Welcome friends! We are talking about the benefits of nature! Sadie Enright is the program director of Stoke Nature Center Preschool here in Cache Valley. She gives us the details of what the structure of the preschool looks like and tells us what people notice about the differences in children when they spend time outside.
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Nicole: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. This is Nicole and Jen and we've got our friend Sadie with us from Stokes Nature Center preschool. Sadie, I'm so interested about this topic and I can't wait to learn more from you about nature. That's cool. That sounds so cool. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Sadie: Thanks for having me! Let’s see, I've lived in Cache Valley for a little over 25 years now and we are in the middle of our 11th year. At the nature preschool. Let's see, I have a biology degree and an elementary education degree from Utah State, so I kind of came here for college and stayed, and I started working for Stokes Nature Center as I guess as an volunteer slash AmeriCorps position. Years ago and loved the vibe of the Nature Center. And I've always kind of loved education anyway, so I saw a place that felt like a good home, but they didn't have a program that I was necessarily drawn to at the time. Uhm. But over the years, taking breaks and moving away and coming back eventually, once I've had, I had two kids of my own and realized how much I loved spending time in nature with them and finding out a little bit more about nature preschools in other parts of the country. I proposed to the Nature Center that we try a nature preschool, so that's. How I got? Involved with the whole program back in 2013.
Nicole: So cool, I love that. Definitely a need and I've heard about it like in other parts of the country and I'm from Canada, so I know that it's like a big thing up there too, but I didn't know that Stokes even had one for a long time. So I'm so glad that you're here with us and you can get the word out more.
Jen: I didn't know there was one until one of our coworkers, her son, went there last year, and so I'm like, I didn't even know. So why don't you tell us a little bit about the preschool and how it runs and what the kids do and all that fun stuff?
Sadie: Sure. Let's see, we start our day at the there's a trailhead. That leads up to the Nature Center and it's about 1/3 of a mile walk up to the Nature Center. So parents drop off or walk with us from the trailhead up to the building, everyday. And then we spend time. So I teach the morning groups. So, for us, we go inside right away cause it's often pretty cold at 9:00 in the morning. So, we'll go inside and spend a little bit of time doing the usual preschool stuff, some jobs and some introductions and things like that. And then we spend some time on a nature topic. So, for example this week, our nature topic is rocks, so we just spent. You know, 10 to 15 minutes looking at some rocks, talking about them, making observations about them, and then we will transition to some free time. So, we base that part of our program on Montessori influence. So mostly child directed, everything's kid sized. When we're inside and so they can choose what they want to do. They are taught to use some of the materials in certain ways and then put them back when they're finished. We really encourage a lot of cooperative play, but also communication amongst. The kids, so they ask each other if they like to play together. They give each other's face if they'd rather not. That kind of thing, so you're working on social skills. When we're closing a. Tight little space like. That, yeah, there's only eight kids at a time. So, eight kids and two teachers. So, it's pretty cozy. We get to know each other really well. So yeah, and then we do a quick yoga, stretching session and snack, which if it's warm enough. We take that out part of our program outside, so go outside, do yoga, wash hands and have our snack outside and then we transition to at least an hour or more of outdoor free play. Which we'll try to kind of reincorporate our literacy and our math skills and real, you know, practical life skills while we're outside and playing and imaginative play. Lots of loose parts, but we definitely let them pick and choose. So we just kind of stand back and let them do their thing and bring some Band-aids if we need to, but we try not to. We try not to be too involved in what their choices are, and we play if we're invited to play. But we also stand back and just to verbal. And then we walked back down the trail. Yeah, it's a good day.
Nicole: But. And that trail is so beautiful, too. I I love walking that. I got to go up there last year for work. We did a group connection up there and I got to see your mud kitchen and everything, but so fun.
Sadie: Yeah, we love that.
Nicole: Yeah, Jen, Jen's looking at me like I'm crazy with the mud kitchen. Can you explain the mud kitchen to her?
Sadie: That's we didn't invent that for sure. Lots of nature play areas and nature preschools have what they call a mud kitchen. So ours happens to be something that was built by one of our board members. And it's just looks like just a big table. But they put a few elements in like there's a sink. Well, there's a base and that we call the sink, and there's a dividing wall, so it can be they can kind of play like they're a kitchen and they're serving things sometimes some of them consider that to be the oven. But then so then we just go to the thrift store, basically and we find pots and pans and old. You know, durable. Things like spoons and ladles and butter knives and things like that, and we just have those as loose parts for the mud kitchen and make mud cakes and soups and all kinds of stuff with whatever's available. So, in the winter is more of a snow kitchen, but this time of year and in the fall it's a mud t kitchen.
Jen: Well that’s fun
Nicole: It's so fun. I love that. OK, I've got three kids of my own. And, like, getting out into nature is so important to me. But what are you noticing with these kiddos that you know, like you talked a lot about play and choices and kind of the Montessori aspect of school but. What do you notice when these kids get to play and explore nature?
Sadie: When I've had other teachers that teach in the traditional setting or a traditional childcare setting, come up and observe a lot of what I hear is. That the kids are way more focused than they expected them to be. So, when they're outside, they'll actually. Spend a lot. Of time doing something very detailed or something very. It takes a lot of imagination and planning and cooperation, and they do that on their own also that the kids don't have a lot of. There's not a lot of aggression and there's not a lot of stress happening, so I just, you know, when we're outside with them. For whatever reason, nature has this settling effect on the kids, so a lot of times they'll go outside, and even though they have a ton of energy and they are quite, you know, they're ready to stretch their legs to run and jump and climb, they're doing it in a very positive environment. So they're rarely told you know, no, you can't do that or, you know, often we'll just kind of remind them, like, remember that that might be slippery or things like that, but they're given a chance to really just put their own social skills and their own challenges to work and we just don't deal with a lot of behavior issues. We do deal with, you know, there's three-year olds and there's five year olds and there's a lot of difference between what they're going to do for, you know. One might be really ready to play with the other and the other does not want to play with anyone, so we kind of have to coach them. On some of those things, but as far as their play, they really manage it themselves and we just rarely have anyone who needs a time out, for example, or that we have to have a chat with folks with their parents and try to come up with some strategies. It happens. I'm not saying that everybody's perfect when they're outside, but. It just seems like. That's the comment I get from a lot of other teachers from other settings is that. Everybody seems to pretty much get along.
Nicole: That's awesome.
Jen: I remember when I was a kid and that's what my mom did was go outside. When the streetlights come on, come back inside. If you need a drink, drink from the hose. And so, I get the importance of being outside. I mean it just. There's a lot of social skills that happen. There's a lot of problem solving that happens. Negotiation. All of those great skills that happen just by just going outside and playing with your friends. And this is my soapbox, as I always say, kids don't do it enough anymore. They're stuck on their devices. And I'm not saying that devices are bad. But you definitely didn't have a nice balance of outside.
Sadie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a lot of those kids go home, and I know. That they're their reward for having a great day at preschool and eating their lunch is, you know, little screen time and that's totally fine because you know they've been outside for so many hours and they really have gotten a good dose of what's healthy as well. And so then they're going and they're doing this other thing. But they do. They do have a good balance and that. That, I agree, is the most important part, yeah.
Nicole: That's awesome. I just, I know that you know, it's hard to take your family out into nature. Sometimes it can feel really daunting. I went to river walk with my kids yesterday, which it like if you live in the valley. And you've been to river walk. That's not a hike. That's just. Oh, nice little walk. You would have thought that the world was ending multiple times. So I know that it can be daunting to like let's get out into nature. Do you have any advice for parents?
Sadie: Yeah, I would say start with your comfort level. So if you're most comfortable when it's warm and sunny and that's when you like being outside, make sure that those days you for sure take your kids out and show them how much you love it and. Have you know, be prepared with them so if it's hot. Make sure they've got on hat and if it's time for sunblock or bug spray, have all those things ready or take them with you. Bring snacks, that kind of thing and really be the positive influence in the in the situation. If they're reluctant, find reasons to make it seem like you're positive. That you're going to have a great time and that. You're excited to explore with them. You don't need to be an expert on anything outside to enjoy being outside. In fact, sometimes it's more fun that way because you're exploring right along with them, but make time for it. Make sure you just. Because you know, it's something that is going to be good for all of you not just the kids, but you 2. Make time for it, even if it's just, you know, we don't have the energy or the time to go for a walk today. Let's sit on the porch for 15 minutes and just be outside and look at the sky and see what's happening outside. And then make time for bigger things too. And the other thing is, I would say don't be afraid to challenge yourself once you've established how much you all love being outside. Then go outside when it's raining, go outside when it's not as warm as you love it to be. You know, put your coat on and go outside and just make observations about how things are different when it's like. When it's not warm and sunny, when it's raining or windy, encourage yourselves to enjoy that part of nature as well and see the changes and then come inside and be proud of yourselves because you did something that you thought you wouldn't enjoy. But you enjoyed it anyway. And I mean if you can be the positive influence as the parent. And. And acknowledge when they're uncomfortable. But remind them that it's OK to be uncomfortable. You know, we we'll still be OK. Yeah. My fingers are cold, too. We're going to just finish this walk. And then when we go inside, it'll be fabulous. You know it's OK to acknowledge that it's not always a super comfortable thing to do but that it's always really fascinating and really fun to explore.
Nicole: Yeah, I love that. And I love how you said, like, don't just go out when it's comfortable and maybe make observations of how your environment is different, like on rainy days or snowy days or whatever it is. I love that I need that because I love to go out when I'm. I'm comfortable, but how much do I push myself outside of my comfort zone, right?
Sadie: Yeah. If you’ll do it, they will do it
Nicole: Yeah, I love well and like even just taking time to splash in the puddles? Like why don't we do that? Because it's uncomfortable, my socks are gonna get wet. But I love that I didn't think. Ohh sorry, go ahead.
Sadie: Just say and you know it's OK to let them do something that you probably wouldn't do. I mean, I don't generally get my socks wet because I do not like that. But if they're going to do that and discover that their socks are wet and decide whether they like that or not for next time, that's the way they figure it out rather than you. You know, what an adult saying or don't do that. You'll get your socks wet. Just let them do it and then. If they didn't like it, then you can say OK, well, maybe next time we won't. We won't splash with those shoes on or, you know, we'll wait until it's warmer and you can wear your sandals or I mean, you can suggest things, but it's great to let them figure those things out on their own because, yeah, I mean, don't let them pick up snakes or things like that but. Things that are OK for them to learn on their own, even though. You know, if it were you. You wouldn't do. That right, those are really valuable lessons and that helps them to figure out what kind of risks they're comfortable with. And that is a skill that is so important for them as they get older and they start to have bigger risks come along in their life, and they have to decide for themselves, like, how comfortable am I with this should I try it? What? What's gonna happen if I try it? Should I not try it? Would I rather watch someone else do it first and then decide if I want to do that? You know, kids have varying levels of comfort with risk, but it's important for them to figure that out for themselves.
Nicole: Yeah, that's awesome. It sounds like you guys are very like focused on observations and choices and letting them, you know, have that for themselves because they are people. They're just little. But I'm just thinking about like, you know, a lot of times I'll get clients asking me, like, well, what do they need to learn by this age or what should they be able to do by this age. And I always go back to, like, we want them to be able to play. We want them to be able, like, even as they're learning, like having fun while they're learning, because play is their job right now. And it sounds like you guys fully embrace that.
Sadie: Yes, absolutely. They, even what we would consider what we call works in the Montessori. System. It's not, it's still play. It's just play that really maybe works on their fine motor skills or play that kind of intentionally but unintentionally teaches them to problem solve or just helps them build skills that are then going to be important for the next set of skills that they need to say in kindergarten or when they're going home and doing things that you know with their families or things like that. So even though it's sometimes it's a little more structured. It's definitely still play and it's still the best way for them to learn.
Jen: Yeah, I as you were talking about risk, I mean, I was just thinking. You know, if we can get our kids to take risks when the price is small, they'll learn to do it when they're older, they'll learn that process of, oh, OK, I need to go through this process to help me decide if this is a good risk or one that I don't want to take because the consequences aren't good. So I love that part of allowing kids to take some risks to figure out that process for them.
Sadie: Yeah, absolutely. There's definitely. But it's really valuable and there's things in your life that you realize that you didn't think that hard about it, but if you know when you first made that decision, you probably did think really hard about it. Like when you drive your car, you, it's instinct almost now, but. It's a very risky thing to do and you needed to be comfortable with it in order to feel like you could learn it. And so yeah, I mean the like you said, the kind of consequences that are acceptable at this age. It's OK because. I mean, yeah, I might trip and fall and get a scraped knee. I might not. Yeah, I'm OK with that. If I do so, yeah. And making those decisions now, it's super important to be able to. Yeah. Go through those kind of levels of thought, yeah.
Nicole: OK. Can we talk logistics for a minute? Because I'm thinking of rainy days, snowy days, just cold yucky days. I used to teach preschool too, and the rainy days were so hard because we didn't go outside. What does that look like for you guys? I imagine it's different.
Sadie: Yeah, it looks like gear. One of the most important things about. Organizing our programs as the director, my job is to make sure that parents are prepared. So that their kids are prepared. So as soon as someone registers, you know the summer before their first year at school, I send out a lot of information about here's what you can do to make sure your kid is physically prepared. Take them on some longer walks, make sure that their endurance is at least 1/3 of a mile, so that when they're walking on the trail with us, we walk slowly. But I still need them to be OK with. Something you know it taking us 20 minutes to walk to school and so things like that. Prepping yourself physically and prepping. Prepping your kids physically, but then I also give them a huge list of the best clothing that they can have when the time comes. And we start ordering rain suits in July because we're going to need them in October, but I don't want anybody waiting until October to try and find one because they won't find one. So yeah, preparation. Lots of layers, definitely waterproof layers at the preschool, we have lots of extra stuff that kid size, so that if anybody shows up without it, it's not going to ruin their day. They can borrow stuff and then bring it back so we have boots and we have these full body suits that are coated in there. This big zip up thing that you step into and completely waterproof. So yeah, I just and then so I send out this list and then at orientation when parents come, we have actual physical examples of all of these types of clothing that really should be looking for their kids so. That we're always comfortable and when it's really cold, which sometimes you know it's around 0° when. We get to school. Extremely cold. We do things like those little instant hand and toe warmers. I keep those in my backpack and we have a huge box of them at the preschool and we learn to watch for kids that are starting to feel uncomfortable. And when you get to know them because there's only eight of them. So, you just learn to see like when they start to. Shut down because they're too cold. And they need to move around and you need to give them some toe warmers, so. You take them inside, take off their boots, get their feet warmed up, put those toe warmers in their boots. And then, yeah, like OK, now we can go play, you know, so keep it positive. It's still just we watch for it. But we never ever say bad weather. We always just say. It's raining or it's windy or man it is cold today. But we always look at it as just. Another day at preschool and we just keep ourselves comfortable. I really do put a lot on the parents. If you sign up for our preschool, you take on a pretty high level of responsibility as the parent to show up with a kid who is prepared because we don't go indoors immediately. We have to make that 20 minute walk, right? They need to be ready.
Jen: And here in Logan, you're at the mouth of that Canyon. So it's it is cold. I remember going to school up there at USU. It's cold.
Sadie: It's always windy and in the winter it's about 10° colder than it is in town. Yeah, and we're in the shade all winter. We don't get any sun so it's a challenging location. But I rarely have anybody say, oh, it's just too much. I think we've had one person withdraw because their child just did not like it. Also, they started in January instead of in August.
Nicole: Ohh. No time to acclimate.
Sadie: Exactly. They didn't get you that nice cooling down time, so. Yeah, that was a rough one, but otherwise, I've always been able to help people make sure that their kiddos are comfortable.
Jen: It's a beautiful space, beautiful space.
Nicole: It is. It really is. Do you guys do snowshoeing or anything like are there some things like that? What are some fun things that you guys do up there
Sadie: Yeah, let's see. You know, when the river is low enough. We way in it a lot so kids can come in. Their waterproof boots. Or they can just get their shoes wet, whichever they prefer. So we do a lot of just using whatever is most fun at the time. So yeah, we just take advantage of the river, when it's low enough and then when fall comes, we just make huge piles of leaves with Rakes and kids do all kinds of burying themselves and jumping in. And then when the snow comes. We dig tons of snowed caves and, you know, build snowmen when it's possible. We have sleds and we just try to stay as active as possible when we're outside, when it's chilly. So, we just try to make sure there's just always something fun for everybody, even the kids who might not usually be as active as the others, and yes, we have. So, we have really small snow shoes that they can try. Some love it in some wear them for two minutes and they're like, take these things off so. You know you're not always strikes for a hit for everybody, but that's OK. Let's see what else I mean. We just, we are always doing something. So, we have bug Nets for when the insects start, insects start to show back up in the spring. We do a lot of bird watching and we feed the birds so that they'll come close and we learn to identify the ones that are always there. Yeah, and we just we do egg hunts. We learn about camouflage. So then we hide things and see if they're camouflaged and we learn about all kinds of stuff. It's just. There's never a lack of stuff to do.
Nicole: Sure, I'm sure you get tracks that you can look at and decide what animal. It is.
Sadie: Yeah. Last year we had a moose that had come through
Nicole: Ohh really that’s so fun
Sadie: So, we had. Once we figured out that it wasn't aggressive, it was fun. The first few times we thought we were like ohh that’s a big animal. So we gave it lots of space called DWR and them to come and have a look and decide if they thought that it needed to be relocated. But no, he it was a male and he was just kind of looking for somewhere to hang out and he did not pay any attention at all. So we got to follow his packs every morning and see where he had gone and then find his piles of scat. And yeah, see where he had nibbled on the branches? And so yeah, that was pretty cool. And then we always have raccoon tracks, and we usually have ducks when the ducks. Are around, yeah. So yeah, there's a lot of things to remember, especially the kids that come back, that for another year, so they'll remember. Ohh yeah, when we see it again, yeah.
Nicole: That's so cool. And they're learning like good, valuable life skills, too. So awesome. I remember like, that was always my favorite field trip was this place called Jaffa. And it was a lot like that. And we would snowshoe out to the Maple trees and learn how to tap a Maple tree. And then. Collect the sap and then we would go back to the to the Hut. And my Canadians coming out and we would make Maple candy that they had already collected. So, yeah, just fun. But those are like core memories, you know, just being outside and learning how to do stuff like that. So.
Sadie: Yeah, I run into kids. You know, a year or two beyond, once they've moved on to kindergarten or first grade and they'll still. Their parents will, they will still tell me something that they especially remember from preschool. So that's kind of fun.
Nicole: Yeah, you're helping them create some core memories.
Sadie: I hope so. I hope that it's something that instills. A comfort and a familiarity with nature so that as they get older, they're not afraid to go explore new areas or come back to where they were comfortable and just really love it and want to protect it.
Nicole: Yeah, that's awesome. I love that.
Jen: Those are some of my best memories of growing up. I grew up in Arizona. And so every summer we would go camping for at least a week. Two weeks at a time, and those are my most favorite memories of getting the canoe and going out on the lake and going fishing. So, I really think nature is such an important part and of kids growing up and just learning. So even in school, I think some of my favorite classes were the ones where the teachers would take us outside. I had a fifth grade teacher that half of his room was all these different reptiles. So he would hand us a big old packet and say go figure out this animal here. Go get this gecko. And figure it out. And I loved that. I just wish they did more. Of that nowadays.
Sadie: Yeah. Yeah. When I talk with teachers, I think one of the main things that. I try to encourage is just to remember that almost everything that you do in the classroom, you could also do outside. There's not that many things that students do indoors that they couldn't just take outside and do. And I mean, even if they're just expected to read for a little while or you're needing to directly teach them something. If something that you think you could just do outdoors, try to make sure that you remember to do that even if it's not every day, because I realize that, you know, logistics can be difficult for that in a conventional school but. As often as you can, and just to again to try to help them feel comfortable outside and realize that. It's inviting and that it's part of where they live and what's all around them. It's not. It doesn't need to be something that you've been planning for weeks and that you're all going to go together. And then you're going to. Write a paper about it or something. Like that with me, you know. Hey, let's go outside for math today or whatever it is.
Nicole: Yeah, yeah. We talk a lot about, like, emotional regulation and that's a huge one is like just go for a walk or go outside and feel the sun on your skin or if it's cold, you know, just feel it and just really helpful for your regulation of your body and emotions.
Sadie: It really is. And there's studies that show that regulating emotions is easier outdoors for all ages, but especially for kids, because they just really need sometimes something to kind of get them out of whatever state they're in. And sometimes nature just really instantly can do that.
Nicole: Yeah, I was having a bad day last week and I came into Jen’s office and I was like, I was so dysregulated. And as soon as I came in, she had the window open. I felt the air on me. I'm like, OK, OK yeah.
Sadie: Yeah, my kids definitely grew up being told. You need to just step outside for a minute, you know and I think I did too. I remember my mom telling me just go outside and you don't realize what a change it makes in your and just how you're feeling and your emotions and in the levels of stress that you're experiencing.
Jen: I'm thinking back to my childhood and then my mom would say go outside, don't come back in. Just come back in if you have to use restroom or lunch, but otherwise stay out there and you know what I'm thinking to myself. I don't remember getting in fights. With my brothers or sisters. It was when we were indoors. Yeah, that's when the fights came.
Sadie: Yeah, that's definitely a common a common experience amongst so many people. It's just that when you're outside, things seem to just. I don't know why they just maybe have more space or you just. You just work it out.
Jen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we want to thank you so much for coming and being on the podcast and sharing this important information with us and our listeners. I hope that everybody has been able to get some good information and hopefully this summer you get outside and you explore and have some fun. And maybe if you're going to a new place on vacation, go out and explore there as well. And that's one of my favorite things. When they go to different states is let's see what the state. As outside or I always love the smells. Every state has a different smell. So, thank you so much. And we want to remind you to be patient and kind with yourself. And we will see you back here next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place Podcast. If you would like to reach us, you can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly – The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is thefamilyplaceyouutah.org if you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we'd love to see you there.
Subject Resources:
1. Stokes Nature Center Preschool: https://logannature.org/nature-preschool
2. Stokes Nature Center: https://logannature.org/
3. "No Such Thing as Bad Weather" Book: https://a.co/d/5BvFbsI
4. Oaki Suit: https://a.co/d/i8FWbGV
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