We all experience hardships in our journey of life. Opening up and becoming vulnerable to talk about these hardships is not always easy. We are lucky enough to have Camille here to share her story about a turbulent marriage, step-parenting struggles, as well as learning about gas lighting. There are plenty of great tips through out her story. Camille, Jen, and, Hilary, explore great books, classes, similarities, and more! Don't miss this great episode.
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hillary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast today. We have a guest with us today to share another story of resilience which we've said before, Jen and I have both made comments before about how this is our favorite segment. We love hearing these stories and these experiences and being able to learn from them. So, we are excited to introduce Camille here and as our guest and I'm just gonna go ahead and turn it over to her and let her tell a little bit about herself. So go ahead, Camille.
Camille: Hi, my name is Camille, and I am, I went to Utah State, so I graduated way back when. I have a degree in social work from Utah State. So, go Aggies, right? I work for a nonprofit youth mentoring program that I have a job that I love, and I am married. I have three-step kids and their ages; we have twins that are 17 and we have a 10-year-old. I don't have any bio kids, but we have them full time so they're with us quite a bit. Trying to think what else. That is a little bit of an overview. I'm the oldest of 6, so I have four younger brothers and a younger sister, and we're all pretty close and I feel, having that growing up as the oldest, I really have I was always the super responsible one and so that has really helped. I think as I've gone into step parenting. So, my husband and I were celebrating our four-year anniversary next month. So, we're excited about that. And prior to that, I was a stepmom as well. I was married to my ex-husband, and we were married five years and he had five kids from his first marriage. And so overnight, I at the age of 40, overnight, I became a wife, a stepmom, I moved to a new town, and it was a small rural town that I moved to and so that was a big change, but a lot of changes. When I hit 40 and so I. Have some things like some things that were hard and that I had gone through and just being able to learn from that first experience and take it into my second marriage has been pretty amazing. So, it made all the really hard a little bit more worthwhile so.
Hilary: Well, perfect. Well, I gotta tell you, I am one of six as well too. But I'm right in the middle, so I didn't get the responsibility gene. I got the “Um I'm gonna let the older ones take care of everything and I'm gonna slide I unnoticed and cause a lot of havoc when my parents aren't paying attention.” So, we all have different roles to play.
Camille: That is so true, isn't it?
Hilary: Well, that's awesome. Well, Camille. You know, as Camille shared just a small extent. She's gonna talk to us a little bit about her experience with divorce and with step parenting, because we know that being in a stepfamily situation is unique and comes with its own set of challenges oftentimes where you can't necessarily parent the way that you usually parent in maybe what we refer to as a traditional setting, so Camille, I'm gonna turn it to you and just tell us a little bit about your journey and your experience, maybe starting from the beginning, if you will.
Camille: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, like I said, I did not get married until I was quite a bit older. So, I was 41 when I actually got married, a funny thing about me is when I turned 40, I was like, you know, I just, and I wasn't dating anyone. I was like, I deserve to be able to register for gifts. And so, we I threw, my friends and I, we threw me a kind of a reception only like celebrating Singlehood, so I registered for gifts. It was so amazing. And then, like, three months later, I met my ex-husband and I felt really bad that people had got me all of these gifts and. You know. So anyway, that was just a funny part of my story. But so, I met my ex-husband online and we started dating. He, like I said, lived in Salt Lake. He lived in a different town about 45 minutes away. And he had, I knew he had five kids. So. And at first, I was like, OK, that's a lot, right? But I can do hard things. I'm the oldest. I was a nanny prior, like when I was younger. I was a nanny. And so like, I had a lot of experience with kids. I have a degree in social work. I was like, I got this no big deal. Right? And so. One thing looking back that I would have done differently is, I met his kids right off the bat, so I think I met him. We went out to dinner, and I remember either the next day or later that night I went back to his house, and we met the kids right away and for me and for them I think that was really difficult because they like. I fell in love with them instantly. They were just the cutest. Like so warm and welcoming. But it also put a lot of pressure on me in the dating situation. Right. And, you know, a couple of dates in. I remember the oldest girl said, “are you gonna marry my dad? We really want. To marry my dad.” And so I had kind of developed this relationship with them, so looking back, I feel like I fell in love with the kids, but not necessarily my ex-husband. I mean, I did eventually, but I think the kids became a very large part of our dating relationship.
Hilary: Definitely a big push. Yeah. You know, in that.
Camille: Yeah. Yeah. And even, you know, even when he proposed to me, the kids were all there. And I remember feeling a little pressure. Like, OK, I think I want to say yes, but now I have all five kids, like staring at me like we really want you to be in our family. And so, so looking back, I would do that differently. And I did with my second marriage. But so. And like I said, he lived in a different town. So I. So where I was living and after our wedding, I moved out into his home, which I think a lot of bio parents don't realize how hard it is to move into somebody else's home when you get married, when you know they have kids already. They've lived there for years. It really did feel like I was moving into his home and it wasn't our home, so that was a little bit difficult. But really, where things got hard was. You know, he was very shy. I mean, we laughed a lot together. We had a similar sense of humor, but I could tell on our honeymoon something was different. So and he became very aloof and very disengaged for me, and I remember calling a friend on my honeymoon. And in tears, saying like, I don't know what is wrong. Like he is acting like I don't even exist. Like, what is this normal and you know when you haven't been married before, you don't know really what's normal and what's not. And you know growing up my I love both my parents but they did not have a marriage that I would want to emulate like they had a very difficult relationship and it wasn't super healthy and so I didn't really, like it was hard to know what was normal and what was not and so. So that was kind of the first thing and then we got back and some things that had changed was again, he was very, very distant and he became kind of controlling about the environment and so I wasn't allowed to put anything on the walls or change anything in the home and that was hard because like I said, I had given up. I had sold all my furniture. I'd given up everything to move out there and so, that became kind of a difficult aspect of it, but probably a month into the relationship I was really close with. Like I said, the kids, there's five of them. So I was close with four of them and the three youngest I was really, really close with. And so they were under the age of, I think 11 when we first got married. And but the second oldest son he, his behavior started to change once I moved in. And so he started to get really angry towards me and there was one night I was there alone. My husband was my ex-husband, was gone and it was just me and the little the three youngest and him.
And he came out and tried to physically attack me. He started yelling that he wished I was dead and and this he at the time he was 13 and I thought I am loving this 13 year old like what is going on and but then he had gone into his room, he took a rope. And tried to take his own life while I was there and I that in itself was really traumatic for me. And I like and again, I have a social work background, but things are different when it's you're in that situation. Right. And so I think I know how to handle if someone else came to me, but being in that situation myself. I wasn't sure and right as I was getting the rope away from him, my ex-husband came in and I tried to tell him what the situation was and he basically said, well, if you were nicer to him, you he wouldn't have done this. If you weren't so demanding, he wouldn't be yelling at you and right away. I was like, OK, there is something wrong. Like this is not what I signed up for. Like I don't know what is going on and so really from there and that like I said, that was just a couple of months into it, but I did not feel safe at the home and part of it was there was some shame on my end that I felt like I am like this 13 year old kid is like, really ruling my existence right now, and it was very scary. And eventually I was able to talk my ex-husband into getting some therapy. And so we started going to a therapist. And I remember her telling me. And after telling my story to her, I remember her telling me. “Have you ever heard of gaslighting?” And I was like, “no, no.” And I had. And she explained it. And basically, you know, I'm not a psychologist, so I can't give you the exact definition. But basically it's that emotional manipulation to make you doubt yourself. So what I was hearing from my ex-husband was. “Well, if you were nicer, this wouldn't have happened”, “if you weren't so demanding, this wouldn't have happened”, like “we were fine before you came.” Like, “he's never done this before” and it just was that piled on top of each other. And that's all I heard. And at the time, I thought. I'm only into this marriage not even a year, right? Like. How could this be happening? So I kind of dismissed it. I was like, no, no, no. If I mean I was single so long and I'm not used to living with a bunch of other people. So maybe the fault is on mine and it got to the point where things with this child were so bad that he was when he would go to his moms house. His bio mom’s house, he would tell her that he wanted to kill me.
And I I heard probably on a daily basis when he was at our house like “I just wish you would die. My life would be better if you would just die” and he would tell his siblings that. And so they became very afraid for me and the 2 girls became very attached to me. They wouldn't, you know, they really were by my side all the time. And as we were going to this therapist, things didn't seem to get better, they got worse, and I don't think it was the therapist I thought she was great. I really like. I loved her, but I think it was partially I was not ready to hear that right. I was not in a place where I felt like I was ready to accept that. Maybe I was a victim, right? That's definitely hard to think about. So we did that for a little bit. Couple of months later, you know and I kept begging my ex-husband to get help for this kid and it was like well, “no, no, we didn't have a problem. I think it's all in your head like maybe you're the one with the problem”. I heard that a lot and it it got to the point where like I was sleeping at night with the door locked to the bedroom cuz I just was so fearful. Like I didn't know what this kid was gonna do, and eventually, interestingly enough, the person who got help for him and help for me was not my ex-husband. It was his ex-wife. So his ex-wife called up my ex-husband and said “I am so afraid for Camille right now. We need to get some help for our son.” And so he was admitted into an inpatient treatment center and for a couple of weeks at least, I felt safe in the home. But then, as you know, when kids or adults are put on medication, the first med doesn't always work, right? And so it his violence towards me actually got worse. And it got to the point, you know, where I many times I would say like “why am I still here?” But these little kids, I felt like these little kids need me, right. And I can see why a lot of parents stay together and really abusive relationships. For the kids, because you do have these, these children that are depending on you. And you know, I remember sitting in, like, the car with the 2 girls and they would cry and tell me all their problems and say, “you aren't gonna leave us. Are you? Like, you won't ever leave us, will you?” So I had that extra like. “No, of course. I'm not gonna leave you.” Right, but. And so eventually, my ex-husband, he refused to go to any more therapy. And, and I was like ohh. And we found that child, some medication that was somewhat working. So things got a little better in that regard. But it was never. It was the gaslighting continued, right? And then we a couple of years into it, it again was the constantly well, we didn't have these problems before you came like. Don't you think you're the problem? You know? And I've always been really close with my family. And he was very much. “Why do you have to do everything with your family?”, Like “they don't even like you? Do you think they really like you?” or I would hear that, “your friends don't. Do you really think they're your friends?”
And so, you know, I came into the relationship like I would consider myself independent, like I've had a career. I had employees that worked under me, like I had always considered myself somebody who is. Independent and strong and, but when you're told that so many times that maybe you're the problem, you start to think that you are the problem. And so what would happen is I started then to go overboard with being nice and you know no boundaries. Nothing because I was like, well, if the problem's me. Then maybe I shouldn't be so critical. Maybe I shouldn't. And by critical, you know, one of the kids was failing school and I kept saying well they’re in third grade, they shouldn't be getting F's like maybe we should do something about this. And it was like, no, no, no. You're just making it into a bigger deal than it is. So it was all that. And then again. So there was that going on. And then things got bad again with this child. And so this time my ex-husband said, well, why don't you two go to therapy to work out your issues. So I was going to therapy once a week with this 14 year old kid who wanted me dead and there was no going to therapy with his mom or his dad, it was me every week and I would go in there and I'd have to listen to how much he hated me and what an awful person I was. But there was no resolution because then they would pull in my ex-husband and they would kind of talk to him about things we could try at home. But if I had no support, the things, the tools they were giving me, I couldn't really use. Right and so. I finally after a couple of months of that, I finally just said, you know, I'm done. This is not working. And this whole time like, and I've heard this in stories that you have shared before on your podcast, is that you feel like you are alone and there is a stigma of, like, I don't want to share to people that this is really hard. Right. So from the outside, we looked fine. You know, like I would go to church every Sunday with a big smile on my face. People had no clue. Right. And I think for me during that time that was so difficult because I didn't want to tell my family because. Like they already I'm sure was like, what are you thinking marrying a guy with five kids? Right. So there was, like, you should have known, is what I perceived they would say. Right. And I think that happens a lot when you're suffering you. Perceive what other people are going to, how they're going to react and not give them the chance to react. Right. And so I had two friends that I cried to all the time about it, but other than that, like I did not talk to anybody and I kept thinking like this is not what marriage is supposed to be like. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be awful. And then I started to believe, well, maybe you're just bad at marriage. Like cause that is the message I kept hearing is maybe you just weren't cut out for marriage. Like maybe this is not for you. And so probably year four, I it I had just been worn down so much that I like my sister had put it this way. She's like you have lost your sparkle. You've always been so energetic and happy and all you are is like there's something different about you. And so at that point, I was like, OK. I cannot hide this anymore. People are making comments. I would go to work and people would say oh, how's your family and I. And just. Burst into tears, right? Like I couldn't control it anymore.
And so. I remember talking to one of my brother in laws and he had gone through a divorce prior to marrying my sister and he had asked one day. He's like, can I just give you some advice? And I said sure like go ahead. And he told me a little bit about his story. And he had said, you know. Like what got me through that is you and how I eventually decided that I needed to leave was you have to decide what is your bottom line? What is the bottom line of things you will accept and once your partner hits that, then you can walk away knowing you've done everything you can, right? And I'm sure it was phrased much better than that, but really that advice changed something in me that was like, OK. Like it kind of gave me permission. Like it's OK. You could leave this if it's not working out. And so I had gone to my ex-husband and said I think we need to give therapy another try. And after some prayer my bottom line was, if you stop trying to make this marriage work, we are done and by stop trying, that means you're gonna go to counseling with me. We're gonna do everything we can to make this marriage work. And so we start seeing another therapist. Who, again, I adored this woman and she as we started going, she'd asked to meet with me alone. And again she said I feel like you are the victim of gaslighting. And I'm like, oh, I've heard that before. And so we talked a little bit about that. And she's, like. And what you're living through with your stepson is abuse. And that is not OK and I fear for your safety is what she said. And I was like, here's this therapist who was afraid for my safety. And so that was a real wake up call. And. And so at that point. We've gone a couple of times and at that point my ex-husband had said no, this is stupid. I don't. I don't want to go anymore. I was like, OK, Are you sure you don't wanna go? And so I remember talking and my big concern again with, you know, going through divorce is there's a lot of stigma around it. I was already older and married and I thought, OK, this is my one shot. I'm done right. And we had these kids that the younger three I was super close to and. At that time, my dad also was hospitalized and he ended up passing away, and so about two months before I filed for divorce, my dad had passed away and I had seen how oh and the therapist had also said I think your husband at the time has a pretty severe attachment disorder and borderline personality disorder. Again, I was like, how did I not see these things when they were dating? But you know, and I do, I think. Was abusing me on purpose? No, I think that is part of the mental illness. Right? And so I had to really think about that.
But it doesn't mean I needed to be in that situation and accept the abuse. And so there was one day we had celebrated one of the kids birthdays. The next, the night before I came home from work and my ex-husband looked at me and said I think we need to separate and it came out of nowhere and I was like. Are you sure? And he's like, yeah, I think so. And I was like, OK, I'm done. And that is how we ended it. The hardest part for me was having to tell the kids cause the time they were at their moms house. And so as a step parent, this is one of the risks you take when you become a step parent. Is you can pour your whole heart and soul into kids, but they are not legally yours, and so whether or not I ever saw them again is on them, right? And so that was really hard like. It not only was I ending a marriage, I was ending, basically a parenthood, you know, like I was ending that in my mind. I was ending that relationship and I, thankfully, you know I had asked my ex-husband. I'm like, can I talk to the kids and let them know what's going on and just say I love you and because I don't think even they saw it coming. And so I did that and interestingly enough, I mean, five years later, I just a week ago got a message from the youngest one. And so four of the five still keep in touch with me, which I am very grateful for. But it was hard and I think again. No, I didn't have biological children of my own, but I had these children that I had invested, really my heart and soul, and that and that was really difficult and it was difficult coming, telling people. So I think that was another hard part is, you know, growing up, I always heard, oh, divorce is the easy way out. I will tell you I don't know one person who's gone through a divorce. Who said yeah, that was so easy. I chose the easy path. Right, because that, that's not true, right. It was the hardest thing I'd ever had to go through. But luckily I was surrounded by like all the I was surrounded by people who I had. Falsely judge them thinking of how they would react to the situation. And you know, when I did tell my my family, all they did was come give me a hug and just be like we're so glad to have you back and. And so that was super helpful. And so, I mean that is the story in a nutshell. A long nutshell but, but after that I thought I'm never gonna get married again. I, No, this is not for me. Like I was so much happier single, like, no. And I don't know how it happened, but I had joined a Facebook group for people who had gone through a divorce. And like I don't remember joining it anything and I had started, it was nice to have kind of a community of people who had been through a similar thing, right. Because it's not like when you go to work, you talk about divorce or you go to church, you talk about divorce. Like, so it was nice to have a little community of people, but it, you also. And I feel like this with the step parenting community as well, like. Sometimes they can be very negative and they can bring you down instead of lift you up right? And I didn't need to be brought down. I wanted to be lifted up. And like, hey, I see you. I hear that it was hard like let's move forward. And there was a guy who was always posting, like, super uplifting things.
And I was like, who is this guy? And so we started messaging back and forth and just started off friends. So we would hang out as friends. And we did that for several months and. I didn't meet his kids. You know, it was just like this friendship and that friendship turned into something more. And we dated officially for a couple months, and then I met his kids. And I will tell you that was a game changer. And there were and I what I was attracted to him about is he felt like he. I felt like he was always trying to learn and better himself. And I have always been that type of person as well. And so like, he had gone to therapy. His kids were in therapy like. And so I was really attracted to somebody who was really trying to do better. And so there were a couple of books that we read together that were, I would totally recommend. That helped that second time dating, so and one was saving your second marriage before it starts and that I'm like, why didn't I have that book with my first marriage? It was so good. But yeah. So I'm a much better step parent, 100%. Much better step parent. This time around, and because I went in with different expectations, I think you know, and I think this gets lost a lot is as a step parent, it's easy just to focus on how hard it is for you right, but it's not easy to focus on how hard it is for the kids. I mean, they had a stranger move into their house, start making food, start like making new rules. Like all of that, that that is so hard on kids and I think. You know, kids act out because they also are going through this difficult problem, right? And this difficult change. And so having a lot of that background for my first marriage, I like, I think I definitely came in with more realistic expectation. And having been able to go through therapy and go through, you know, studying on my own, we had gone to a couple of step parenting conferences. And so I felt like this second time around, I really came in armed with more tools than I had before.
Hilary: I'm taking it all in, Camille
Camille: Sorry, that was a lot.
Hilary: Because this is an amazing story that you have shared, and I think that your experience and what you've shared here is going to help so many people. You have, I, I've been jotting down meticulous notes of all the things that I'm like. That was a good tip, that was a fantastic tip, that was an amazing thing that was shared and I'm hoping that our listeners are doing that same thing because truly you've shared so many insightful, Insightful comments today, I just keep going back to this idea that you mentioned at the very beginning when you were speaking on behalf of your parents growing up and not necessarily knowing what was normal and what wasn't normal. And I love that we have a platform like this and we're getting better at it in our society. We're obviously not the only platform. But we're getting better at talking about what a healthy relationship looks like. And so I think there are many people that are in that same boat as you that are like I didn't know I made the, you know I'm I'm making the assumption this is how everybody lives behind closed doors.
Camille: I just thought marriage was hard and you were meant to be miserable like I legit thought that right.
Hilary: Yeah. And so I think that that. Conversations like this are so powerful cause it's letting people know about concepts like gaslighting and manipulation and emotional abuse and things that aren't normal. But many people see as the normal for them. So just that in and of itself, helping us to understand what a healthy relationship looks like. Like thank you for providing that. For us today.
Camille: Well, you are welcome. And it's been like, really my husband and I talk all the time now that, like we want to provide that example to our kids. Right, so. If there is something we are upset about, like I never saw my parents resolve anything. So you know, like it's really important for me to sit down with the kids if they hear us getting a little testy with each other or whatever it is to say. “Yeah, your dad and I disagreed on this, but we were able to listen to each other and it we worked it out.” And so we work really hard I think on that aspect as well. But it, it really it, I mean step parenting. Is hard, like parenting in general has got to be super hard. I think step parenting adds just a different layer to that because you do all the parental things, but you don't in the end get the credit. That sounds bad, but, but you know like. It's always really awkward when you tell people you're a stepparent because. I feel like there's some judgment there and they say, oh, well, you call them your step kids, right? They're your kids. They're and I'm like. Well, yes and no. Like they are kids that I care about, and I love, and I would do anything for, but they also have a biological mother. They also have a biological parent and I am in no way trying to take that biological parents place, right. And so I always, it, there is still a lot of judgment, I think with step parenting and how you talk about that. And and I really I sat down with the kids and I. Said what do you want to call me like? How do you want me to refer to you? And at first it was like you can call your step kids, great. And the other day the youngest was like. “You can call me your son.” And I was like, “OK, great son”, you know. And so we we did that, but it's hard and there are still things that are hard for me as a stepparent. It really I think that jealousy aspect and I have never been a jealous person ever. But when you are raising somebody else's child and at the end of the day they want their biological parent regardless, like it breaks your heart a little bit, you know, and in both situations as a stepparent with my ex and now. I've had to listen to the kids cry on my shoulder about how sad they are that their parents got divorced. That is hard because you know, as the adult, like, no, they should never have been together. No, I mean it wasn't healthy. But you don't wanna tell a kid that and you don't want to discount their feelings either. So really, it requires a lot of listening and empathy and I, you know, and really those are the times that I feel is the hardest is when they're crying to you and wishing their parents were back together. And but they love you, so they want you to live with them as well, right? And so sometimes I get it's hard to not be a little jealous like I kind of wish you were my kids. But you're not your kids that I just love and adore. But you have a biological parent, and so I've seen friends of mine who have come in to try and take over the role of the biological parent. I did that probably in my first marriage at the beginning. Like, you will listen to me. I'm your parent and it didn't work. It really didn't work. And so I learned that and that has been really helpful. The other thing with step parenting that I have been really helpful is you know my kids now they're biological mom. She has some mental health issues. She's very open with the kids about them. Would I hang out with her on my own? No, but do I respect her and know that she's trying her best? Yes, and I respect the fact that you know, despite the things that she is going with, she, you know, we have full custody of them. She knew the best place for the kids were with their dad. That and right there that, that to me was like, OK, like she really does care about her kids, whether however she shows it. And but when we were first dating and when my husband told her that we were getting serious, she's like, well, I wanna meet her. I was like, I don't wanna meet your ex-wife. That is so weird. I had to kind of like. OK, what's going to be in the best interest for the kids if we get along and that we can, you know, work together and they can see us together. And so, I did. I went and met her, and it was awkward, and it was not pleasant. Not because she's not a fine person, but it just was a really awkward situation. But you know you do that as a stepparent and you are thrown into all sorts of really awkward situations. And you, that's part of the job, that is also hard, but you know again it's showing those kids that healthy what a healthy relationship can look like.
Hilary: Yeah. And Jen, you can speak to this because Jen's been the instructor of our stepfamily course for many years. But I think a stepfamily situation, the tricky thing with it is. Every situation is different and like you said, there are some kids that are going to openly say, call me your son and others that may refer to as I just want to be called stepson or just call me by my name. And I think even within the same family setting, yeah, you're going to have kids that are like, no, I want this, or I want this, or these avoid doing this.
Camille: Yeah, yeah.
Hilary: And but I love I mean and. But I think you. You nailed the answer when you said. It's all about the kids. I mean, as we're maneuvering this situation, although obviously I am a big part of this.
Camille: Yeah, right.
Hilary: And that's my life and it's an adjustment, but these decisions I'm making need to be based on the best interests of the child.
Camille: Yeah.
Hilary: So, we keep going back to that idea of what's going to work best for them. It may not necessarily be what I want or maybe even what I think is best, but what's best for them.
Camille: Yeah. No, that is that is so true. I know when I, my kids, well, my husband's a computer programmer and the kids are all very computer kids. I cannot stand computer games. I don't play any of them. I'm like, at the end of the day, I want nothing to do with my computer. And so, when we first got married, it was really hard for me to see how much. How much time they spent on their computer and not with the situation I talked to my husband. We, you know, and I thought I can't come in here and say we're starting to limit your screens starting today because it's not good for you like you have to adjust to their schedule too. And again, would it be the best thing for them to come in and turn off all their screens and change up all their food that they've been used to eating? And you know, all that? No. So, it's kind of trying to blend, you know, what they were doing before with what you need as well.
Jen: I relate a lot with you because I am a stepparent as well and had no biological children prior to us getting married and so. I think as Hilary mentioned, the stepfamily class, I had probably been teaching that for a good six years prior to meeting my husband and that was like a game changer because I already had tools and skills to go into it. It was, It still hard. Is it still hard? Absolutely. Because there are a lot of things with my stepdaughter. I have two and one is in her mid 20s and she didn't want anything to do with me and I'm like, that's all right. And she's like, I don't need another mom. And I said, I don't need to be your mother. I just need to be. I want you to know that I'm here for you and that I love you. Nonetheless, and so then his youngest one was 9 at the time and. And it was like, nope, you call me stepdaughter, but we had a really great relationship, but she chose that she wanted. This is my stepmom. This is my stepdaughter, and it is really doing what is best for those kids taking the High Road, even though it's super hard sometimes.
Camille: Yeah, it is very, very difficult for sure and. Yeah, but I I think when you when you have a good partner, so you know and I would encourage anybody who is going into any kind of blended situation to get some tools right from the beginning. Instead of just thinking like I did the first time like I got this, I can handle it, you know, because it is different and you know, you probably can't handle it on your own. I mean, maybe you can but.
Jen: Well, I think we as stepparents have to come to the realization that this is, you know, a marriage between me and my husband, but there is this third person that is in the background and sometimes they're great and they're easy to work with and sometimes they're not, and that's a hard realization. But I also agree with what you were saying about your second marriage and meeting the kids later.
Camille: Yeah.
Jen: That was one thing that I kept thinking, I wanna meet these kids because I love this man and, I wanna meet the kids. And he was really smart and saying, nope, you're not gonna meet my kids until I know for sure. This is solid because I don't want them meeting lots of people and getting their hopes up or whatnot, and so taking that time to build that foundation between you and your spouse. I loved that you brought that up.
Camille: Yeah, no 100% made a difference, you know. And so, I and I think we read that in one of our books or one of our therapists had said that and it's interesting that my husband and I both saw the same counselor with our exes. But in two different towns, so the counselor worked part time in this small area that I was living in, and he saw her in Salt Lake at her full-time job. So, we had that, like when we started talking, it was like oh, you saw her too? Right? And then both of our parents and his mom had passed away very at the same time that my dad passed away. They're buried in the same cemetery, like 12 feet apart. Like just random coincidence, right? But I, but I love that he had done so much work ahead of time and that I had done a lot of work, you know, myself. And so, it it's made for a much like now if you ask me how marriage is, I'm like it can be a little difficult sometimes, but like I love I love it, right? Because it's just a different, different dynamic. It's a healthier relationship than what I was in before. What I had seen, yeah.
Hilary: Yeah. And we love the fact that you can say I love it and then that's OK. That's so exciting and.
Camille: Yeah. Yeah. No, I do.
Hilary: I'm just thinking that you shared so many practical tips for us, but as we kind of come to the the end of our time, any closing thoughts that you would offer to our listeners of maybe what stands out to you that helped you the most as you were going through this journey, anything that you know was, was kind of that, that that rock during this, this hard time.
Camille: I think I have two things and one is gratitude. I've always been a person like I've always for years, kept a little gratitude journal and on the hardest days, like on the days where I just felt like. I don't know if I can move forward anymore. This is so hard. I would write down something I was grateful for a lot of the times it was Diet Coke, you know, or like a quiet car ride, you know sometimes I was really reaching for those things, but. I, as you know, was trying to prepare for this. I looked back through some of my journal entries, and I could see that like even when it was so hard, I could still find something to be grateful about. And I think that is one of the things that helped me get through. And one thing I love. My husband and I every night, before we go to bed, we say three things. We're grateful for that day out loud and. And I'm gonna cry, but that is just one thing. If you know, if you're struggling right now, if you're, you know, you and your spouse or your partner are having a difficult time, like, I would suggest trying that because you know I could get through anything if I could still find something to be grateful for. So, that is one. The other is just being I wish I would have been a little more vulnerable with people looking back. Instead of trying to pretend that everything was OK, instead of trying to pretend like I could handle everything, and it was good, I wish I would have said no. This is not OK. Things are hard because I know like you sit in church or you go to the store or you're in your mom group or your friend group or whatever, and I can guarantee you someone else is suffering through something just as hard, if not harder. But they don't wanna talk about it either. And so, I would say being vulnerable and I don't think if you're going through a tough time as a stepparent or as in a marriage, I don't think you need to tell everybody about the difficulties. I do think you know what helped me is finding a couple of really trusted people that I could talk to and having those people not say I told you so or like the other thing that was hard for me is when people would be like, oh, you should just leave him. He's horrible, right? Well, that just kind of shames me more and makes me feel like it's my fault that I picked him. Right? So just being around people who just listened and said, hey, we love you. Like, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I think was key.
Hilary: Oh, that's so helpful to hear. Thank you for providing those tips for us. And in addition to us putting the information about our stepfamily class here at the family place, we'd love for you to include. We'll include those books that you suggested as well.
Camille: Okay, yeah
Hilary: Because I think that would be really helpful for our for listeners to have those resources as well too, because I love that you are spearheading this idea of more education, better off we're going to be firm believers of that here. So yeah, we'll make sure we get that information from you as. Well too so.
Camille: Awesome
Jen: Well, I want to thank you so much for coming and being on our podcasts. These I know Hillary and I have said many times, these are our favorites. These stories of resilience because we all have hard things and hearing that someone else has hard things. But yes, they've made it through, and these are the things that helped me get it through. And that is what a great message of spreading resiliency is. It's hard, but we can get through hard things.
Camille: Yeah, no, I just thought of another. Sorry, I know we're done, but one thing, I also kept a journal and I had. I had heard this from a podcast that I had listened to where, like somebody who was suffering with really bad depression had written little post it notes to herself and put them all over the house that said. “Hey, you thought that time that was going to kill you. You made it through”, right? And so she would be reminded that those times she thought she just couldn't move forward anymore. She did. And so I did that with the journal. Like I would write the really hard stuff, and then I could look back at it and go, OK, that didn't kill me. Like I made it through. I'm still here. Like I'm still moving forward and so. Sorry, that just was something else I thought was so helpful for me in my journey.
Jen: Amazing advice. Thank you. Well, we want to thank our listeners for coming and learning some new things and hopefully you can be more grateful, write down those things that hard, things that we've come and made it through, and really have those people around you that you can go to and really get some help. And so, thank you for coming. We remind you to be kind and patient with yourselves and we will see you back here next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place podcast. If you would like to reach us, you can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly -- The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is thefamilyplaceutah.org if you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we'd love to see you there.
Episode Notes and Resources:
Books:
"Saving Your Second Marriage Before It Starts" by Les Parrot
"Building Love Together in Blended Families" by Gary Chapman and Ron L. Deal
"The Smart Stepmom" by Ron L. Deal and Laura Pertherbridge
"The Smart Stepfamily" by Ron L. Deal ---------
Step Family Class: in-person with dinner class for whole family- https://thefamilyplaceutah.org/event/smart-steps-for-stepfamilies-3/
Step Family Class: virtual- https://extension.usu.edu/hru/courses/smart-steps-for-stepfamilies
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