Screen time, social media, games, texting, addiction? There is a lot to unpack when it comes to kids and technology, especially phones! Today we discuss different boundaries and rules one could implement as they are giving their kids a phone for the first time.
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Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. My name is Hilary Anderson.
Jen: And I'm Jen Daly.
Hilary: We are excited that you are with us this. I was going to say this morning, this afternoon, this evening, whatever time you're listening to us, I guess. So, in our house, my oldest is 12 going on, 13 going on Twenty-five honestly, but he's in sixth grade and I think we are finally getting to the point where we are thinking about getting him the phone. It's been a number of months of him whining and debating and attempting to convince us that this is the right time. My husband and I are getting to the point where we're like, okay, realistically, we can maybe, yes, so I said that to Jen, we're going to talk about this because I need some. I need some help in this area and I know that phones are super controversial right now with pre-teens. There's a lot going on in social media about the risks associated with phones, especially in regards to social media and social media apps. And I don't know if we'll get into that too much today because I think that's a topic on its own so that we can we can discuss but I just want to focus today a little bit on kind of setting up the stage in your home when it comes to successfully introducing a phone into your house for your teens. So, kind of the rules, the boundaries, what we would want to set up as parents, because let's be honest, I'm not just going to hand them a phone and say, here you go, go crazy. Like there is a lot of steps we're going to take before we put that phone in his hands and so, yeah, I wanted to brainstorm some things that I could do as a parent, as we unfortunately enter this realm of life. Now, Jen, I know you've got a stepdaughter that has a phone, I mean, you have you have two stepdaughters that have phones, one of which is all there. So, tell me a little bit about your experience with them and devices.
Jen: Well, this is hard because her mother gave her the phone and there were really no rules or boundaries put on it. I mean, she is really on her phone all the time and I mean, to get her to put it down during dinner or if we're having a family movie night or something like that, it's like pulling teeth like, the end of the world is coming because I asked her to turn off her phone and actually be in the moment, and we have tried several things that one have not worked because, I give up. Like, I figure like if she's not getting this in her mom's home where she spends most of her time, you know, is this worth my fight, which like on most days, I feel like, yes, it is worth my fight because I want to create this strong family unit with me and her dad and just the three of us having a strong family unit. And when you have one person constantly trying to be in both places, that's really hard. So, we have tried the no phone at dinner time, but then it got to where she was hiding it under her leg and things like that, so, it's really hard. So, I feel like if it were her dad and I giving her the phone, it would be completely different because these are the rules and I think that's where you start first. These being these are the rules of your phone, her dad will go every once in a while, and just say, can I see your phone? Because I feel like you as the parent have every single right to look what your kids are looking at that on their phone. And it is like, again, the end of the world, like, why do you want to look at my phone? I have nothing to hide, and I'm like, well, I've got nothing to hide, then hand it over!
Hilary: Shouldn't be a problem for you to see it.
Jen: So, yeah, really setting up those rules and I think the first one should be I purchased this phone, I pay for the bill, this is my phone and I'm allowing you to use it.
Hilary: Yeah, there's a pretty popular parenting Instagram account, and she talks about that. And I had never thought about this before but she makes the suggestion that if you're going to give your kids a phone, don't necessarily give it to them for Christmas or birthday because when you give a child a gift for their birthday, you set up the expectation that this is your gift like, this is yours. And so, I mean, I'll be honest, I'm one of those parents that come December 1st my kids, if my kids come to me and say, hey, we're out of toothpaste or my socks have holes in them, I'll be like, just put it on your Christmas list and it'll come in a few weeks.
Jen: I'll put it in your stocking
Hilary: I’m one of those parents. But and so as much as I hate just giving them something and a random day in the year, I love the idea of just saying, you know, this is a phone that I have purchased for our home that I am allowing you to use, which means that in the end, I have control over it. And so, I think setting it up in that way, this isn't yours, this isn’t a gift I'm giving you. This is something I'm allowing you to borrow for the purpose of communicating with me and also with your peers or whomever you need to communicate with.
Jen: One thing that I do like that her mom has done they cut her mom's side of the family is a fairly large family and so my stepdaughter has never gotten a brand-new phone. It's always an old phone from a family member, and because she is, I swear that girl will drop that thing, I don't know how many times. And so I mean, finding them a used one, if you can find it on the internet, on Facebook Marketplace, whatever, I would do that for my child first before I buy a $1000 phone for them to use.
Hilary: Well, it was so funny because we had a conversation with my son and it was more just I just wanted to kind of find out his thoughts and feelings. Not that he was making any of those decisions at this point, but I said to him, you know, child, what would you say would be a good phone for a 12 year old, 13-year-old to have? I just wanted to hear his thoughts, and he's like, probably an iPhone 13 and I'm like, go ahead and try again. iPhone 12 I'm like, keep, try and keep trying and finally, we came to the consensus that, you know what, sweetie? I think it's pretty unrealistic for you to expect that you'll have a better phone than mom and dad will, because realistically, this is the first phone that you're going to use. And so, don't expect that it's going to be the newest device out there and I think that's important for parents to remember. Like this is this is their trial period, especially in the beginning stages so, don't drop a pretty penny for this trial period. Find a phone that will work for the purpose that you need it to and yes, they prove worthy that they can keep track of it and that it ends up in one piece. Then we can maybe evaluate getting a better one in a year or two.
Jen: And I think getting that one in the year or two is key in a year or two we will get you a new phone. So here is X, Y and Z that you can do for me over the next two years to kind of earn and help us pay for that, so, they have some responsibility for it, but still understanding that this is mom and dad's phone. Because I am a full believer in teaching kids and having kids when they're able to make money or anything like that, that they start being responsible for that and the extra things that they want, they can pay for some of it.
Hilary: Yeah, I think it's realistic, I mean, a lot of parents, I've worked with a lot of parents that have said, well, it's unrealistic for me to expect my child to earn a thousand dollars. And you know what I might say to them, you're right, so, we're not going to expect them to earn a thousand dollars were going to expect them to earn two hundred of that thousand dollars. Or you decide.
Jen: Or I expect them to mow the lawn every week during the summer.
Hilary: Yeah, you find a way that they can pay what you feel like is a realistic sum towards this. Yeah, and it may not be the total cost, but I think that that's fine.
Jen: Well, they have a little skin in the game at that point, and it's more important to keep it, you know, in good working condition. So, Hilary, what do you think some rule was? Because I like I said, I think that's where we need to start first. So, what do you think some rules are that we need to have for kids, like I tried the whole nine at dinner time, and it's my fault because I give up because I'm like, I'm done with this fight so well.
Hilary: I mean, obviously, I think one of the cool things that we have nowadays is that there's so many parental apps that people can use to hopefully set some limits and restrictions on the phones and I think that that's okay to do. And so maybe a rule about by this time of the day, we need to be off the device or after you've used up this amount of time on these different apps then your time is up. I mean, I think part of getting a phone is learning about time management, and I know that there are ways on phones to track how much time you're spending on particular apps. And I'll be honest, I think we as adults would be amazed if we really took the time to evaluate how much time we're spending on Facebook, and Instagram, on YouTube, that I'm sure that our phone consumption time is much more than what it needs to be. And so, I think it's okay to say, you know, an hour or amount of time on social media is probably great for your half hour, 15 minutes, whatever you decide your limit is. But I think setting some limits on how often it can be used and in what areas of the phone.
Jen: Yeah, because I think like I have that little thing that'll pop up weekly and tell me this is how much time you've spent on your phone. And I'm like, oh my good golly, it's kind of appalling and it's like holy cats. And a lot of it is it's right before I go to sleep, I'm scrolling and then I get sucked in to scrolling and I have, I mean, I have this knowledge of knowing that this is too much and I still fall into those traps of just scrolling and looking. And I know that my stepdaughter, that I mean she will if she's at our house at the weekend, she will scroll all weekend long. I mean, she takes to the bathroom.
Hilary: Most of us do, so, I have, I'm thinking I have a sister who has some time restrictions on her children's phones, her teens phones, and there's days where they'll run out of time and they'll go to their mom and they'll say, hey, I'm working on this project or I'm doing this, or I'm watching a movie on my phone, like, can I finish it? And I think it's totally appropriate to say, yes, you need in mind that you realistically are accomplishing a task that needs to be done, yes. But then there's times where you're right, we're just wasting time scrolling through unnecessary things and at that point you can say, you know what? Like, you had plenty of time for today, so let's close up shop until tomorrow, he'll be back then
Jen: Yeah, I know my sister in law sent a picture of my nephew, who is 12? Yeah, he's 12, and he came home from their church and he lay down and took a nap and that's kind of odd for a 12-year-old just to say, I'm going to take a nap. And she's like, I think he's tired maybe he's going through a growth spurt and I said, or maybe he was up in the middle of the night looking on his iPad. And she's like luckily, we have internet turn off times. Yeah, and I think that's pretty smart, too, where it's just sorry, this is for the whole family it goes off at this time.
Hilary: Yep, and you know, honestly, you bring up a good point and that is the fact that a lot of these rules that we're going to set up with our teens, with our kids, honestly, they'd probably be good rules to have across the entire household. Because is it necessary for us to scroll until midnight each night? Probably not. And so, to set it so that the Wi-Fi goes off at 10:00, I mean, I think that that's probably good practice for even us as adults.
Jen: Agreed, I think another rule that we have to set with kids is it goes along with this is my phone. I purchased it, so, it's mine and I'm letting you use it. I think we need to set up rules of, I as the parent also have at any time I can ask you to look at your phone because of the social media, because of all of the things that our kids can see or get into or whatnot, purposefully or purposefully. Just we need to be checking up on them and seeing what? What are you looking at? Is it too much social media? Is it too? Are they looking at pornography? Are they bullying somebody on all of these things? So, we, as parents, need to be an active part of that as well, and they need to know. Okay, I'm going to ask for your phone just out of the blue, you need to give it to me.
Hilary: Yeah, I've talked to a few parents that have a hard time with that concept because it's the idea of, I want, you know, like they need to gain their freedom and their independence, and they have a right to have part of their life, be private. And while I see what they're getting at and I do agree that part of being a team is building up responsibility, but there's just so much that can happen on a device that I think that that may realistically be an area where we need a little bit more parental control. And that's okay.
Jen: Yeah and in the beginning, it might be often that you're asked and that where that's where you can build up that trust to where in the beginning. I mean, we're not going to tell our kids this, but you are looking at it more often and then it becomes less and less once you see that they are doing what they need to do with the phone in an appropriate way. And if you start loosening or checking it less and you find that something's not okay because now they figured out your, there's more gaps between when they look, then we tighten it back down. We never want to start open and then try to tighten it never works.
Hilary: You're right, you know, one of my biggest pet peeves that I talk to this about my son is when you have a group of kids, especially younger kids, who are just hovering around a phone when you've got a basketball hoop and bikes and Legos and all these other things they could be interacting with. Yet we're all just staring at this phone and you know, it was interesting because when I talked to my son, I said, I pointed out a few particular individuals who I know have a problem being on their phones. And I said to him, you know, how does it feel when someone is always on their phone the whole time when you guys are hanging out and he's like, honestly, it's not very much fun. And so, I think, you know, there are times where these teens and these pre-teens and these kids are together, and maybe they're all playing a game on their phone with each other. And if that's the case, sure, you know, that's great, have fun. But there's other times where we’re in the same room, but we're not necessarily interacting with each other at all, and I think it's okay to say, you know what, you guys can have these phones as long as it's not causing a problem, but, it's a problem if we're together, but we're not together.
Jen: It's teaching them to be in the moment and being mindful of what is going on. There used to be a commercial years ago that I saw of a man that was just walking down the street, always looking at his phone, and that was the first part of the commercial. The second part, he was walking down the same street, but it was showing him everything that he missed along the way because he was on his phone and I thought that was a pretty powerful, like, missing meeting people, missing meeting his wife. I mean, things like that, I mean, and I know that's for an adult, but there's lots of things that kids will miss as well, opportunities.
Hilary: I know I've been around different groups where you know, you've got some of the kids that have phones and others that don't. And so, you have these kids that are engaging in some type of athletic game or activity, and then you have a few others that are just sitting by themselves on their phone. I've even seen these kids try to encourage this child on their phone, hey, come and play with us, come and play with us, and they choose not to. And so, I think you can set up that expectation that if I see you with your friends or your even your siblings or your family and you're choosing to engage on your device rather than be with the group, guess what? That's one of those times where it becomes a problem and if that's the case, then we see that consistently, then we might have to set up a consequence so that you don't lose out on building those relationships.
Jen: Yeah. Are there any other rules that you can think of that you would put on your son getting a phone?
Hilary: I think, you know, we talk about setting up the expectation that this is not necessarily their phone, but our phone and helping them pay. I think that also goes into helping them pay if repairs need to happen, apps or even if they want to purchase an app, that might be something that they need to purchase, that's not free. I think part of taking care of a device, of an object that you have means that you’re in charge.
Jen: If they want a certain phone case, if they drop their phone and the tempered glass that you have on the front cracks, okay, you got to figure out how to, you're going to do that. And I think I don't know, at least in my mind, like there was one time that I was laying on a hammock at my parents' house and they just have left it outside. And it was summertime, and my stepdaughter came and ran and jumped on me while I was laying on that hammock and the ropes, it kind of rotted. So, with her running and jumping on it, it broke the hammock and ripped the ropes apart. And I said, oh my goodness and I looked at how much this cost, and I'm like, okay, this is a $50 hammock piece that she needs to help. While this was when she was like 10 years old and she's not making money at that time, but I'm like, what is it in my house that I don't want to do? And this is something my mom used to do, she would hand us some Q-tips and say, go around and clean the baseboard. So, I had her clean baseboard, so sometimes they're not able to make money, but you can have them pay you in chores or things that you don't want to do. And let me tell you, that was super nice to have my baseboards cleaned.
Hilary: Anyone can benefit from clean baseboards, no one ever does that!
Jen: No one ever does it, it's like you have to stop and think, what are those things that I don't want to do washing the walls or something.
Hilary: You know, it's funny because I've got a cute little niece that has a phone went through a phase where she didn't necessarily take great care of it. And whenever we were together at a family function, we'd always play the game, hide the phone because it was so often that she would just leave it somewhere and completely forget about it. And she'd go home for the night and then she'd think, oh crap, where is it? You know? And so, we do it, it's probably not a very nice example, but we'd always say, hey, hey, put the phone over underneath the couch cushion. Let's see how long she goes without noticing that it's gone because it was like out of sight, out of mind. They need to understand that part of the responsibility is knowing where it is and being aware of putting it away when it needs to be put away. I mean, I know a lot of families have particular like docking stations where all your devices go at the end of the day and kind of keeping them in one general area. And I like that idea of being responsible at the end of the night, putting it in the charging device, and it'll be there the next day.
Jen: Well, then you eliminate the whole part of them trying to look at it in the middle of the night, if you don't have those restrictions on your internet.
Hilary: I mean, I don't even know, even with my little ones, we have a few iPads that have some basic educational games on them, but I don't know how many times they have been playing and then they've just sat the iPad aside. And then the next day they're going to find it and it's dead and they act like it is the end of the world and I think, child. All you need to do is plug it in at the end of the night but guess what? If you choose not to do that, you're going to have a dead iPad, and that’s the natural consequence of that.
Jen: I am so sorry, that's got to be so hard that your iPad is dead, maybe next time we can remember to put it at the docking station.
Hilary: So, yeah, seems like such an easy thing, but it's not.
Jen: I think also one that has happened to us of not taking care of it, not being able to find it is when we take her home and she's left it on the car seat in the back seat and then she calls and she's like, I don't have my phone. I think it's at your house and I'm like, well, I guess the next time you're at our house or the next time we're at that in your area will bring your phone. And she was like, you need it for school, no, you really don't need it for school. So not saving them all the time when they have forgotten it or something like that.
Hilary: And you mentioned this, but I've also heard of a lot of parents that have set up kind of as part of their contract with their kids that there are times where you need to use the phone and other times where you don't. So, if you're going over to a friend's house or if you're going to your local rec center or you're going to a sporting event, yeah, bring the phone with you, because that may be a time where you may need to contact me or I might need to contact you. But if we're just around the house, guess what? You don't necessarily need it at that time so maybe another rule could be setting up those times when phone use is appropriate and other times where it's unnecessary. And if it's an unnecessary time, then it doesn't need to be brought out.
Jen: Yeah, you know, on my phone and I have an iPhone, and so it has find a friend. So, I think that could be another good rule that we have is I always need to know where you're at now and I need to be able to find you and I can do that by looking at my phone and finding you.
Hilary: You know, and it's kind of funny because even as we have this conversation, I'm even thinking to myself, what's the purpose of them having a phone? Because I think for a lot of us as adults, you I mean, it's a means for us to communicate, but it's also a tool to entertain us. And so, I think maybe sitting down as a family and saying, what's the purpose of having this? And honestly, I think for these young children, especially, it's the purpose is to maintain that contact and for safety purposes. I don't necessarily mean it as an entertainment device. Like many of us, adults use it as I don't know if us adults need it as an entertainment device, to be honest with you. But I think if we see it in that light and we help kids to understand that this is something that we're allowing you to use because we want to make sure you're safe, we want to make sure that you're surrounded with people that are people that we would see as appropriate people. We want to be able to contact us if there's ever a time where you're in a scenario that you don't think you should be a part of. And so, I think, yeah, kind of evaluating the why of this coming out in our child's life now.
Jen: And I think the why is important, I think setting up these rules are so important these boundaries. You know, you can even start with a very, very basic phone and let them gain that trust to get better phones. So, I think we've talked about a lot of good things today and definitely, I feel like this is a topic that we can revisit talking more about social media and the internet on our phones with kids. But I think this is a good spot to stop today and pick it up for another episode. And I really want to thank everyone coming and listening to our podcast. We hope that it is beneficial for you and giving you one or two ideas of what you can do to help strengthen your own family. If you would like to reach Hilary or myself, you can do that by emailing us at Parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org where you can find me on Facebook. Jen Daly- The Family Place. We hope that you have a great week and we will see you back here next week.
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