Does you child refuse to eat anything except Chicken Nuggets? Or does your child refuse to eat any new foods? No matter the age, picky eating is something we all see however it is very common in Children and a big concern for many parents. Jess is here from our Parents as Teachers program to guide us through picky eating challenges and great tips to help you at every stage of parenting. Take a look at our great episode today!
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. We have a very special guest with us today and I say that because this is a dear colleague of ours. That we've roped into being here with us today, so we're so grateful that Jess is here with us. Are you so grateful that you're here with us?
Jess: Absolutely
Hilary: Good answer. So, before we start Jess, tell us a little bit about what you do at the Family Place
Jess: So, I oversee the parents and teachers program. That's a free and home visiting program where we work with parents, caregivers and their children, prenatal to age 5. We go over a variety of topics, so like child development, family well-being and planning. We do an activity together. So, you have that time with your child to bond and have the uninterrupted time. And there's a billion other aspects to it that I won't go into.
Hilary: And remind me, because I should know the answer to this question. This is a nationwide program, so if our listeners aren't in Utah, they may still have this option available.
Jess: Yes, but fun fact it's also worldwide. I can't remember all the countries think they have in Australia, some in the UK. So, if you are out of the country there is still potential.
Hilary: OK. And I'm assuming like across the board, it's always called or referred to as Parents as Teacher so just Google that and hopefully you'll find your location.
Jess: Yeah, they have a search, a location search engine somewhere on the website. So, you should go find it. OK? Yeah.
Hilary: I love that, OK. Well, Jess is going to share some information that I am especially excited about. Because this may or may not be a struggle in my very own home. So, I'm excited. For you to give me all the tips and techniques on how to maneuver this. But we're going to talk a little bit about kids and being picky eaters, so let's start. Maybe with the first question I think a lot of parents want answered and that is. Is that normal?
Jess: Well, I want to give you some Peace of Mind saying that it is completely normal. It's one of the biggest like complaints or stressors or whatever, you would call it that I get from parents just because it is such a touchy thing. You want the best for your child, obviously. And if they're not eating what you think they should be, or if all they're eating is junk, you know, that can be a little concerning. So, if this happens in your house, Hilary, you're not alone. Yes, it's actually in the United States called like, the picky eating epidemic.
Hilary: Really.
Jen: Wow
Jess: Yeah. In the United States it's really huge. There's a Ted talk that I watched that you guys can link in the show notes that kind of goes into this like epidemic we're seeing in the United States, you know, it's really interesting, but yeah, it it's really common here in the United States.
Jen: Do they have a common like? Is it vegetables that they're not wanting to eat? Like what's the pickiness all about.
Jess: That is a very big question for a board subject.
Jen: Are they just wanting junk food or fast food it?
Jess: Like it, it depends on the child, honestly, the family.
Jen: Would just be interesting to know that.
Hilary: Like, well, I'm just curious as to like this epidemic. Is it the food industry? like is it is their fault? Is it our fault? Is it a combination of everything? Like, is this the worldwide or like you said, this is the United States and so.
Jess: Like it could be worldwide, but the information I know is in the US so I don't know.
Hilary: Yeah, but yeah, I mean, I know I've looked at it and watched documentaries myself, talking about how awful our food industry is in the US.
Jen: Oh, I refuse to watch those because then you.
Hilary: Ohh yeah and
Jen: Just don't want to leave.
Hilary: And Compared to every other part of the world, how many more nutritious, healthy fruits and vegetables they offer their children. And so I can see it. I mean not to take the blame off of us as parents, because I think there's, I mean, obviously we'll talk about things that we can do but there's a lot of junk to our kids and that junk is enticing because it's bright and it's bold and it's right at their eyeballs and it's always at the front of the, you know at the checkout stand and so.
Jen: I think other countries slow down. We don't slow down and so I feel like we get all of our kids into all of these activities and then the thing that's easiest for dinner is McDonald's, yeah.
Hilary: Just grab and go type situation, yeah. We've derailed you continue with what you were saying. That was just shocking. No, it makes me really curious to watch that so.
Jess: Going along with that, I also learned well, kind of like poking around in this information that the average US. Grocery store has 30,000 plus dinner options, so 30,000 plus products that are not the same. That's so much that is overwhelming for parents. It's overwhelming for children just to go and look at that. They see the thing that looks the coolest and that's what they want, you know. So, I think honestly it's a combination of all these different factors, but it is super common. It's usually, typically begins around like the age of two heats at age 3 and then tapers down a little bit at 4 point or 4 1/2. So again, those are just average, so if your child's fitting into that that you know, it could be it's, they're pickier. They're like, we don't know.
Jen: I'm just thinking my nephew. He was in that eating group. Oh, he was horrific. It was salami slices. It was pasta, but it had to be the spinach with the spinach, tomato, round noodle, or the spiral noodle. It couldn't just be the plain ones and Caesar dressing and specific chicken Nuggets. And let me tell you, if he did not get what he wanted, there was a ginormous screaming match.
Hilary: That is so unique.
Jen: Oh yeah. I remember once I made the plain pasta, not the green, and the orange ones.
Hilary: How dare you, Jen!
Jen: I even held up the boxes, said. Which one do you want? He chose the plain one and made it in an hour, that kid screamed. I just recorded him and ate my lunch.
Hilary: Which I mean, I guess poses the question. So, you say it starts to you start to notice this for a lot of individuals peaking around 2 to 4. Is it because that's when they're starting to develop some autonomy? Is that because I mean is there a reason why it tends to hit around that age range?
Jess: There is a lot going on for 2 to 4 year olds. That is typically when you see the most like searching for independence. So sometimes it's not even about the food, it's about the control. I don't know if you guys have ever been in a power struggle with a 2 or three-year old, but you will not win that battle. Yeah, yeah.
Jen: You know, that's why I ordered them for an hour while he was screaming.
Jess: Yeah, and sometimes that's all you can do. So yeah, sometimes it's not even about the food at that point. It's that I wanted my chicken Nuggets on their plate and eating me a blue one. So I'm going to throw them at you.
Jen: Yeah, one last story about my nephew. Even ketchup, it had to be a specific kind of ketchup. We were sitting in Chili's restaurant and the bottle was Heinz. He put it out and he took a thing. He that is not Heinz. Yeah. And he was older by this time. And his pickiness lasted quite some time, but it was like this is not Heinz ketchup. You go and get some Heinz Ketchup. And I'm like. He threw another screaming match.
Hilary: But I think that's really important for parents to recognize, because I think sometimes when our kids aren't eating the food, especially if it's food that we have taken the time to prepare, we take that as like a personal offense. How dare you tell me that my cooking is or isn't good. It has nothing to do with the actual food itself. And so I think. Don’t take it personal has nothing to do with what you have provided. It has more to do, like you said with that that independence.
Jess: Yeah, that that power will, you know. So like moving along with that though. Uh, if it is like a power struggle thing, which you know is very common in these young kids as well, some ways you can kind of like combat that is offering them choices in other ways. So if you think about it, we tell them what to do all day long. And at that age. They're starting to realize, I'm my own person, you know. And so, us giving them these choices throughout the day. Like, do you want to wear the long socks or the short socks? Do you want to wear this shirt or this shirt like little choices where we can give them can sometimes help when there isn't a choice, but we also need to be careful and not phrasing things as a question when there is no choice. So, I think it's really common. We're like hey are you ready for dinner? We're giving them the opportunity to say no. You know, they're playing. They don't want to, like, put their toys away. We just say it's time for dinner. Something that can also be just like a dinner time routine. So if you haven't been doing this, it might take, like, several times. These food, but it doesn't have to be like a big production either. It can be re wash your hands. You put on a bid and you set the tip. That's a routine. And if it's just something that's consistent everyday, it's something that you see something that they know is going to happen. In a way, it makes the brain feel safe. Yeah, people in general, we like to know what's happening next. And so, if there's like that fear taken out of it in a sense, then maybe the meal time will go a little more pleasant, you know, but again, it does depend on the child temperament. It's going to play a part of this. So if you have a child that's a little more like slow to warm to new situations. It might take them. Several times as an introduction of a new food, to finally even just. Put their lips. I think it's what was it like 10 to 15 times that you might have to introduce a child to something before they're like, even going to consider again, not always, but that's just like an average statistic is able to see it on their plate. Something really helpful with that as well as having the parent model. So if you want them to eat broccoli. Even if you don't like broccoli, you know. Maybe just see have them see, you nibble on it, you know. If you are like “Ew Gross!” And then expect them to go around and eat it
Jen: You know, that's just it's like you make your bed. But I'm not going to make my bed, yeah.
Jess: Kids are very, very observant. So, they will watch the people around and you know, they want to be like their carryovers, their mom and dad, their brothers or whatever. And so the likelihood of them, like, trying these foods is higher. If it's the people that are around doing it as well. consistency.
Jen: And I think consistency falls into that because if you, I mean seeing the food that many times. But then if you give in because they've thrown a big enough tantrum. And then give them whatever they want. Then you're just teaching them throw this tantrum and you'll get to what you want. And that's hard because, and I think sometimes we as parents don't realize we've taught our children to react in lots of different ways because we're not consistent. It's hard.
Hilary: Especially with a situation where you're in public like you mentioned at the restaurant and my child starts to throw a major meltdown. Mm-hmm. It's a lot easier just to say. Fine. Just. Yeah, we'll get you the ketchup or. Sure you can just have the ice cream instead and so it's a tricky situation to be in.
Jess: Yeah. And I think it's important to remain consistent for sure, but I also think as parents, you need to like understand that you cannot give 100% every single day. That's impossible. So to give yourself, grace. And like we all try our best, and sometimes our best looks different on Tuesday than it does Wednesday, you know? And that's OK. So, like, if these are things that you're trying to implement and it doesn't go 100% every time, then the world's not going to end. I just think people are so hard on themselves.
Jen: I mean, you know, if we have a bad day, that's great. But if every single time we're getting in, that's when the consistency becomes a problem. Every now and then because we have a hard day that's not going to hurt anybody, but I think also, we have to come to the realization that sometimes, really, the kid just doesn't like it.
Hilary: Well, I mean there are times that I don’t like it. That's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking that 10 to 15 statistic. I'm like, if I given myself 15 different times to try mushrooms, I maybe haven't. No wonder. I don't like them, you know. And so I think that's a big number. And so you. Yeah, it's this idea of looking at myself and saying. That's consistent effort at doing something that we maybe don't initially want to do. Yeah, so.
Jess: Yes, it does take effort and you know it can be hard, but it's something we want to see. We have to think about the big picture. You know this might fix it for now, but what happens is that teaching your child, you know to take. The girl got older. They're in school, you know? So it's much. It's not a quick fix. It's you're in it for the long hall.
Hilary: Ah dang it! So, I want to give you a few scenarios very common scenarios that I think we hear from parents and let's brainstorm maybe possible solutions. So I'm thinking the first one that we hear quite often. I've provided the dinner, I've done everything I can to set the stage for a positive environment, and yet they still refuse, right? Do we force them to eat? You know, we we've heard the technique. If you've got to eat this many bites or you need to eat until your plate is clean, is it appropriate to provide a separate meal the let's start with the you got to eat everything on your plate scenario, which is a super common one.
Jen: Sit there until you're done eating. I’ve been there.
Hilary: Yeah, right. What are your thoughts? I mean, is that OK to do? Is that something to avoid?
Jess: It's been shown, studies have shown that that generally has the adverse effect.
Jen: Because now you're food shaming.
Jess: Yeah, you're forcing your child to eat, and we really, really want to stay away from that. Say They're like, I'm not eating this dinner. You know. Don't force it. Do your best not to make separate meals. I know that sounds not super easy, but. I think they mentioned this had talked to this mom making like 5 different meals. It's teaching the children and that if you don't do this, I will give them to what you want. You know, so it becomes more of like. You get what you want kind of thing. Yeah, kind of. Like a bad habit learned
Jen: I know when I was a kid. It was either you eat what I make or you can have a peanut, butter and Jelly sandwiches
Hilary: And that was going to be my next question. So, I'm thinking sometimes with my older kids, you know, maybe they don't want what we're providing. And so, they're old enough for me to say, alright, if you're not going to eat that, then it's your responsibility to make PB and J. Or even to make cereal that is that in there like. I'm afraid that also is kind of allowing them to get out off the hook of trying new things.
Jen: We were never allowed to try other here or make ourselves things. It was a PB and J the end.
Hilary: Yeah, but like, that's usually two very simple options, but I'm like, maybe I shouldn't even offer that so I don’t know.
Jess: Yeah, I mean. With the older kids, I don't so much like know. With the younger ones, we want to be careful with, not to you know, it's like giving in to temper tantrum. If they scream and cry and we give them what they want. Like you were saying and then they're going to do it. Yeah, because that's how they learn that they get what they want. Yeah. So, like, doing their best not to make that a habit again. If it becomes like an ongoing thing. OK, that's when you would need to like talk to your pediatrician. But we also want to be careful in teaching our children not to listen to their hunger cues. Children are very in tune with their bodies, and I think as parents, we need to trust, if they're hungry, they will eat. Again, f there's something medical going on then that's a different story. But when we sit children down and say you should not leave this table until your plate is gone. We're teaching them to ignore their bodies natural cues of, I'm full, you know. And although we have good intentions, it could lead to some like not so great outcomes like obesity and other like food disorders later in life.
Jen: I think anorexia, you can go. I mean anything to where they now have control.
Hilary: OK. So air on the side of we're offering praise and encouragement if they do attempt to try something, if they choose not to do so. That's their choice. We're not going to provide a separate meal. And we're not going to supplement it with Additional sugary snacks if you're choosing not to eat dinner you know.
Jen: I've been pondering that older kid thing. Yeah. And I'm thinking, you know, what? If they're willing to make their own dinner? And it's not taking away from a nut. Like if you meal plan, it's not taking away from another meal and they're willing to make it. And then they're willing to clean it up, put the dishes in the dishwasher. So, there's no evidence that they made anything
Hilary: Leave no trace then.
Jen: Then I don't know if I wouldn't really care.
Hilary: Well, I you know, as as you guys were talking, I'm thinking to myself, you know, at these ages at 2and 3 and 4 and 5, we're still in the process of experimenting with foods and new foods. And we have yet to know what they like and what they dislike. For my 14 year old, I have a pretty good idea of what he likes and doesn't like. And so there's going to be things that he doesn't like. And I can respect that. And so if. I make something that I know is not his thing. I think it is OK to say, Yep, I made this and I know you don't necessarily love tomato sauce. So yes, if you want to make yourself a PB and J, that's fine. Clean it up when you're done. But I think that scenario is different than. This scenario where we're introducing a brand new food for the first time and we really want to encourage the family as a whole to try it out, yeah, so.
Jen: And I think the family as a whole needs to try it out it. Can't just be you haven't tried it so here. We are all going to sit here and watch you
Jess: Yeah. And I think it's important to celebrate those like small successes, you know, like say, today, they just tolerate that food being on their plate. Thats a win! That's better than the day before.
Jen: It's being thrown better than thrown at it you.
Jess: So like any time you can associate positivity with like a certain food or like a meal time, even in general, it's going to hopefully give you those outcomes that you're looking for. We just don't want to make food for meal time like a negative experience because it's usually going to turn into just, you know, I'm not eating this period kind of thing, just that kind of battle and. And that's essentially what we're trying to avoid.
Jen: I just had visions of the Christ story. The little boy gone being a pig and then yeah.
Jess: And you're right. Like kids, they have preferences too. For example, so if Jen, somebody sat you down like you eat this bottle of ketchup until it's gone.
Hilary: She'd still be sitting here till this day.
Jen: : Yes.
Jess: For those of you who don’t know, Jen does not like ketchup. So that would be a huge trouble. You know, some foods, like your child's not gonna like. And that's OK. They're human as well. They're gonna have preference. And you probably still change over your time, so they may not like it now, but they could like it later. But I think the golden rule is that parents provide the food and healthy options and is the child's job to decide how much and what they will eat
Hilary: And I think that that's a good reminder like that through this process of providing a meal, like you said, we're providing options. And so you know, sometimes we feel like it's a loss if our child doesn't try the main dish that we offered, but if we're providing a main dish with some oranges and some broccoli on the side and a drink of milk and they choose to eat two of those four things. Like, that's still a win because they're getting something in those little bellies. And so, I think provide a variety of options. And if they don't eat it all, they. They don't eat it, all and that’s ok.
Jess: Yeah, it is ok. They are not going to starve themselves
Hilary: No, they're not such a hard concept for parents to grasp, especially when they're little. So, I think if we can just remember that. They're, yeah, but they, like you said, I think part of being young is recognizing those physical cues.
Jen: Yeah. And I think that, like I'm remembering back to one of my nieces. And she would eat a Big Breakfast. Yeah. And she was 2-3 years old, but she was it was breakfast. And she wouldn't eat any lunch. And then dinner was. You know she'd want apples and peanut butter or something like that. Nothing big, but it was. She ate a huge breakfast and her doctor finally told her she's not going to starve herself. This is. This is where she knows she's hungry and she's eating a Big Breakfast. And that may be what she needs right now.
Hilary: Yeah, my little guy is like the teeniest, tiniest little bird. And he eats like a bird. And I've there's been times before where I've talked to my pediatrician and he's like he'll eventually get a growth spurt, and during that gross spurt he'll probably realize, well, my body needs a little bit more than what I've been offering it in the past, and chances are he'll kind of learn that lesson on his own. And so, it's been a good reminder for me to be, like, just provide what I can. And like I said, he'll kind of take over.
Jess: I think it's important to remember that eating is a very sensory oriented experience and sometimes sensory experiences are more difficult for some people than others. So that whether that be like the way the food looks, smells, the way it tastes the you know texture of it. We need to be mindful of that as well. I remember when I taught preschool, I had quite a few children when we were serving lunch, they would say do not let my food touch. And if it did, they scooted away and they would have nothing to do.
Hilary That's the end.
Jess: With it, you know and. I feel. Like, well, geez, I am so, you know, in the beginning I was like, so annoyed. And then I figured out.
Jen: I created barriers with paper towels. Yeah, like I didn't like I loved zucchini, but I didn't like that that my mom would boil it and I didn't like that the juices would get everywhere so I would create the little barriers with paper towels. I did that with several foods and sadly I kind of still do.
Jess: Depends on the person, right? So, we just need to remember that our children are individuals. I feel like sometimes in a way, we forget that knowing that they like things a certain way and that's OK, although it can be annoying to us as adults. We still need to respect them as individuals. I also like the portion sizes, this blew my mind. When I first started working for PAT, I was reading through the nutrition information. I found this out. They recommend you start with a tablespoon per like whatever their age is. So if they're a one year old, you put a tablespoon of food.
Hilary: For their for that meal, yeah.
Jen: That’s it?
Hilary: And that's not a lot.
Jen: It's not a lot.
Jess: It's listening, yeah. Yeah, and the reasoning behind that is like if you give them this plate in it, it's just full, you know, like think about a play that you get on Thanksgiving. That's overwhelming to us as adult. Imagine if you're a little 2 year old and you see all this food, you might not be able, you know where to begin. So it's their recommendation is to start smaller. And it's always better to have them ask for more than see this big plate and get overwhelmed and not want anything to do with it
Jen: OK, I'm glad you said. That because I'm like a tablespoon? That’s all they get?
Jess: No, no. That doesn't mean that all they have to eat. You know, if they are hungry they can always ask for more
Hilary: But like I'm thinking about that visual and I'm thinking how many times have I been at my house or at a family function where I have made a plate for my child and then come back to that plate later. And thought to myself, they didn't eat anything and I get really frustrated at the fact that there was still so much food on their plate when in reality they probably did eat how much was appropriate for them to eat. But I'm still looking at all the excess. And thinking and getting mad as a parent because they have so much wasted food.
Jess: Yeah. And they have small stomachs there kids you know. So it's typical for us, clearly it's not typical for them. And it can be overwhelming. And that's part of, like, the sensory experience, you know, it's like this is too much, you know?
Hilary: Well, probably. I mean, going back to what you initially said, I think just as a society as a whole, that's one of the downfalls of the food industry is that that we're probably all getting bigger portions than what we need to have. Like realistically speaking, even as adults, we probably have more on our plate than really what our body needs, nutritionally speaking. So. I love that.
Jess: Yeah, I I just find that to be like a really interesting thing because I didn't know this either until I was reading up on it and I was like what? That is insane, but if. You think about it, it makes sense, you know and. So I see why they have the recommendation for that.
Jen: Just thinking about my stepdaughter, she always wanted me to order like 2 quesadillas, or I want the fried rice and I want this and I'm like. Then I get ticked off at her because she wouldn't eat it. And I had spent it or make it. So less is better. They want more. You can always give them more. You can't take it away.
Hilary: Well, and I mean, we all know and I think one of the things that's really frustrating, we're one of the frustration lies for a lot of parents, is that, food is not cheap. You mentioned food is very expensive, especially nowadays, and so to have food that is not eaten and left on the plate, that's you can see why parents get so angry at that scenario and then at their children because of that so.
Jess: Yeah, it's going back to the. Not taking it personally. When I was a preschool teacher, they always told us to keep going. So quit taking it personally. So, I always have to remind myself that this child is not out to get me. You know, they don’t have that capability. They don’t have it in their brain capacity to manipulate you or, you know, do things like that. So, we just can't take it personally. If we spend, you know, a couple hours making this beautiful meal and they want nothing to do with it. It's not because of you.
Hilary; Good reminder, yeah. So, I know with the PAT program. One of the things. That you guys are really good at is just identifying what is age appropriate and maybe where there might be some developmental delays and whatnot so. Let's say that we have what we would assume is an incredibly picky eater, maybe out of the norm. At what point should maybe we reach out to our pediatrician to say hey, like they're eating nothing. I realistically think they're starving. When, when do we know? Maybe when we've gone beyond that normal development.
Jess: My I think that they they would check weight and you know and if your child is falling like below the average I guess percentile for their age group that's when it would be a concern. That's when you probably would get referred to like an occupational therapist or like a feeding therapist. There could be something else going on that you don't know. There could be allergies, you know, other stomach issues that you know when we have a a stomach ache, we don't want to eat and maybe they're just too young to like be able to explain what's going on in their body. And that's when you would need to talk with other professionals. Because if they really are starving, then there's a bigger issue at hand there you know. So hopefully the pediatrician can get them to the right places.
Hilary: Yeah, that's great. OK. One more question for you. One more hot topic here. I know that snacks is another tricky one for parents. So when to offer snacks, how many snacks are OK? Because I think sometimes you have these kids that like, that's how they're surviving is on snacks. So then when they do get to meal time, they're not hungry realistically because they've had so many snacks offered. I mean, nutritionally, do kids need snacks and what do we want that to look like in our home? Yeah.
Jess: That's a really good question. The recommendation for children is 3 meals and two snacks offered throughout the day, but you're right in saying like if we feed them a snack at 4 and dinner is at 5 or big and be hungry for dinner, most likely not. So we want to be like strategic and when we're offering these foods. You know, so say they go to preschool. You feed them breakfast, they go for half a day and then it's lunch. Maybe they have a nap, and then you go for a snack and then a few hours later, it's dinner time. Like, set them up for success. You know, if we want them to be hungry for dinner, then we don't want to be feeding them. Right before dinner happens. You know, I know all of this is easier said than done. So we do need to again give ourselves grace, because if your child's coming to. You like I'm. So you know, is it paying like, OK, well, I'm going to feed you right now, you know, but maybe they can wait her father, maybe they can wait 20 minutes or so, you know? But we just want to be careful. And when we're offering food.
Jen: I’m just thinking, there was a coworker she used to have just a basket of fruit on the counter, and when they came and asked can I have something after they already had their little snack, you know, you can have a piece of fruit. And that was most of the time enough to. Say no, I can wait but. You know it was. Like if you're OK with them having it, or if they come well here, let me cut a banana in half and you can have half of a banana here, yeah.
Jess: I think what we. Mostly want to steer away is from that, like grazing, you know, just like having whatever food accessible 24/7, you know the grease and then they're not getting those meals. Yeah, I think that's sometimes where we need to be careful. OK. Yeah.
Hilary: All right, well. I got a lot to work on.
Jess: It’s hard and especially if you've already been doing something a certain way, any type of like change is going to be difficult for the child and the parent, you know, so it's just, you know, starting out small, making like little changes. And again, thinking about what is your ultimate goal here for yourself and your, do you want your child to, you know, learn these healthy habits so they can carry them on into adulthood or whatever your goal may be? Have that in the back of your mind, so hopefully it doesn't seem like. Super long but it is hard
Hilary: And maybe you can speak to this as well too. I like that you bring up Jess. I mean, there's probably a lot of a lot of you listening out there that are thinking well, crap. My child's 10. Like can I start now? You know. And they still think there are little things we can do. It's not that we have to, you know, throw our hands in the air and say, well, it is what it is. I guess they're just going to eat chicken Nuggets for the rest of their life. So we can still implement those little skills.
Jess: Yeah, just little things. This is kind of like going back a few steps, but like introducing or even like getting your child to try it. You can cook it with like starch or butter or you know something? Like that or dextrose? Glucose. Essentially, like, you know all that sugar? Yeah. Get them to kind of, like, get that taste for it and then slowly taper it off. You know, so they get you said that's one strategy. Obviously, we don't always want to be putting these extra calorie son. But if we can get them used to it and then kind of taper it, that's, you know, just one little small thing that we can do that can make like a bigger impact down there.
Hilary: And I think that's the power. Like I have a good friend who I've had dinner at her home a handful of times and. She will always offer a wide variety of vegetables and I will eat them at her house and think. By golly, these are amazing here. Why don't taste like this, but she knows she has the skill of being able to cook them. However, I mean, and I know that sometimes that includes, you know, sautéing and marinating. And like you said, adding some spices and whatnot, but I think a lot of being, a lot of cooking is creativity and knowing those skills and techniques because, yeah, we can offer a blank boiled vegetable as is, or we can find a way a different way. It does make a difference.
Jen: There was that whole craze of hiding cauliflower and hiding vegetables and things.
Hilary: Yes, I remember that.
Jen: And so you can get creative. I mean, there's cookbooks out there that tell you how to do it.
Hilary: Yeah. Yeah. So seeking out those there's resources out there. Yeah, I mean open up the Pinterest app and you'll be bombarded with lots of ideas of how to incorporate some creativity with your kids. I just, I'm thinking, you know, I don't know how my girls stumbled upon. They found a video about a dragon fruit, which I have never tried them out before. Have you ever had Dragon Fruit before?
Jen: Do they even sell them here?
Hilary: They're very expensive because they don't offer them that they somehow decided in their head like we must have this fruit. This has got to be the best fruit on the planet. And so we found it at the store. It was quite expensive. So I said we will buy this one thing. And one thing only. Because it was like quadruple what I would have bought anywhere else but we bought it and we cut it open. And we all tried it and I won't be honest with you, it was mediocre at best. But they were so excited because they came up with the idea. They went to the store with me and we felt like it was part of the experience. And so I think. Even though it's frustrating to still be working with these older kids, I think you have that added benefit of take them with you. Have them look up the recipes have them help you make the meals we may. Not be able to offer our two and three. It's that much responsibility, but with other kids we can't. We can pull out a cookbook and we can say look through that cookbook. And you find what sounds good to you and then we'll go shopping together and you can help me. Pick out all the ingredients for it.
Jess: That is a wonderful way to get your child involved if they are involved in one way or another. Even if it's just going to the grocery store holding up an apple and orange and having them point to which one they want this, they might be more likely to eat it and again like. Older ones, and if they hit like 5 river you can give them a butter knife and they can let bananas you know they feel special when they're involved in the process and they, you know, feel proud like look what I did. So they're more likely to eat that fit. So that's I'm so glad you mentioned that because that is a wonderful way to introduce foods and get them excited about it, I think it's always a good idea to make this as pleasant as and you know, make. It a fun experience, there's, you know, fun things you can do if you'd like, put it in. A muffin tin instead of on a plate. It's something different, you know. Or you could play. It's like ice. Spicy, but like high taste. You know the different flavors make it a game. You could have a picnic either inside or outside, just you know making it associating positively.
Jen: Have a book that is like 500 activities you can do with your kids. That don't involve TV. And my husband looked through it and he was trying to figure out. Something he could do with. His daughter and they decided to do a food tasting gating, so they went to the grocery store and that's what they did. They went to the fruits and vegetables and. Got all of the weird.
Hilary: Yeah, one that you would never think buy
Jen: I just remember the cactus. And yeah, but there were some other I think they got a ginger Root, I mean just different things that you normally and then they had a little game to where they did a taste test.
Hilary: Umm, so I'm fine with my kids that like, especially with snacks, we have a pantry and it has snacks and they tend to go to. The pre packaged sugary snacks that are easy to grab and go, but if I can make an effort to cut up some fruits and some vegetables and even to like display them in a cute way on a board, like if it's out and it is new and enticing, they are. They will take it. You know, if I just have an apple sitting in the pantry, that's probably the last thing that they'll touch. But if I pull that apple out and I cut it up and I assemble it and you know, create a charcuterie board based. On like it completely. Changes it and so I think even putting in. A little bit of effort to like prepare and assemble it. Will make a difference. I love this. This is good. OK. So Jess as we're kind of wrap. Bring up any final tips that you would offer to parents.
Jess: I kind of just really want to hit home to staying positive and I know that's easier said than done. But again, our children pick up on our emotions and our senses, so if we are just like dreading mealtime or dreading whatever it is about. A food they're going to like sense that. So do your best to make it a positive experience. Celebrate those small successes. Yeah, I don't know. I think that. We just need to keep in mind that we are doing our best, you know. And not every experience is. To be. Positive and realize that as well, but making it as positive as we can and take it day by day. Often times, for me at least, I feel like when I make a goal I get so excited about it in the beginning and I'm going to do this right now today and it's going to just go perfect. And then we don't like, I don't like this anymore. I'm going to stop. And if I do like something really small, like make the change. I can build upon that and you know it grows and it just it becomes a habit. So, I think not trying to do too much at once will be your friend. As well, but. Maybe you are that type of person that's. Like doing it is done overnight and more power to you. If you’re anything like me, it's gonna take time. And think about this as. You know, a lifelong thing. Eating doesn't go away. You have to do it. Your children have to do it, so we may as well make it as pleasant as we can.
Hilary :We love it.
Jen: Well, it's reminding me of that podcast we did a bit ago about. Instead of goals having themes. Ohh yes, in the year and so maybe having a theme of trying new things, eating and throw food in there as well. Make it a family goal or not a family goal, a family theme, yeah. That way you can do that encompasses a lot of different things, but. We want to thank you so much for joining us today and we thank want to thank Jessica for coming and giving us all this great information about our picky eaters and how we can help them out. We hope that you've had a great day. And remind you to be kind and patient with yourselves and we'll see you next week.
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2. https://youtu.be/oecQiEkzgm4?si=WMKzWdz0ssvytEpp 3. https://youtu.be/s1KvNv4Jxqw?si=irGC_9iJyH2tz5L6
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