Life has a way of turning everything upside down and changing your perception of everything up to that point. In this Episode, we dive into a heavy topic as we talk about Lee's Story of finding out her husbands abuse of a young child. She walks us through the shock, sadness, guilt as well as the strengths, and hope that pulled her through
Lee is amazing and we are endlessly grateful for her sharing her story with us.
Trigger Warning: Child sexual abuse, child abuse.
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Hey listeners, this episode contains discussions on sensitive topics that may be difficult to hear and may not be suitable for young ears. Check our show notes for more specific details of what is covered in this episode. Take care of yourself.
Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. Today we have a special guest with us today. This is our stories of resilience that we do once a month. And as you guys know, Jen and I have grown to love because we are able to learn lessons from individuals that we wouldn't have been able to know otherwise. And so, we're so grateful for our guests that come and share their story and share their insight and make us better individuals because of it. And so, we have Lee with us today and grateful that she is here and able to spend the next few minutes with us. So Lee, I will just turn the time over to you and tell us a little bit about you and then if you want to dive a little bit into your story, do that as well too.
Lee: Alright, well thank you. I'm Lee and I'm old, but old enough to know better. I've been around the block a few times but yeah, I don't know. I think I'll just kind of dive in. I don't want to give you too much information I’ve lived in the valley for a while, so. In February of 2017, I’d been married almost 35 years to my husband. And we just had a really great Christmas. Usually he was very critical of the kids and what they did, and it was just like the best Christmas we had had forever. And we had bought an RV and we were making plans for the summer and it was just like, you know, every year you always go, this year will be better, and then we had COVID and all that stuff. So it's like, oh, it's a crapshoot now. But I just was like, you know, every year I always think this is gonna be a better year. We'll do this and that. I so I thought everything was going well and one of my children came and asked me to come to their house and started asking me questions about their child and relationship to their grandfather. And I was like, what are you talking about? You know what I mean? Like, I had no idea. Like I was like, like, did they make a are they thinking of somebody else because they have many people in their lives, you know, other people you know. So I was like, are they mixing this up or what's going on? But I guess their child had gone to their mother and said that their grandpa had touched them. It was a really rough week for that child. They were at daycare and one of the kids exposed themselves to them, so they had this big talked about, good touch, bad touch, which thank goodness they did because after the incident happened and I think there was some grooming before this, but I. Yeah, I had no idea. They had stayed with their grandpa overnight and the next day they went and talked to their mom about it. And they took them directly to a therapist and confirmed it and five days later, he was in jail. And I literally would have given him the grandpa of the year award. I was totally gob-smacked, totally like. I mean, it was just like everything that we knew was just turned upside down. Devastation like you know, and I felt like he was getting along with this child better because he didn't really have a very good relationship with our children. And so I, yeah, it was just. It was hard. So the other thing I think that was difficult was once he went to jail before he went to prison, I told him, I said I am not talking to your family about this. You need to call your mother and tell her what happened. I am not doing this so I kept telling him, you know, you need to do this. You need to do this. Well, hey, we live in a small community. And I mean his mother and relatives lived a couple hours. Away so it wasn't like it was right there, but an aunt found out and went over to his mother's house. And said, hey, what's going on? And she had no idea. I mean, so that was another. It was like horrifying, and so I had to call his mother and apologize and say, hey, I'm so sorry. You know, I asked him and asked him to call you about this. And of course, you know, I was always the one that made everything better. I was a peacekeeper. So of course, he just was letting it leaving it to me and that was one thing I wouldn't do. But anyway, his sister called me and I thought ohh, you know how supportive you know? So I answered the phone. And she ripped me a new one, like just up and down. And how long have you known about this? And I go are you kidding? Like I did not know, but you know, you look back and there are certain signs that were there, but. You just don't like, think about that but. Yeah, it was. It was insane. I finally hung up on her. She I just was like I'm done. I'm done talking. And I knew from the start that I was not going to stay with him. I was going to, I was going to get divorced, but he kept for some reason he just thought because I've dealt with all of his crap for all these years, I mean 35 years we were married. And I was. He was like, oh, well, we probably have to move. And I'm like, oh, I don't think so. You could move, but I was still processing. I really didn't know what to say, and I didn't want to say anything yet, cause we still kind of needed to see what was going to happen and all of this. But I was like, I'm cutting myself loose from you and your family, like I'm done. Like I have done everything that I possibly could do to keep this family together and to make things work and you know, like in my brain, I was like, I don't want Satan to win, but inevitably he kind of did, you know. We were going through all of this and. I cannot believe what had happened to me. So, like literally over the next couple months, I broke my arm, my dog bit my grandson. And so I had to put her down. I just had a laundry list of things that had happened. To me, I was like, OK, if like this one thing wasn't bad enough. Like, seriously, I don't really need all of this. But I just felt like I was in this tornado, like everything. I was stuck in the middle of all of these events happening around me and. It was just it was horrifying. You know, it's horrifying how somebody's decisions can just upend your life and such a terrible way. So one of the questions. I mean, I guess I'll power through. I'll I have my questions for me.
Hilary: I was going to say you're welcome to continue, but let me just let me just say before you to do, Lee. You know, hearing this story for our audience out there and for you yourself, I'm sure, you know at the Family Place, one of our main objectives at the Family Place is to help prevent child abuse and neglect. And if abuse and neglect has happened to give children and families the support and the help that they need in that time of time of trauma. And a one of the things that I'm so grateful for you is that when this child did say something initially to his parents and then to you. You guys rallied towards this child. You believe them. You believe this story. And that doesn't happen all the time. And so, the fact that you guys said, you know what we believe you, we need to do something about this. We need to ensure that you are safe. Thank you for doing that because we don't do that enough for our kids.
Lee: Yeah. Oh, of course. Well, we had no, I mean, even as unbelievable as it was, we believed them, you know. So yeah, yeah, it was. It was pretty traumatizing for everybody.
Hilary: But they have a good support system
Lee: Oh, I know, I know. I'm so grateful for that.
Hilary: Go ahead. Sorry to interrupt you.
Lee: No, no, no, no, that's good. They need to know that that's available. I think. The most horrifying thing too, is after all this happened, and it was in the newspapers. It seemed like every day I would hear of other people. Like in their 50s like we were in our 50s when this happened. Like child abuse, like all these men and I'm like, Oh my gosh, it was like an epidemic. I still think it is when it's like it's just it's just frightening and saddening and like awful. So, one of the questions was like what strengths, sorry.
Jen: You're fine.
Lee: What strengths did I have to help me push through. I really didn't think I needed a Kleenex, but maybe I do. Anyway I really channeled my mother's strength. My mother was this sweet little farm girl and we are of the Mormon persuasion, and she was such a good mother. Such a good she just, her dedication to the Mormon faith and her testimony was so strong. And she loved us so much she did everything for us. She was she did too much for us. She should have tough loved us a lot more. Which I did, I tough loved my kids so anyway. But she was she had to forge through a lot, and my parents got divorced late in life, almost like about the same time that I ended up divorcing my husband. Anyway, I thought of her often. She passed away before I turned 30, and I had an older brother that was, I was really close to and he actually passed away for all this. Before all this happened. So they were my huge support system and they were both dead when this happened. So, it was, I kind of felt like I had no one because, you know, I didn't. It was a hard thing to talk to my children about and the one child that it happened to. They were so angry and upset and like I would talk to them a little bit, but I didn't. I didn't want to make it worse or, you know, the anger and you know, sadness and everything. I just, it was just hard to find somebody to talk to. I have to tell you that. I didn't realize how bad of a hoarder he was until he was gone and there was so much junk in the house and I would literally so I needed to clean it out and I would go out to the garage and I would look and it was so overwhelming. I just would look out there and I'd be like, Nope, not today. And I went back inside. Started watching Netflix again, just went on the couch like I couldn't do it like I but like one day I was sitting there and I thought you know nobody's going to do this for you. You have to do this. And so that's when I started thinking about my mother, who did such hard things in her life that she never thought that she would have to do and she had health problems and but she worked like every day she would get up and just clean the house or do projects. I mean, she never sat on the couch and watched Netflix, probably because we didn't have Netflix back then, but she just never did that. So, I thought the only way this is going to get done, is I have to do it. So, I thought you know what? I can get a box and I can fill a box if I just do fill one box a day like I just and then it was two boxes and you know some days there was just one box and some day, but it was always one box. Some days it was more, but that's what like got me through it. And I just knew that I had to do it myself. And I think one of the best things is, I had a friend who told me about a therapist that did. Like they were for like sexual kind of things, but they helped the people that were dealing with that and I remember going to him and he, I'm so glad I did because he it was really good to be able to go and talk to people. And I'd be like, you know, what the hell you know, there he is in prison, like, doing fun stuff like learning how to play the guitar. And here I am paying bills and doing all this crappy stuff I said that doesn't seem fair, you know. But he would just laugh at me. I was like, yeah, I said I'm mad. Yeah, he's doing this stuff, and I'm like, still having to clean up his mess. But. Yeah, that was.
Hilary: But giving you the permission to feel mad and to be able to express it. I think that that's powerful because I think so often we as individuals. Don't feel like we have that permission, so I love that you found that and you found that ability to say, you know what? This sucks and it's unfair and it's not OK. And I think all of those feelings are valid.
Lee: Yeah, he got a lot of those. He got a lot of those valid feelings. If I'd go in every day going, what the heck is going on? You know? But it was, it helped a lot. And I'm very thankful for my friend that that like pushed me to that. And I thought yeah, I really do need to do that and get that done, you know and help. But I did have like I did have like supportive family and I just have to say that when something like this happens, you. Truly know who your friends are. Because they are the they are people that come out of the woodwork. That just want to know The Dirty deets and I'm like, really no. And I'm not from Utah like, so I'm very like, I'm from the East Coast, so I'm not this sweet, nice wear twin set sweater person. You know I am. I'm like, I'm sarcastic and I like. I was like not putting up with that but that helped too, that you know I, you know. Cause I think people here are so nice and they don't know what to say and they don't know how to stand up for themselves. And when something like this happens. Like yeah, it totally devastated me, but I knew that I had to. It was up to me to get past this. I had to do this. And I have to say that. I am grateful every day for the religion in my life and to know that God truly loves me, no matter where I am in life. That was really helpful and everybody that was in my ward, I literally felt their prayers. I mean like. I had all. This stuff happened. I mean like after all that happened. I literally broke my arm in half. Like I had never broken anything in my life.
Hilary: And it has to happen then right?
Lee: Yeah its’s like. Thank you. God, I don't have enough going on. Thank you for letting me have some more things to figure out on my own, but you know. Yeah, I think what? I'm very independent and I had to let people help me. So maybe that was my lesson to learn is to have people help me because I don't mind helping other people. I just don't want them to help me. Yeah.
Jen: It's really hard to accept that help. It is. It is a lesson that lots of us have to learn.
Lee: Oh my gosh. I remember I needed help because I had a big yard and a big house. And I remember going on my ward Facebook asking for help, bawling tears like bawling, bawling, bawling, typing that out, that I needed help. It was so hard. But now, I now I ask people for help all the time, so now they're sad that I got that down. No, I'm just kidding. But no, I just remember that that was so traumatic to have to ask, but everybody was, so it was. I really. I am very thankful for my community and my ward. They were amazing.
Hilary: Yeah, Lee, you bring up. I love this talk about people because we hear this time and time again on our stories of resilience that one of the biggest things that that has helped individuals go through these tough trials is their community is their tribe is their people. But I love how you talked about focusing on something that you had control over because as you said like it was up to me, I had to do it. And I think so often when we get caught in these turbulent times, it's really easy to focus on what's happened or what's continuing to happen. That's outside of our control that we can do nothing about. But I love that you said I looked at that garage and I said to myself, one box. I can do that. I have control over putting those items in that box and packing them up and sending them on their way, and I think that's a powerful message to send that. Like start small. Start simple and start with something that you can do. And then build from there. If you can, like you said, sometimes it was two boxes. Sometimes we went back to one, sometimes it was just Netflix for the day and. That's OK. Yeah, like we're gonna have good days and bad days. But that's OK.
Lee: Yeah. And Netflix was my buddy. That's for damn sure. Yeah, I was like, what can I watch now? OK. Yeah, it and to tell you the truth. It's empowering. Do you mean to be like, OK, I can get past this because you're getting acted upon and you can only you have to find that in yourself to not be acted upon like this is something that I need to do that I can do. I'll tell you, I hate yard sales, garage sales and you know what I did is I didn't put one price on anything. I put it all out. I had people come. There was no prices and they were like, oh, would you take this? And it would be like sometimes I'd be like, no, I need a little bit more. But I looked at every single item and was like, that's something that I don't have to physically take off my property. So that was fantastic. I was like Ohh can I give you a dollar for this $50 item? You sure can! Bye! And it is like you get. Kind of stuck with possessions. I mean, some of them were mine. A lot of them were. But actually the ones that were his were really easy to let go. It's like a dollar. Sure. You can just take a whole load with you, here’s a box. Yeah, but yeah, it was. Yeah, it was really empowering and really because I could, that was one of the things that I could do and not be acted upon.
Jen: I think so often we try to control everything that we have absolutely no control over. And we forget about all of the things that we do have control, and we can get lost in that space of trying to control those things that are out of our realm or our ability to control and I just love that you're like this empowered me to move forward, to continue to do 1 box at a time and ask for help and all those things. You were really focusing on those things that you can control and. Yeah, it's just that is super empowering.
Lee: Thank you. I have a best friend back east and she was telling me this quote, she says. I want to get this tattooed and she goes its “ Let’s go Let’s God. And so, she we both got that tattoo and I try to remember that all the time because there's some things that you just can't. You know, control and it is I, I yeah. There's a lot of people that I see that try to control every little piece of their life and I'm. Like wow, that's exhausting. You know what I mean? Sometimes you just have to go. OK, that's just not gonna happen, you know. Yeah, I found that out the hard way, but it is kind of crazy but. I really do. I feel a lot stronger now. Unfortunately sometimes I feel like I'm harder now, like I think. I mean, I was married for 37 years before I got divorced. And I'm like, so. But you know, I'm so happy on my own. I'm so. Like I'm content with myself, I'm content. I have a wonderful my dogs got me through it and. I love going home to my dog because she doesn't complain about what I give her for dinner. She gets her kibble. And sometimes I'll put a little extra, extra in there, but she doesn't mean sometimes you don't like it? And it's like so sorry about that, and maybe if I'm nice, I'll go get her a McDonald's hamburger, but you know, some days I don't. And we're OK with that. At least I'm OK with that, she doesn't do anything otherwise.
Hilary: You know, the dog may not be OK. With that but ok. I'd love to. You know, and we always make the assumption that someone in our audience is maybe going through a similar experience, whether that be a divorce, whether that be someone disclosing abuse in the family that we were unfamiliar with, what you've offered, lots of advice and so this may be duplicated. But any other additional advice that you would offer to somebody that is in the middle of a dramatic situation that's similar to yours?
Lee: You know, I think. The most difficult part of things like this that happen is other people's actions affect you. And that's and that is, that's horrible. Like, you know, what they do can directly affect. You in your life. Which is so sometimes it can be positive things that they affect you, but the negative ones are devastating and all I can say is surround your people, surround yourself with the best people that you can surround yourself with. And like I said, you know who your friends are. Your true friends are. They are ones that care about you and don't ask for the nitty gritty details, but I think. I think that the biggest thing is. How I got through is that God, I know that God loves me and cares for me about what was going on. And he loves and cares about you, no matter if you go to the Mormon church or the Catholic Church or you go to the Church in the mountains like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He loves you no matter what and he wants to help you. And he wants you to have the best life. And I have to say that whatever you can do. You know, if you read the Bible, you read the Book of Mormon, go there and find positive affirmations, find people that are going to build you up and tell you, you're going to make it. You know if it's somebody at church, or if it's your best friend or anything be kind to others. You know what I mean? Like, I'm kind to everybody about except the people who don't know how to drive very well. And then I have a little road rage, but that's me. But I do. I have, I try to be kind there. I mean, it's like, since the pandemic, it's like people are so hateful, like we do not. You do not know what they're going through and just keep going. I think one of the most important things too that I have found to is to pray. And after you do, just sit quietly for a minute.
Hilary: Which we don't do enough either and nowadays so.
Lee: A lot of times, like, well, a lot of times, like when I don't know what to pray about like I'll go. You know, help me and then. You'll have different answers come. Of things to ask or oh maybe I should do this and it's just, yeah. It's hard. It's hard to get through. But you know what? You're going to get through it and sometimes. You'll get through it in ways that you don't expect. Like life will give you different turns and you'll think you know you're trying to control it and you're trying to think. Well, this is what I need to have happen, don't be so controlling. Let it happen and things will work down they need and not in ways that you expect and. And just remember that there are many, many people who love you and care for you and want you to do well and I always say God is our biggest cheerleader, you know, no matter what you believe, if you believe in a higher power, they love you and respect you and want your best.
Hilary: Yeah, Amen! That's right. You know, you talk about these people rallying towards you. And I think that's one of the hardest things is when we see someone dealing with something tough. We're like, what do I say? What do I do? How do I help? Was there any anything that you remember going through the situation of something that was said or done for You that that really helped in the moment or in the long term?
Lee: I and this is kind of more sorry religious as far as the Mormons, but I literally I was so stressed because he was getting out of jail. And he called and talked to me in that voice that just almost made me powerless. Like I'm going to do this, and I'm going to sue you, and I'm going to do and I was like, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Ohh and I went to our stake president that knew both of us, really. Well, and I felt guilt for the divorce and guilt for a lot of things, you know what I mean. And I went to him and I said. I need a blessing because I'm freaking out and he, like, you know, whoever is in the in the LDS Church, they'll sit down with you and they'll ask you questions and say, OK, what's going on? He didn't even do that. He just cause, well, he knew me and knew what was going on and. He literally gave the most powerful blessing and like he, he let me know that God knew that I was doing what I needed to do. Do you mean like and it helped me so much. As far as not feeling that guilt like you know. And not feeling like I felt OK and I would remember that remember what he said that, hey, God is pleased with you. You just keep doing what you need to do and that has got me through these years. It was like if I do start to feel. Well, I don't anymore. But those first few years it was, it was so powerful. So, I think. You know, just trying to rely on a higher power rely on, you know, if you have. You know, people in your life that want your best interest, and that's like, that's the hardest too is, you know, a lot of people have agendas and you learn quickly who does. But you know, you need to move towards the people that have that love and light in your life, you need to move to them. You know, like you said, there are people there at where you are that can help you and they may be the people that you need. They may be the people that will give you that guidance and light and unconditional like love and experience. Because that's important to have sometimes talk to people who don't have in something in the game, you know, because. Sometimes they have an agenda and you need to find people that you know don't that just are there for you and to help you get through so. Anyway, thanks a whole lot. I have to go back to work and I've been crying now so.
Hilary: That's exactly what we wanted to have happen.
Lee: You know, work makes me cry sometimes too. So they may not notice anything different. But did you did you guys have any other questions for me? This has been really a good experience because I do put things. Like I move on and like I said, I think that's one of my superpowers that and sometimes you don't deal with everything and you still and you kind of move on. But there may be other things that you need to deal with. But I thank you for letting me be able to tell this and thank you cause I do. I feel like it was cathartic and cleansing and I hope that maybe what I went through helps other people cause this is not fun. This is I wouldn't wish this on my worst and well, maybe my worst enemy, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't wish this on just these poor people that you know are just. You know, out of the blue, like, boom, other people's decisions hurting and hurting their lives and other people around them. So anyway.
Hilary: I guarantee that hearing this story has helped many people Lee so thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Lee: Oh you so much.
Jen: Alright, thank you so much for coming today and speaking with us. You know, you say you're sarcastic and things like that, but I really do love your sense of humor. And I can see how that could get you through really hard times, so I appreciate you coming and sharing. I think having these discussions are super important, especially when it comes to our children of letting individuals know that, you know, our kids are really dealing with some things that kids should never have to deal with. And the more we talk about it. And help others understand that's how we can help that one child one time that one child at a time. So, appreciate that that thank you.
Lee: No, thank you.
Jen: Love to thank our listeners for coming today and listening. If you have any questions, please reach out to us and we are happy to get those answers for you. We hope you have a great day and we will see you next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place podcast. If you would like to reach us, you can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly - the Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is thefamilyplaceutah.org if you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes. We'd love to see you there!
Episode Notes and Resources:
2. See similar episodes for help with body autonomy.
Episode 133. Guest Chris Yadon
Episode 1. Child Abuse Prevention with Hilary.
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