This episode features Hilary Anderson, an expert in abuse prevention. Parents often struggle with how to talk to their children about abuse prevention. Some of these struggles include what's too much or not enough information or how to even start the conversation. Hilary helps break down these topics and gives parents the tools they need to know how to have those hard conversations.
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Jen: Hello and welcome to the Parent’s Place, a podcast put out by the Family Place for parents to develop skills that will strengthen families and provide tools that will help each of us in our parenting efforts, no matter our skills. We can always use reminders that help us work towards a safer, happier home. I'm your host. Jennifer Daly, the Education Director at the Family Place and my co-host is Sara Hendricks, a family educator at the Family Place. Every week, we will interview professionals that will provide valuable information that will make a difference when you apply it directly to your life. Thank you for joining us. Now, let's get started with today's episode.
Sara: A big hello to all of our listeners, I'm your host, Sarah Hendricks, along with my co-host Jen Daly. Say Hi, Jen!
Jen: Hi!
Sara: I've got to say I'm super excited for our guest interview today. I can't think of a better way to kick off a brand-new podcast than to have our first episode feature our dear friend and co-worker Hilary Anderson. Hilary has been an employee at The Family Place for 14 years, where she supervises the kids empowered program, which will have her tell us more about here in a minute. She also teaches relationship courses through Utah State University and is an expert in her field. Welcome, Hilary. We're so glad to have you!
Hilary: Glad to be here! Thank you!
Jen: OK, so today we're going to be talking about child abuse prevention. Hilary, tell us what is Kids Empowered and why it is something that needs to be talked about with kids?
Hilary: Well, again, let me just say thank you for having me here and for giving me the opportunity to talk about a topic that, although it may be hard and somewhat uncomfortable to discuss, is incredibly important! As was said, I've been working with The Family Place for close to 15 years, primarily working in the area of prevention and education. And I am a firm believer that knowledge truly is power! We, as parents, teachers and community members are proactive when it comes to teaching kids about seatbelts, safety, about stranger danger confrontations, fire dangers. When it comes to having a conversation about body safety, we tend to shy away. So, Kids Empowered is a state school board approved, developmentally appropriate program that educates children on body safety. For younger individuals, we talk to them about the different kinds of touches. We talk to them about safe touches versus unsafe touches. What those look like and how they would make us feel. We discuss inappropriate touching of private body parts, as well as the steps that they need to take in order to be safe. For older students, we introduce them to the various types of abuse, as well as practical steps to recognize, resist and report the abuse.
Years ago, we did somewhat of an informal study in Cache Valley, and when we asked parents if they talked to their kids regularly about body safety. Only 40 percent said “Yes”. And when we asked them, “why not?” Most of the answers we received were not because they didn't feel like it was important or because they didn't see it as an issue in our world. It was basically because parents did not know where to even begin. They were worried about saying too much. They were worried about not saying enough. And the idea of opening that conversation just made them incredibly apprehensive. Last year, there were three hundred and sixty six substantiated cases of child abuse in Cache Valley, and we all know that we live in a wonderful, safe place. But the reality is, is that we are not immune to the problem. And so, I am so grateful that we have programs let Kids Empowered that we can introduce in our elementary schools so that we can give our children the knowledge and tools that they need in order to be safe.
Sara: I love that! You know, it's interesting because there's been a lot of hype on social media lately in regards to human trafficking. I think there's a lot of parents who truly fear there are tricky people out there targeting families in grocery stores and snatching kids. And while I don't want to downplay that in any way because I'm sure it does happen. Tell us how is your focus on child abuse prevention different from human trafficking? And is one more concerning than the other that parents need to be proactive in preventing?
Hilary: That is a really great question! And while our Kids Empowered program doesn't specifically address human trafficking at the time, we hope that some of the overarching concepts could help with situations regards specifically to trafficking. One thing that we discuss is the perpetrators use of secrets of manipulation, which we know is a large part of human trafficking. And so we recognize that that there are many topics that need to be discussed and we just can't due to time constraints in the elementary schools. But we hope by offering students universal safety rules that students can apply those rules to most situations that they encounter where they feel unsafe. We know that the number one rising crime in Cache County is sex crimes against children. I attended a training a few years ago where we were having a discussion about the rates of child abuse and the rates of reporting. And one of the individuals asked a question about “Do we feel like there's more child abuse now than there was before? Are we getting better at reporting? Help us to understand these statistics.” And it was interesting because the instructor said, “Yes, I do feel like we're getting better at reporting. I feel like we're having this conversation more than we happened in the past. But I do feel like the main problem that we're encountering in our day is that perpetrators now have access to our children more access than they ever have before. And the reason is because of media and technology.” So why do we need to remain proactive when it comes to the basics where I think we really need to draw more attention and focus to is when it comes to safety in the media
Jen: That’s really great Hilary! As a parent, I always think about how do I bring this up with my kids? It's not like we're a super open family, but we are somewhat open. And so for those parents out there that are maybe a little bit more conservative or this is a harder topic to talk about with their children, how would you have parents talk about abuse prevention with their kids?
Hilary: Oh, you know, it's funny because we often we joke, and we often refer to this conversation as “The Talk”, giving us this idea that that there should be a one time, cringe worthy, conversation where we share any and all information needed for their 18 years of life in one sit down visit. And it's silly for us to think that we need to do that because the reality is that it's not a one time dialogue, it's a continual conversation. And when it comes to that, I would suggest that we start simple. That's really the key. 18 month to two year old children, they start to get curious about their body. And so at that point, we start to have conversations. We have a conversation about the differences between males and females. We start to help them to understand about private body parts, and we name those parts of their body. That may lead into a discussion about body ownership. But really, it's start with small amounts of information. And after that information is shared, pause and ask the question, “Does that make sense??” If your child seems content, the conversation may be over for a time. But if they ask more questions, provide more information, and remember that it's OK to say, “I'm not sure how to answer that question. Let me think about it. I will let you know.” It's important for us to recognize that although we may squirm as we mention and discuss certain topics, for these children, these are new words. These are just new words to add to their vocabulary bank. So I know that for a lot of parents, they really struggle when it comes to naming their child's body parts and using anatomically correct language, which we feel is incredibly important. And so for us to say those words may be incredibly difficult, but for kids, their penis is just another part of their body that serves a specific purpose, just like their arms and their legs. And so continue to have those conversations, keep them simple, keep them brief, but be open and available for them to come.
Sara: I love that! as a parent, I know I've experienced that it's kind of uncomfortable when a small child uses that anatomically correct language. But one thing that I think about is if it's uncomfortable for me, it's going to be uncomfortable for a predator who knows that child knows how to name their private body parts, and it's going to deter them from hurting that child because that child will be able to explain what has happened to them. So I love that it's so important to teach our children the anatomically correct words for their body parts. So along with that, can you give us some ideas of how we can talk to our kids about abuse prevention in an age appropriate way?
Hilary: Yeah! So I think one of the biggest keys when we talk about abuse prevention with our kids going along with the previous comment, is to search for those what we referred to as teachable moments in our day. If you are changing your infant's diaper and your younger child walks in instead of just changing it as you normally do narrate what you're doing for that younger child, you say something like “I need to change Sam's diaper because it's stinky and I'm helping Sam because he's a baby and he can't do this on his own.” When you're bathing younger children before washing their body, ask permission. “I'm going to wash your arms and your legs. Now it's time to wash your private parts, are you OK if I help you with that? Or would you rather do that on your own?” And then throw in, “You know what? Remember, private body parts are the parts of your body that are not for sharing. No one should ever be tricking you to show or touch those parts.” And so you can see that it's not an awkward sit down. We need to have a talk, but we're doing it throughout the routine parts of our day. We're finding those moments where it just makes sense to bring it up and to discuss it.
My favorite piece of advice for older children is I think you can open up so many conversations when you're watching television or movies together. Because you can look for those opportunities to discuss things in regards to safety, but also to discuss the general values of your home. You know, as you're watching a movie in and you have a couple, you can say to them, “How do you feel about that couple? How do you feel about their relationship? Do you feel like it's a safe relationship and why not?” And your child might look at you silly, but I think it's OK to have that dialogue between you as a parent and a child. We just had a fairly horrific experience that that most of our community is familiar with when it comes to a social media app called Tik-Tok. And most teens are familiar with the situation that happened. And so it wouldn't be an inappropriate thing for us to do when our child comes home from school to be able to say, “Did you happen to hear about this? And how do you feel about it? Have that communication open. Have that door always open. You know, if they come to us with questions and we brush it aside, they're going to go to somebody else to get those questions answered. Whether that's a friend, someone on the bus, someone that may not have the most accurate information that we want to give them.
I had a really interesting situation a few years ago as I was teaching an older grade level. And one of the students asked me a question about rape, which isn't a topic that we normally bring up as part of our conversation. But because that child asked me, I wanted to find out the foundation of where this question was coming from. And so I asked the group that group of fifth grade students, "How many of you guys have ever heard of that word before?” And I probably had about 90 percent of the students raise their hand saying that, “Yes”, they had heard of that phrase, that word. But then I asked the question, “How many of you guys actually know what that word means?” And no one raised their hand. And to me, that was a really good reminder for myself that kids are hearing this. Kids are hearing these phrases, they're hearing these words, and they may not be getting the right answers. And so let us be those ones that can give them that information, that right information. Because they're going to find it one way or another. And we want them to be able to come to us and we want them to be able to ask questions because questions are good. Questions create thinking.
Jen: It reminded me of a time when I was sitting down and watching television with my stepdaughter and there was a scene on the television that wasn't quite the greatest scene. And so I remember my husband stopping the show and he said, “Now let's talk about this. Does that look like a healthy relationship between to two adults, or does that look like a healthy relationship that they are displaying there on our show?” And I remember his daughter saying, “Well, no, but why?” And so it just gave that opportunity for him to explain what our morals and values are within our home and make sure that she was understanding what was really going on. So we talk a lot about the sad things that may come along with the abuse and what's happening to kids. But I know there's lots of success stories out there. And so, I was wondering, is there a success story that you can share where a child learned the information and then realized what was happening to them and the way that they were able to get help?
Hilary: Yes, most definitely! There's one particular experience that that comes to my mind. I was teaching a third grade classroom and one of the students, a male student, had disclosed that he was being abused by his father. And so as part of our protocol that we follow when it comes to when the disclosure of abuse has been made, we pull that child aside after the matter where the rest of the students aren't there. And we like to find out some basic details regarding the situation as well as the support that the child currently has. And so when I asked the child if he had ever told anyone else about that abuse, he made the statement. He said, “No, I haven't, because I didn't know that I could.” And that story has always held a special place in my heart. Just because, you know, every year we present to thousands of students and 90 percent of the time, we don't see what happens after we leave that classroom and after we leave that school. We go in good faith knowing that we're doing what we need to do, and that's providing the service to help educate children. And as heartbreaking as it is to hear a disclosure from a child, you know, you get this the sense of hope and the sense of happiness. Because when we hear that a child has disclosed, we know that that child is taking that first necessary step that they need to do to ensure that they are safe. And who knows how many children are living with abuse and trauma, not knowing that their situation is not OK, that their situation is not normal? And so on that day, that student not only learned that the touching that was happening in his very own home was considered abuse, but he also learned that he had the right to speak up. And that's really what we want our students to understand is that they always have the right to speak up if they are ever in an uncomfortable situation. And it may be a situation that has to deal with inappropriate touching. But it could be any situation where they feel like they may be in danger or in harm if they ever feel that something is not quite right. They have the right to speak up, and they have the right to take the steps that they need to ensure that they are safe and to find safe adults who can help them through that process.
Sara: Wow! That was really powerful, Hilary, that you had that experience with a child and were able to get them some help. As parents, one thing that we need to understand is most often when children are being abused, it's by somebody the child knows. It could be somebody they like, somebody they love, even somebody they live with. And so as parents and as safe adults in a child's life, we need to be having these conversations with them. Because, as you can imagine, that would be really confusing to have this adult in our life that we trust. That's also hurting our bodies. That could be really confusing for a child, and they may not understand that that touching isn't OK and that they need to get help. So that's really powerful that that child had that realization and through that presentation and understood that he needed to get help in his situation. So Hilary, you've given us a lot of really valuable information today. Do you have any parting words that we maybe didn't touch on up to this point?
Hilary: I love the comment that you shared, Sara, because it reminded me of something I had heard years ago and again, another training. And the facilitator that was asked, the instructor for that training. He was talking about how we, as parents tend to have this mindset that our world is such a dark and unsafe place that it's our job to almost create a bubble around our children in an attempt to keep all of the bad away. And we do that by sheltering them from any and all realities that this world has. And I can see that for myself as well, too, with my own children. If I play the naïve card and I allow my children to do that, then they won't have to worry about some of these hard things that are happening. They won't have to worry about abuse and trauma and some of these other associated issues. But as you shared, as we look at statistics and perpetrators, most often perpetrators are individuals that their child knows. And so what happens if we shield our child from this education, not knowing that that perpetrator is one of those people that we have already allowed inside that child's bubble? And we assume that they're a safe person when in reality they are not. And that child doesn't have the knowledge base and the tools and the skills to be able to help themselves because they're unaware of what that even is. And so I think that although it's tough to introduce our children to a topic such as child abuse, it's the reality that we live in. And it doesn't have to be a scary and daunting conversation. It can be a very open and honest conversation. And I think we see that when we present to these students, we see that they don't leave being fearful of the world, but they leave feeling empowered, they leave feeling stronger. They leave feeling like a better person because they have learned what they just did.
A few other key takeaway things I would say. I think it's important for us to remember that when we talk to our kids about sexuality, that is so much more than just talking about sex. You know, sexuality includes gender orientation. It includes anatomy. It includes roles. It includes physical and emotional attachment. And these are conversations that need to be had. Going back to what I said earlier about the lack of discussion, you know, we, we get feedback from both parents and teachers regularly in regards to the content that was shared in the schools. And I wanted to share with you a few quotes that we recently received. One of them says, “Our world makes it so important to give our kids knowledge to protect themselves.” Another, “Please keep coming to help our students be safe.” And then another, “If we can save one child from abuse. This training is more than worth it.” And you know, I just I just want to encourage myself, all other parents, educators, community members that we need to, we need to start talking. We need to open up this conversation and we need to let our community know that we are here to make sure that kids are safe and we are here to support them and to assist them, however that be so that they can continue to lead a safe and happy life.
Jen: Those quotes are so powerful! As we were just sitting here, I got a text and they quickly looked at my phone and it was a phone number I didn't know. So I clicked on the message and it was a really inappropriate message and I was stopped and I'm like, Here we are talking about child abuse prevention, and this is one of the tools that those perpetrators use. So many children have phones now, and if that message would have gone to a child, you know, who knows what could happen if they would have pressed on it answered the question and the person was asking. It just reiterates the importance of this topic and talking to our kids to help keep them safe. So with all of this information where some really good places that parents can go to get information and resources.
Hilary: So the first place I would obviously suggest is to go to the Family Place website. We have a resource tab that has oodles of resource when it comes to child development, when it comes to discipline, communication as well as safety. And internet safety is included on that. So I would go there first and foremost to find more information about some of these general topics that we've talked about. “Prevent Child Abuse Utah” is one of our partners, and they have programs as well too, to help support this cause. And again, as well on their website, they do have some resources that would be a great place to begin to research more into this topic and to become more informed. Another one, I would suggest is “Darkness to Light”. They are another agency, and they primarily focus on adult education. Educating adults on the signs and symptoms associated with abuse and the steps that we can take as adults to help children. They have training that I feel like is training that every single individual should go through because being a citizen of Utah, we are all mandated reporters and so we need to know our role when it comes to reporting abuse, when that does come up. And then one of my most favorite websites that I often refer my clients to is “Defend Innocence”. And they have some of my favorite information when it comes to talking to children about body safety and sexuality. It breaks it up into different ages and stages and tells you what you should be talking to your kids at different ages. And kind of how to start that conversation questions is that children may ask about age and how to respond to some of those questions. So if you are unsure as to where to go and what conversations to begin with, I would suggest that you go there to “Defend Innocence” and look at some of their talking points, and that will be incredibly helpful for you.
Jen: I want to thank everyone for joining us today, and especially I want to thank Hillary for joining us and providing us with some valuable information. It's so unfortunate that we have to have this conversation about this topic, but with the right information and the right approach, we're able to empower our children to help keep their body safe from people who may try to hurt them. I am sure we will have Hillary on the show again, seeing how she is so full of great information, but that's all we have time for today. If you have any questions about today's topic, go to TheFamilyPlaceUtah.org and click on the Contact Us button. Be sure to tune in next week for another great topic that you won't want to miss!
Sara: Thanks again for listening. The family places a non-profit organization in Logan, Utah, with a mission to strengthen families and protect children. We call ourselves starfish throwers! If you're unsure what that means, refer back to our introduction episode where we explain it. The good news is you can be a starfish thrower too! By subscribing to the Parents Place podcast and liking our social media pages. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with others and help us get our message out to more people. Also, be sure to check the show notes for links to information referenced in this episode. That's all for now, but we'll catch you again next time on The Parent’s Place.
Contact us: - Email us questions or topic ideas: parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org - The Family Place - https://thefamilyplaceutah.org/parent-resources/
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Subject Resources: - Prevent Child Abuse Utah - https://pcautah.org/ - Darkness to Light - https://www.d2l.org/ - Defend Innocence - https://defendinnocence.org/
Music by Joystock
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