Chores. What type of reaction do you have to that word? Encouraging, motivating, or forcing kids to do chores can be intimidating and it can get old. Come and listen to some ideas and tips when it comes to children and chores.
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Hilary: Hello, hello! Welcome to The Family Place podcast, my name is Hilary
Jen: and my name is Jen Daly,
Hilary: And we are excited to be with you today. So as Jen and I were talking about what we should discuss on the podcast, a lot of times when I come up with the topic, it's usually something that I am struggling with. And we were joking earlier that we are both looking at our bedrooms right now and they are disgusting looking. But the reality is, is that one of the hardest, in my opinion, one of the hardest things with kids and helping kids learn about, is doing chores. Like it's an awful, ugly word, and we don't like to bring it up because it usually results in a full-blown tantrum. Helping kids do chores is a battle for most parents, don't you agree, Jen?
Jen: I agree, and I think we can also add ourselves and our partners in this as well because yeah, I come home from a long day of work, and I don't want to do chores either.
Hilary: It's true. So, it will always be a battle in my life, right?
Jen: I really feel like we when we talk about chores, we should never exclude ourselves, our children aren’t our little cleaner uppers, and we sit back and say, you missed a spot over here. We need to be part of that as well.
Hilary: Darn it, okay, fine.
Jen: I wish it was, you need to do this and this and this, and I sit back and do nothing, but kids catch onto that quite quickly, and then they like to fight back.
Hilary: Yeah. So, it was funny because I was talking with a group of parents about chores, and the thing is, so I asked the question like, when you think of your childhood, how many of you guys can honestly, think back and say, I have a positive experience with chores? Like I enjoy doing chores, I love doing chores and most of the people in my group said, heavens no, right? I hated them as a kid, I would always complain, I would always drag my feet, my mom or dad would force me to do it. And so, it's something that most of us look back and our memories aren't necessarily sunshine and rainbows. Yeah, and so, I mean let's talk about how we can develop that in our kids, because you're right, it's not ever anything that's going to go away. We want them to get in the habit of doing that while they're young, so that obviously they continue to have that skill as teens and young adults and even into late adulthood. So, let's start with our little ones, so, what are some of the keys that you feel like are needed in order to help kids do chores?
Jen: Well, I think the first thing for me is we need to throw out the expectation that it's going to look like exactly how we would do it as adults and throw that out the window because it's not. And come to the understanding that we're going to accept if they've put their best effort in and done what they can do, I'm going to accept that. And because I've talked with many parents about having little ones do chores, and there is nothing wrong with having little ones do stuff. I mean, you can start it when kids first start playing with, you know, blocks and all of that cars and Barbies and stuff like that when they're little of, you know what? We got to put our stuff away, it's not necessarily, you know, labeled a chore, but teaching them to pick up after themselves. And for a little one, I think if we can turn that into a game for them, you know, I like games and if my husband says, okay, in the next five minutes, let's see what we can do. I'm going to beat him because we're competitive with each other. So, it's the same with little kids if we can turn it into a game of, I'll do this, you do that, see if you can beat me. I mean, as young as two or three, get into that and they like that if we can turn it into a game. Hold your basket out and say, can you throw it into the basket? I mean, simple little things like that, but I think it really starts with just teaching them how to pick up after themselves. We don't start something until we have our last activity picked up.
Hilary: Yeah, and I like that it sets up, you don't even necessarily have to use the word chore when you're setting up the routine that way, it's just that's it, it’s the routine. When I take something out, I put it away, if I use a cup that goes in the dishwasher and it’s just part of the routine. And then that way you don't necessarily need to say, all right, time to do chores, pick up all the stuff, it's just part of the expectation. It's funny because I always think about, I have a hard time with that one, honestly, putting my expectations at a developmental level because in my head. I have an idea of what a clean room looks like and a clean room means that everything is off of the floor and that the bed is made and that the dressers are dusted. And a clean room to me looks very different than it will for my 12-year-old and that looks different than what it would be for my three-year-old, you know? Saying, put away your toys, I know exactly where every single one of those toys goes, and there's a bin for each of those toys. But for my three-year-old, putting away toys might mean out of sight, out of mind and if I can cram them all underneath my bed, guess what, my room is clean because I can't see the toys anymore, which means that I must be done. And so, not that we necessarily want to train them to hide the stuff and then a little corner but I like the idea of when we have this expectation, making sure that we're on the same page with it. I'm explaining to them what is needed, they understand what that is, and sometimes that means doing it with them initially, so that we do get to that same page nut I know my kids are not mind readers, and so I need to throw out the idea that they know what it's supposed to look like because they might not.
Jen: Yeah, I, you know, I had a parent that I worked with years ago, and she was really one that wanted to sit back and just, you know, you miss that spot over there! But she had never taught her children what she expected, she never showed them and so for young ones, for you to say all your toys need to be put away, in their head they are thinking, as long as we can't see them, it's good because that's developmentally what they can do. And so, if we take the time, we have to be an active participant in this, take the time if it is, okay we got to put all the toys away. Let's put them in this big bucket and then you and I are going to sit down together and put them in the correct buckets so that they know. So, they have learned, if it's older kids and you’re wanting them to clean up the bathroom say, come on in, we're going to clean out the bathroom together. I'm going to show you what I expect because if we don't show them, they're going to interpret it the way they want to.
Hilary: You're right, one of our colleagues that we work with at The Family Place I remember she was telling me that she had recently taken her son to his well-child checkup. And he was very young at the time, probably three or four-ish and her pediatrician made the suggestion that when you give your child directions, only give them directions so, for however, all they are, that should be the amount of words that you use. So essentially, if my child is four, I'm giving him steps in directions, make that sentence no longer than four words, if possible. And so, you think about that and think about giving a three-year-old and two-year-old directions on how to do something, you're keeping it incredibly minimal. But I really like and that may mean that you have to break those directions out into multiple steps because if we look at our young kids and we say, okay, here's what I need you to do, I need you to pick up your toys and I need you to throw in the garbage and I need you to make your bed. I need to put your laundry in the laundry basket, guess what? After about step two, they have probably completely zoned out, and they have no idea. And so maybe it means okay let's start with step number one, pick up your clothes and then let them go, do that, and then when they come back alright now step two, toys in toy box, right? It's going to maybe require a little bit more time and effort on our behalf but realistically, that's probably the only way they can follow through with multiple expectations and giving them multiple opportunities.
Jen: Yeah. And the magical thing with that is, yes, it may take you a little bit more time in that moment, but it's going to take you less time in the long run because if we left it up to them, we're going to go in there and say, well, you didn't do this right and you didn't do this right, and we're going to spend another half an hour because your child's going to start throwing a tantrum. But they've done their best and you're going to sit there and say no, and it's going to be this battle back and forth. So, if we can just change that mindset of this is going to take a lot of work, it's actually going to take less work. It's a hard mindset to change.
Hilary: They always are, that's the tricky thing about parenting. You know, it's funny because so I love, I like attempting to be organized. I'm not saying that I am, but I love buying little bins and little tubs and being able to organize every little thing into every nook and cranny. And so, I remember that I had organized, I bought a bunch of little bins for my girls’ rooms, and they're both fairly young, and so they're very much into all things small. So, like little Barbie shoes, and then they have little doll clothes, and then we have little squishy toys and all the stuff that my baby likes to try to put in his mouth but I have bought a separate bin for each little thing thinking that I would organize every everything by shape and color and size, and this and that, and to me in my head, it looks beautiful, but it was totally something that was above what was really what they could do. And so, after weeks and weeks of frustration that things weren't in the right bins or that this color was being mixed with this color, I finally got to the point where I said, all right, here is one giant tub, all of your Barbie stuff throw it all in there! Right? Because I think sometimes we almost make it harder than what it needs to be because they really don't care. Right! They don't care or care and so, I think that was the problem is that they didn't care and I just needed to let go of the fact that I shouldn't care about that either.
Jen: Yeah, it's tough though.
Hilary: That's why it's hard is because I do care sometimes blah!
Jen: I think its kind of like and I'm thinking like choices. You know, you kind of save your I care choices, hold on to those, it’s kind of like fighting the battles you want to fight. So, if it's something that you truly care about, give them control and lots of other spaces so, when you say, nope, this is how we're going to clean this. I don't want anything under your bed, hold on to that, let them figure out that all the other stuff, but that's when you really care about. So, you can say, I've given you free rein of how you want your bedroom to look but this is the one thing that I'm going to say we have to do.
Hilary: That's a good point, and you bring up choices and so, it reminded me of a mom. We've talked about choices before, we talk about choices in our parenting courses, but we've talked about on the podcast and I had a mom that said to me one time when we're doing chores, she tries to use choice as much as possible with our kids. And so, for her, that looks like maybe we need to clean the family room and there's toys all over the family room. She'll look at her kids and she'll say, okay, guys, you pick, would you like to pick up the blocks or the Legos or the video game, right? And she'll let them pick which thing they want to pick up? You know, they each choose or maybe it's a busy day, so you know, you can't get everything that night in the bedroom, but you say, all right, you make a choice, which of these things would you like to clean up? The rest, we’ll, wait until the next day. If you do want the entire room cleaned up, that's fine but maybe they can choose what needs to happen first. So, our room needs to be clean by the time that you go to bed, so you choose what you want to do first, you want to do the laundry first, do you want to pick up toys first, do you want to take care of the beds first? Like what? What's the process? But I like that idea because I think so often the reason why we hate chores is because we feel like we're being forced to do something we don't want to do. And a lot of times we're pulling kids away from something that they were doing that was exciting to them, so, you know, they're playing video games or they're with their friends or they're in front of the TV and we turn to them and we say, you need to clean your room right now. I don't know why we were surprised when they're resistant, of course, they don't want to clean. And so, giving them some freedom of how they want that scenario to play out, what they want it to look like.
Jen: I mean, there are a select few people out there that love to clean or they clean, when they're stressed, for me,
Hilary: Can I be that person?
Jen: I wish, I could be that person as well. I too easily turn a blind eye and say, I don't see that over there but you know, people do love it, but I think for the mass I don't know. This is my perspective, the mass majority of us don't necessarily really enjoy cleaning. So, if we as adults don't enjoy it, how can we expect our kids to not kind of fight us a little bit on picking up after themselves?
Hilary: And that's why I think your suggestion in the beginning about making it fun is so important, and we don't have to drag them from room to room, let's try to turn it into something that's least somewhat enjoyable. You know what, my house, we have a lot that we need to do, one of the first things that we do is we crank up some music. We turn the music on, it's a really loud and it feels like any time you have music, it helps, right? I think for me, it helps me to move faster but then we're cleaning and or dancing or having a good time, we're laughing. Another thing I do with my kids a lot of times is we’ll time ourselves and so, we'll say, okay we've got 10 minutes and we're going to start in the bathroom, let's see how quickly we can all work together to finish the bathroom and then you're almost making it a race and for little kids they love having races, right? Or, like you said, we turn it into a contest, you're going to take this bathroom, I'm going to take this bathroom race! We’re going to see who can get things done first, or let's split up into teams and see which team can put the toys away the fastest. You turn anything into a competition and some of these kids are like, I am sold!
Jen: Oh, goodness, that's funny how we think in our brains, how we can get ourselves to do things. But really, it takes some imagination and really why don't we have more fun when we're doing things that we don't like? I mean, if we have fun, maybe it will turn one day into something that's not that bad. And I also, I don't know, I just think we need to make sure that we're not expecting our kids to do something that they really can't do. Like I think of like, you're a little three-year-old, can he really put plates on the table to set dinner? No, he can't, so, let's not ask him to do that. But sometimes we have too high of expectations for their abilities.
Hilary: Yeah, at my mom's house and I love you, mom! So, my mom's house, there been a few times where there's been a bin of toys, and she's really good at making sure that the toys fit just perfectly in the bin and they fit perfectly because she has put them that way. And so, she's found a way to align and move and switch, which it's like a tertius game, right? Everything needs to go in just right in order for the lid to close, that's really easy for her to do, and it's probably still somewhat easy for me to do but I'm setting up my little five-year-old for failure if I expect that she can get all those things in the bin just the right way that they were before. And so, there's been times when we've left the house and she's been frustrated and I feel frustrated and so are my kids because we didn't do it just right. And so, I can see that being a big problem for a lot of people.
Jen: It reminds me of when my nieces and nephews come and visit my grandma, my parents and my grandfather had built this grandfather clock. And my dad now has it since he passed, well, the youngest loves to play with the chains in the grandfather clock and you know, she was never told not to play with those chains because it messes up the time, so every time they go home, my parents would have to have the clock guy come out and fix it, you know, then there's a bill to go along with it. And my mom was complaining one day and I said, have you ever told her she's not allowed to play with that? And she said, no and I said, maybe that's where you want to start, because it's the same way with cleaning up. Sometimes they just don't know, and we can't get upset with them if we're not telling them. So, my mom took the idea of telling her, of taking her over to the clock, I mean, she's now six years old, and I think this was happening when she was four and a half five years old. So, she took her over to the clock and said, alright, this is something that's very special to our family, we don't play with this, if we mess with the chains, it messes with the time and then it doesn't chime when it's supposed to. She said, okay, didn't touch it, now, when she comes to visit, she walks through the door she says, I know I'm not supposed to touch that! So, I think it's just reminding kids or reminding ourselves, kids don't know everything, they don't know everything about cleaning up. They don't know that oh, I'm trying to think of something that would just make the hair on my neck stand up. The rag that you're using to clean out the sink actually drops in the toilet, and then we put it back in the sink, kids don't care! They're going to use the same rag, but you're going to think, oh, no, no, no, that's disgusting! But they don't think that way!
Hilary: No, you're right. And so, you know, yes, they can be a battle. Yes, they're not the most fun thing to do out of everything we have to do during the day or the week. But gosh, it's something that needs to be done so we can find a way to recruit their help in a positive way. I mean, we have an ongoing theme with parenting guys, and that is that the more positive you can be, the better off, more willing your child is going to be to follow and so, if we can keep it positive and we can praise them throughout the process and we can point out things that they're doing well, rather than things that they haven't done yet or that they didn't do quite right. They’re gonna want to come back and help us out again and that's what we need to do as we need as much as we can get to keep our house clean and organized or at least I do on my own.
Jen: So, Hillary, I had a thought come to mind and what are your feelings on allowance for chores?
Hilary: Oh, this is a tricky one, and I know, so here's kind of my feelings and a lot of what my feelings stem from is the love and logic curriculum, they talk a lot about giving chores and having kids contribute to helping out. And here's the thing I want my kids to be able to make money because I think that that is a different lesson, that's very important for kids to understand is how money works, how we need to save, what it feels like to spend, that is definitely a part of learning how to become a capable adult. But I also want to set up the expectation at my house that, you know sometimes we're asked to do things, and sometimes we have to help out and guess what, we're not always going to get paid for those things. I unfortunately think that we have created and we continue to create this mindset in our society that if I do something, it should equal some type of reward, whether that be a toy, a prize, a treat, a trophy, whatever it is. I think kids are starting to equate I accomplish a task, I get something from that task. And I mean, yes, there are consequences for everything we do, both positive and negative but oftentimes those consequences could be something as simple as I feel good, I did this and I feel good, I did this and mom patted me on the back.
Jen: Sometimes all they need is you did a great job, thank you.
Hilary: And so, I think it's important to have kids help out and be in charge and be responsible of certain things in the home, but not pay them for all of those things. And so maybe what you do and we try to do this in our house is we have certain expectations that my kids do. Usually they are weekly things and we do them because that's just what we do, you're part of a family. It helps our house to function. Now, if my 12-year-old, let's say, wants to go to the bowling alley with his friends and he needs some extra money, if he has some money of his own, that's great. But if he needs to make some, then usually I have some extra chores, chores that usually are chores honestly, there is a chore that I don't want to get to myself. It's like cleaning the baseboards or the windows, or maybe sweeping outside those sorts of things. So, if he wants to make some money, I can show him that list and I can say, take your pick if you'll do three of those for me, I'll give you five bucks and so, they still have the opportunity to make money, but it's not the expectation that it will be given to them all the time just because.
Jen: Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with that of having that separate list or having a jar of like popsicle sticks that have this is the chore, this is how much you can make from it. I mean, there's a lot of creative ways and Pinterest is great for that. But yeah, there are certain things by being a family, these are the things that we need to do to keep our house functioning and running. Making your bed, cleaning your room, you're not going to get paid for those things. Those are things we do because we are part of a family and another great way that I had a parent, what she had done, she had created like a bulletin board and put different chores on it. But then she had put the old clothes pins, the wooden clothespins. So, then she would put items, she would clip items to it. So, if her girls were like really into makeup, she'd click like a little thing of blush up there. Like, if you do this chore, you get some blush and if you do this chore, this isn't a snack we normally buy, but here it is on the board. If you want that snack, you can do that chore. And I thought that was another great creative way of, not having them do the normal chores that are just part of being a family living in those ones that we as parents don't necessarily want to do.
Hilary: And I like the fact that you're right for some parents, they may not have a lot of extra income to give to their kids. And so, it's unrealistic to pay kids to do things, but you can always find other ways to reward them if they're going above and beyond. Like you said, buying this snack that we otherwise wouldn't buy or going to the dollar store to get a new lipstick that you may want to have or doing some extra activity with mom or dad. It can be anything like that if money is maybe something that's just unrealistic for you, for you to expect your kids have at that time. And, you know, money may not be, the hard thing with kids is that part of our job as parents is to find what tends to motivate our kids. And for some kids it is money and for other kids, they could care less about anything. Yeah. If there is something more motivating the go ahead and use that thing that is more motivating may not be money and that’s okay.
Jen: I worked with a boy, it was peanuts, took me a long time to figure out it was peanuts because he wasn't motivated by anything. But then he saw the peanuts and he was like, yep, I want some of those. I’m like okay, then we're going to do the math problems to get those peanuts. But sometimes it's really hard.
Hilary: I'm motivated by cookies, so I'll see? I mean, it's different for everybody, for donuts.
Jen: Or donuts? I think you would do anything for donuts, Right?
Hilary: My child is very motivated by donuts, if I say that we have to go to the donut store. Sold! I'll do whatever you need me to do, mom.
Jen: Oh goodness. Or are there any other final thoughts you want to say about chores?
Hilary: You know, I had a lot of parents that come to me and say, hey, my, my 11-year-old, my 13-year-old they don't want to do chores like I got on Pinterest, I found this really cool chore chart, I printed it off, I laminated it, my kids still won't do it! And what I ask this this parent, how long have you tried this or even how long have you had your kids doing chores? And they're like, this is the first time I've ever really tried to have them do something. Here's the thing, and it's unfortunate that this has to be the case but guess what, if your kids aren't in the habit of doing chores, and all of a sudden you ask your 12-year-old, hey, by the way, you're in charge of your own bedroom. They're not going to be happy about it, they're probably going to stomp their feet and be resistant to say some words that maybe aren't very nice words. And so, I think that the key with chores is to start when they're small and make it a part of their life and yes, you can start having your kids do chores at any time in their life, I'm not saying that you can't initiate that midway through your childhood, but if you have the opportunity to incorporate that while they're young, they're going to grow up knowing that that is what I do. And so, find creative ways to let those two-year old’s to let those three-year old’s do things and to have those other kids help those little kids to do things as well, too, because putting them in the role of the teacher is probably just as fun. If you say to your teenager, hey, can you help teach the three-year olds how to how you know how-to put his toys away? They're like, well, yeah, of course I can, right? You're the teacher, you're the one that knows how to do all this. So, put them in that position so, start them while you're young, if you can find ways to make it fun.
Jen: Agreed. And just so all of you know, it's like Hilary said, it's never too late. Is it easier when you start young? Absolutely, but it's never too late, you know, always teach them to do something within the house that you haven't had them do before. And if you haven't had them do chores at all, it's okay, you can start, you might want to start smaller and get them used to it. I know when I first married my husband, his daughter, I had bought her starbursts and I went around our home and there were starburst wrapper papers everywhere. And I'm like, oh my goodness, just throw them away and it just started, every time she threw something away, I said, thank you I really appreciate that makes my day a lot easier. And now I don't have to worry about it but starting, if you started out later, it may be something that small of just thanking them for putting something away or throwing away something, so never give up. Never just throw your hands up in the air and say, oh, I'm too late. It's never too late, we can all learn things at different times and make it fun, if we make everything a nightmare, life is going to be miserable and we don't want that for when our kids are in our home, they're in our homes for a blink of an eye and then they're gone. So, remember to have fun with the hard things that we have to do within our families. All right, I want to thank everyone for joining us today. Hopefully, you got some good little tips that can help you with chores within your own home. We have many different classes at the family place: parenting classes, couple's classes, lots of them. So, we will put them with links to register if you're interested in the show notes. We also hope that you have a great weekend, we hope that you will try something fun to get your kids to do when it comes to chores. That's our challenge for you today is trying to do something fun, we hope that you have a great week, and we will see you back here next week.
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