Getting Kids Outside

There has been a lot of evidence and scientific study based around the benefits of the outdoors. Mental health symptoms, developmental help, and spacial awareness are just the tip of the iceberg. Curtis Snelgrove is here to tell us more about the benefits of being outside for children and families!

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Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. I'm Hilary,

Jen: And I’m Jen

Hilary: And we are so excited to have you guys here this afternoon, evening, morning, whatever time you guys are listening, I guess. We're excited to have you here regardless. So we have a special visitor with us today. One of our colleagues, Curtis, he is here to talk to us. And Curtis oversees one of our programs here at The Family Place, our mental health first aid programs, which I'll let him talk about a little bit. But he's also what I like to call our resident outdoor enthusiasts in our office. That is primarily the reason why we have him here. So before I give him any more of an introduction, I'll let you introduce yourself. So tell us a little bit about what you do here at the office, first of all.

Curtis: All right. Well, my name is Curtis Snelgrove and I am the Mental Health First Aid Program Director. This program that I oversee, we focus on trying to help others understand their role to help themselves or help others that are in their lives that may be struggling with mental illness or something related to a mental illness. We have so much power for good, and we want to help other people understand that they have an impact in people's lives that they can and they do make a difference. And so we teach a certification class. We offer a virtual mental health first aid class that is open really to anybody to attend. They just check out our website and they can register for a class. We offer that twice a month. We do offer the class in person as well, not as frequently, but we just want to help people understand that role that they have. So that is in a very small nutshell. What I do here is the Family Place with the mental health first aid program.

Jen: Well, the great thing about those classes are they are free. And so lots of places throughout the country charge a hefty price. And so, yeah, those that are in Utah and whoever else wants to, it's free through the Family Place.

Hilary: And obviously, as usual, we'll put that information in our show notes, in our show notes and our summary so that you can see where to register for that class. But what we want to talk a little bit about today is getting kids outside and the benefits of it. What we see, the reality is, is I think we are raising a generation that doesn't go outside anymore and that they spend most of their time primarily inside. And it's and I'm a little bit I'm a little bit nervous for that, to be honest with you, because there's so many benefits to getting kids outside the getting families outside in general. So let's kind of start out by just opening the topic in that way. Curtis, what being somebody that loves being outside and loves having his, you know, bringing your kids outside and spending time with your family outside. What are your thoughts on making that a priority for yourself?

Curtis: That's a good question for myself. Absolutely right. Like, I look at my circumstances and my upbringing and what I want, and I hope that I can share with my kids, right? Knowing that this different generation, different things. I mean, I tell you right now, I remember the first video game that I ever played. Right? Good old centipede on the Atari at my friends house.

Hilary: Woooooh ya,

Curtis: I remember when my parents finally just said, Yeah, okay, we're doing this, and they bought an Nintendo. And I was like, This is amazing, right? And I will say, I will confess I do enjoy my screens. I really do. I like doing some gaming. I'm not a hardcore gamer. I like watching movies, but I love being outside. It is something that I will be forever grateful to my parents, my grandparents, as having that as a priority that it was like, We need to take time to spend outside and go camping, go fishing, go hunting, go play and use this little thing called your imagination. Like, make this stick, Excalibur, this like this sword that cannot be stopped, right? Like, go out and just get dirty, get hurt, not, not gravely hurt, but get hurt and just have fun. And I feel like. I personally feel like there has been this transition from that upbringing to now where it's just, you know, we had an exposure to these things that are screens. But I can tell you right now, when I was little, I still preferred to go pretend like I was Luke Skywalker flying in the X-wing on the teeter totter outside. But really, what it was I just loved getting that outdoors. And now I look at the predicament that I will say that yes, I have been causing a little bit with my own kids of “Let's do the easy thing in here, like watch a show or watch this YouTube video on YouTube Kids or play Nintendo or something else”. Instead of doing something a little bit more challenging and difficult to say, let's go outside. Not just you, but let's both of us go outside. Put some effort into this. Go camping, go fishing and really reap the benefits of getting outdoors.

Jen: I grew up at a time to where my mom just said, Get out,

Hilary: Don't come back and until it’s dark

Jen: Yeah, dinnertime lunchtime. I'll let you know when that is, but get out of the house. And it was like the best thing. I mean, I seen the neighborhood kids would just play and climb trees and skin our knees and catch locusts. And we didn't have a pool in Arizona and we didn't have air conditioning, so we were always hot. But we had a canoe. And no, we didn't put that canoe on any body of water most of the year, but we put water in the canoe and that was our own little pool was inside of the canoe. But it was so much fun that my mom would buy a cheap piece of plastic from Home Depot. And there's your slip and slide. I mean, just fun, free stuff that we loved as kids

Hilary: I think. I think all three of us were raised in a similar generation where, yeah, as kids, especially during the summer, you would wake up, you'd eat breakfast and then you'd head out for the day and you would kind of hop from one house to the next or one neighborhood to the next neighborhood. But it was the idea that you created your own fun and that fun looks different every day. And I think about my own kids and it's like, OK, guys get outside like, I will drag you out there if needs be, then it is. It's so interesting to see this shift in generations because it's becoming more of a forced effort.

Jen: Like, you're going to have kids kicking and screaming just to go outside. But what a benefit to have these kids go outside. So what are some of those benefits, Curtis?

Curtis: Well, one of the things that made me like right off the bat just made me think about was what Hilary was saying is like he had a chance to use their imagination. So it provides an opportunity for these, these children, these kids and even us as adults to be creative like really as silly as it may sound. There's a lot of truth into it. They're saying there are benefits from pretending a stick is a sword or is a horse or a magic wand or whatever. Like, it's so important for our kids to use our imaginations and to just develop it and to be creative and to figure out, OK, so what? What can I do? And one of the greatest benefits of being creative and using their imagination in this type of a realm is they're in control. You know, like I would say, for example, I know my kids, they love to be in control and it drives me nuts, right? It's like, No, you have not earned the right to be a girl, right? But no, but taking the opportunity to help them know that you know what? You can make decisions and you can make decisions that are going to be beneficial or not. And experience what that's like. It's OK to fail.

Jen: Problem-Solving comes into play, which a lot of kids don't know how to do nowadays, right?

Curtis: Because they're interacting with an environment, right? Whether that is the playground in your backyard, you know, if it's out playing a sport, if it's hiking or fishing or whatever, like they're interacting with the environment to make decisions for themselves. Am I going to step here or am I going to try to jump off this rock and then maybe twist my ankle? You might think that we can learn, Hey, you know, you got hurt. So maybe next time, let's be sure of our footing. Or let's make sure we're evaluating these decisions before we do them and how that could apply into a non-outdoor or just in general life cycle. So that's another great benefit to you.

Hilary: So, I mean, I think we could talk for a while about the benefits of it, but I'm thinking of some families who maybe this isn't a habit. Maybe this isn't part of their routine. Maybe their kids come home from school. And the reality is reality is, is that they spend most of their time on a screen. How would a parent start to incorporate outdoor time with their child when that's maybe not something that's natural for that child yet?

Curtis: It's a good question. And my my answer, the popular mind is like, Oh, it was easy answers like, Do something. Start, just start, right? But at the same time, like, it's so true, I think you need to have a little bit of caution that you're not completely jumping in because then in my opinion, like, you're going to be risking burnout. And that's what you don't want to do is you don't want to just like, OK, we're doing this full-fledged, no pedal to the metal every day, every day, all day long. This is what we're doing because then you're going to get burned out and then it's not going to be fun. But I think if we just take a moment to say, All right, let's start, let's just take a few minutes and not just have your kids go with them and push them on a swing. Go lay in the grass for two minutes and feel the sunshine on your face. You know, like doing those things that just start. I know it sounds like you just start, but at the same time, like, that's what it's going to take to do something and then slowly increase it little by little.

Jen: One of my favorite memories was, yes, we did all of the playing, but we as a family would take out a watermelon, just slice it up and eat it outside on the grass day number one, you don't have a mess to clean up. After that, you can throw, I mean, easy to throw away things. It doesn't matter if kids get their sticky hands because they're not touching anything. But then you know what happened a lot of times after that? That watermelon was a water fight, because now it was like, OK, let's wash off your hands with the hose. Well, the hose always,

Hilary: One thing always leads to another

Jen: Yeah the hose always got out of control

Hilary: And that’s okay though

Jen: Yeah! But something so simple as just taking your watermelon outside for, you know, when you go to eat it. Yeah, it's a win win for everyone.

Hilary: You know, you bring up a point, though, that I think a lot of parents struggle with when it comes to being outside is that outside tends to create a little bit of chaos and sometimes a little bit of a mess. You know, kids are outside, they're playing in the dirt, they're playing in the sand, they're tracking things in the house, right? They're coming in with sticky fingers and. Some parents aren't OK with that. It makes them really uncomfortable, and so the idea of being inside means that we're maintaining the chaos inside.

Jen: I think you can overcome that, though. I mean, if you add, I mean, if you are a planner or an organizer and you don't like that messy part of it, then have a bag that has, you know, your hand wipes or a bag that has towels in it. So you just take all that outside and then bring it inside. Make a rule that you have to take your shoes off before you inside. I mean, there are ways, I think, to get away with it. And I'm sorry, Curtis, I'm still in your thunder over here. I could talk about my childhood and how we loved playing outside all day long.

Curtis: I know it does my heart. Good to know that you are still right. Others will feel the same way because I will say, can I just add chiming in with that topic to like, I am one of those parents that I'm just like, Oh my goodness, this is just driving me nuts right under our deck. Like, I have this plan in the long term to have this more of a nice hanging out area. Right now it's dirt. Yeah, and kind of gives me a little bit of I'm not sure I'm going to use the word anxiety just because I can't think of another word right now, but I'm going to use anxiety to be like, OK, so when my son or my daughter get out there and they love to get muddy and dirty, it's like, OK, you stay there. No, don't. No, don't move. Don't come inside, right? But at the same time, like the times that I'm better with is when I can remember. Like, what's the point? The point is they're doing something and they are experiencing it. And then I can cope with that with those feelings or emotions that I'm feeling at that time and say, like, it's OK. Like, Yes, and I'm not. I don't mean to have the sound judgmental at all, but it's like mud can get cleaned up. Yeah, like, you're your whole. As important as vital as it is, like your home is an item and it's stuff. You can clean. You can replace stuff you cannot replace. You cannot clean. You cannot fix the time that you have with your kids to be able to help them be a child. Yeah. And to experience those things.

Jen: Yeah. My brother kept a towel by his back door. He had a dog that was inside outside. Yes. And he didn't like the dog rolling in the grass, in the dirt and everything. So any time you let the dog in before you let the dog in, he just wipe them down with a towel. You can do that with kids too!

Jen: Yeah, have a towel. Well, my husband, we built a sandbox in our backyard, and it's so funny that you bring up the water because that's exactly how it is with the sandbox starts with sand. And then also sudden, they remember that there is a hose and then they bring the hose into the sandbox. And then you have this giant muddy mess every time.

Jen: Well you got to create sand castles and you can't do that without water.

Hilary: Yes. But the thing is, is that it would drive him crazy. Every time we hear the hose being turned on and you hear the water going that he's and he turns to me and says they've got the water on. But it's funny because, like you say, Curtis, it rather than getting frustrated with something like that, it should be in our heads. More of it. So what, right? I mean, that's just taking that next step in in in in play, right? And so, so what? They've got the water on, but they're still outside, having a great time in the sandbox

Jen: And they're not in your hair.

Curtis: It is easier said than done. I will be the first to admit that. But yeah, if we can, if we can start making those little progressions ourselves is the easiest to understand, like it is OK. Like it's OK, even if it's just like, OK, I'm passing it off as, OK, this one day, this one week and then just improve from there.

Jen: It's a mindset and mindsets are hard to change, but they can be changed. And that's the glorious.

Hilary: And you know, it's funny because I've watched my kids and then I've also watched other kids, and you brought up a little bit ago the point of starting somewhere and maybe having us as parents, kind of helping guide them through that process. Because I have there's been times when I've encouraged my kids to go outside and then you kind of watch them just wander around aimlessly trying to figure out what to do right? Or, you know, you offer some type of a suggestion and they look at you like, Well, how do I start doing that? And so I like that suggestion that sometimes you may have to say, Well, what could you use this stick for? Or that's that kind of looks like a wand? Do you think you could do? Dot dot dot dot dot because I think sometimes kids don't know where to start. But if you can essentially give them a starting point, they may be able to take that and run with it after that.

Curtis: When it's like in every is different to like, I'm going to use my kids as an example, right? So my daughter, she's very much like and always has been right. This is like the idea of having toys and having play but play for her has been, OK, so what can I do in the real world, right? Like, like, I love my daughter, but she's a lot more of that practical mindset. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. She's just not has been that as imaginative. Now, my son, on the other hand. Oh my godness. You can tell how frequently that just like, OK, let's he's just imagining again. All right. So I think it's important that you're aware of how your child reacts to these types of things and giving them that opportunity to get outdoors and have that play for my son. Yeah, it may be the suggestion of it's like, Oh yeah, oh, that's stick. You've got it looks like a sword. We should have like a sword fight or we should do this or we should do that. My daughter, on the other hand, it's been able to kind of open up what I find enjoyable more as an adult than I did when I was a child to be able to connect with her in the outside. So we've been able to really foster this kinship and this love desire that we both have of fishing. Going on a backpacking trip or was just this really short thing one night, you know that we've done for the past couple of years, but it's been something that's given her that opportunity to again, to experience the outdoors and to have play in the way that's meaningful for her. Well, my is different and can have that play meaningful for him.

Hilary: That's a good point, because I'm thinking to myself, where do parents start and I guess it probably starts in knowing your child's personality because you're right. Some kids may jump into that pile of dirt and be as content as the clam, and others may want to go for a walk or do something as simple as that. And so, you know, finding out who they are and what they like, maybe even asking, but how do you want to spend your time outside today and offering suggestions if needs be like that

Curtis: And understanding that they may say, Well, let's try this, or they may not want to say, Well, let's give it one try and just see it behind him and be willing, be willing to do it. I like the thought that comes my mind right now is several years ago, we wanted to do a garden. I enjoy doing gardening. I'm not a gardener, especially a few years ago, and I had no clue about these types of things. But my daughter, like she wanted to plant watermelon and in my mind's eye because I'm not a gardener and I'm not an expert in that type where I was like, Okay, we're in northern Utah and you want to plant a watermelon. But you know what we did? We did, and we got a very small watermelon that at the end of the season, before freezing in frost came that we were able to cut open is about the size of a softball and all three of us had a bite of watermelon. But it was something again that was able to help her have a responsibility now and have that practical way that she's able to experience the outdoors in a way that she was able to enjoy and see some success from it. That is a little harder because, yeah.

Hilary: So I'm going to take you back to the beginning, maybe, but when you mention the help then of not just necessarily health benefits, but the benefits in general, for parents kind of what, what's your goal in mind? What maybe is kind of a standard that we should set for ourselves on? How much are there recommendations, ideas of maybe where parents should go when it comes to how much time?

Curtis: Yeah, yeah. So there's so I'll give a couple of numbers. But then I also had a thought to share with that too. So I'm just some recent information I was able to pull up. So the CDC recommends that children set are six years old to 17 years old, get one hour a day of exercise or physical activity that's moderate to vigorous. And it's estimated that about four to seven minutes a day, a child in the United States spends outside and not saying like, these are two different topics, but they're very relatable, right outdoors and exercise like you can exercise indoors, right?

Jen: Well, I feel like if you send a kid outside, they're going to run to run and jump.

Curtis: Yeah, and they're going to get that moderate activity. Exactly. So I think it's very important that we understand it's like it's OK, right? And especially like going back to what you're saying, this is going to get into what I wanted to show to what you mentioned earlier, Hillary, about where do we start if this is not like our family dynamic? Like how do we start? It's okay that our kids do hard things. Mm-Hmm. And it's okay that they're going to get scuffed up and it's okay to they're going to get dirty. A quote from one of my neighbors and my friends that I've worked with and with the youth in our area and whatnot, I really enjoy this call. This is what is right and what is convenient are not the same thing. And so it's OK for us to know that this is not going to be an easy thing to make this change or to, you know, accept that, accept the dirty footprints on the carpet, right, like whatever it may be. But keeping in mind that what is right and what is convenient, we need to do what's right. Sometimes they may be the same thing, but we need to do what's right. We need to give that opportunity for our kids to enjoy the health benefits, both mentally and physically. By being outside and getting that exposure to thing is things as scientific as vitamin D and measuring vitamin D and how it improves mood, but also things that are maybe not so quantifiable, you know, to be able to understand how it may builds their sense of responsibility and their imagination, and how it engages their senses in a different way in their motor capability with their muscles and everything else. So that's kind of where I go to when I think about that.

Hilary: So I know that our time is coming to a close, but this is a quirky question I'm going to end with for all of you. But I want you to share maybe a memory you have, either with your own children, growing up experience, of, of this outside play that stands out to you.

Jen: A memory of, yeah, that stands out

Hilary: when it comes to being outside.

Jen: I don't know if this is one that all parents want to hear,

Hilary: but those are the best ones, so go for it.

Jen: I used to love to climb trees and our neighbor had this row of trees, but we also had this cute boy neighbor that was down the street. And his name was William. I will not say his last name,

Hilary: William, if you're listening out there

Jen: But in that tree, I was probably between eight and 11 years of age. I can't remember quite when, but that was the first kiss was in the tree.

Hilary: Something magical about that tree

Jen: But it was. We were always outside with William and his brother and a couple of other kids always playing, playing in the trees. And that's where the first kiss came. So that was that'll be one that always. Stick out your little first childhood kiss.

Hilary: And you got it from being outside. So for all you, a single individual is out there, you know? Yeah, my kids and I made a goal a few summers ago because I love seeing kids and with lemonade stands. It's one of my most favorite things to drive past and see kids with lemonade stands because it just makes you smile. They’re outside, they're having fun, they're making money. And so there was one summer when I don't remember how much money. Maybe we got a $20 bill or something and put it in quarters, and I always just had it in my in my van so that any time we saw a lemonade stand, we would stop every time to get a cup of lemonade because I just think it's such a fun thing for kids to do. So I want to pay him for that. The reward for being outside.

Curtis: I don't have like I mean, I've got a lot of like memories that are just coming right now, but like the one that I want to share is again, just the opportunity they had. I mean, being involved, the scouts and just my family dynamic growing up is getting outside and disconnecting. Right? And the past two years in a row, I've been able to take and have my daughter go and experience what a quick one night overnight or backpacking trip. And being able to provide a time where we like we couldn't make a phone call. Right? And so even if we had my phone late, didn't matter. Like we couldn't turn on YouTube or whatever. But being able to just sit there and truly connect and appreciate the things that are outside, you know, without having to, you know, to connect virtually, it's coming from the guy who says, Oh, we teach a virtual class, right? But like being able to really take that time and just connect with nature and connect with each other in a way that's going to be completely raw and healthy.

Hilary: Yeah, there's a really good commercial right now, out for some type of car company, but they're driving through like they're driving through the canyon. And the dad says to the kids, Do you guys have any bars? Do you have any service? And the kids are like, Oh yeah, still two more bars, still one more bar. And eventually he asked the kids, and they say no more bars. And he says perfect. And that's when he stops the car and they get out because I knew there's power in disconnecting. And I think that's important for kids to realize that you don't need to have those devices at all times. Unplug.

Jen: It's a recharge. And really lets you helps you get through the rest of your week or start the week or whatever it may be. I really have loved this conversation, and it's brought back a lot of great, great memories from childhood. I'm hopefully for everyone that has been here and listening and that you can provide these opportunities for your kids and for yourself. Play is good for parents as well. It helps you recharge. It is a way to regulate your energy and really do good for yourself. It's a form of self-care that a lot of people don't think of. And so I want to thank you for coming today. I challenge you just one time this week. Get outside. The weather is getting better in most places around the United States. And so get outside and do something. We appreciate you spending your time with us, and hopefully you have learned a little bit of gold today that you can apply in your life. If you would like to reach Hilary or myself, you can reach us at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org, or you can find me on Facebook. Jen Daly Dash the family. Please check out our website. The Family Place Utah and you can catch any of our virtual classes, which we have a ton and you're welcome to attend. We thank you and we will see you back here next week.

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