Being lost in the wilderness might be one of the scariest things we can imagine happening to us. Kaden Laga is with Jen and Hilary today to tell us his story of getting lost, and eventually found in the Montana wilderness. Listen in for an intriguing story and heartfelt acceptance of what helped Kaden survive.
Kaden Laga has been married for 7 years, is a father of 2 boys, and works in digital advertising. He is still an outdoors enthusiast.
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. We thank you guys for being here and I can tell already that you guys are in for a treat today. We are excited for our guest who is here with us today, and I was just joking with him earlier that when I found out that he was going to be our guest and was going to share the topic at hand, I was automatically intrigued. And so, I'm excited to hear his story, as I'm sure you guys are as well too. And this is on our segment, our story of Resilience segment as we interview guests both within our valley as well as outside of our valley at the about situations and life circumstances that they have lived and been through and what they have learned, going through the process. So, with that being said, I'll introduce you guys to Kaden Laga. I'm hoping I said it right that time and I'm going to turn it over to you, Kaden, if you want to tell us a little bit about you. What you do, who you are, and then we will dive into your story so go ahead.
Kaden: Thank you, Hilary and Jennifer, for having me on the podcast. So, like they said, my name is Kaden Laga. I live in Utah valley, grew up in rural Idaho and I have two children. My oldest is 3 and the youngest is nearly a year old. And so, and I work in digital advertising. That's what I do for a living. Growing up in rural Idaho, we were big wilderness people. My dad was really into backpacking but also really into horse packing. And as he got older, he just got more and more into horse packing. So, I grew up. And the backwoods and the setting for today's story is in the backwoods, so there's some context with me. Definitely grew up in the mountains.
Hilary: OK. And so having two little ones yourself, it sounds like you guys probably, I mean you're keeping yourself quite busy with that three and one year old.
Kaden: Yes, both are boys and it is a lot. It is a lot, as I'm sure a lot of you know.
Hilary: We love them. But sometimes we're, like, let us sleep just a little bit more than what we are sleeping. Well, that's awesome. Well, Kaden, thanks for sharing a little bit about that. And as he mentioned, having this childhood and this life of being outside and being outdoors is exactly where our story is going to go. So, Kaden, if you will, I'm just going to turn the time over to you a little bit and if you'll just share your story as to what happened.
Kaden: Absolutely so. After I moved, I've been in Utah for a little over 7 years and my parents moved from Idaho to Montana, and so I go would go up every summer and do a trip with my dad, so it was pretty standard fare. No, generally it was a horse packing trip. And so we went, like we did, you know, many years he where they lived in Montana is near the Bitterroot Wilderness area. And I think it's important, especially if a lot of the viewers are in Utah to understand how different the Bitterroot wilderness is from any kind of hiking that you're doing in Utah. It is the largest wilderness area in the US, except for some wilderness areas in Alaska, so this is a very deep that country. These trails are not cut for leisure, they are old fire trails that are maintained once a year and the maintenance is cutting out trees and generally a trail will become ridden with trees again about a week after being cutting out, cutting out, but still navigate, you're still able to navigate. So we travel with, we would travel with like tools to cut down trees that were in the way if it was not passable for horses. It's also not uncommon in these trails to lose the trail for a certain period of time and pick it up again, because like I said, these are not leisurely trails. We're also at least at the trailhead, 50 miles from civilization, with very few other vehicles that frequent the trails. And then whatever additional distance in you're in. So it's just important for you to know because I got lost. People kind of went, why didn't you just walk towards the city? And that's a very funny comment to think of because I'm familiar with that country. But if you're not, I can understand, you know. If I hike up Cottonwood Canyon, I don't think I can get lost up Cottonwood Canyon. No matter how hard I try. You just need to follow the traffic. That's the situation. It was me, my dad and my little brother and my little sister who were on the trip. It was only supposed to be a three day trip. I had work I needed to be back to on Monday and we were supposed to come out Sunday night. But Sunday morning things went south. My little brother, my little brothers horse became lame. And we was really struggling for the first half of the day and then he got to a point where he was could not proceed and would not proceed with any amount of encouragement that we could give him. So this can happen where especially in cases of illness, we don't know exactly what the scenario was with the animal, but where they get so bad. It's not that we're riding them so hard. It wasn't like we were covering so much ground, but the horse was obviously ill. Was having difficulties with his legs and stood and basically said I will not move. I am going to die here. So we spent the greater half of the afternoon trying to figure it out and just got to a point where we said we need to abandon this animal and come back for it later.
We were at this point probably a good at least 20 miles from the trailhead because and so we were very far behind on the day. So we unsettled the horse, configured how we were going to get the gear out and we decided that we were going to switch people walking so that we could cover the 20 miles and if worse came to worse, I was just going to need to miss work the next day. And we were. I mean, we were going to need to just get out when we could safely. And so I quickly ate lunch, and since I was one of the stronger hikers, I said I will hike out ahead. I can put some serious distance on. And you all will catch up to me. And then, depending on my fatigue levels, we can switch out. So I took off. And I have with this story from this point on I have the benefit of hindsight, and I also have gone back and retraced all of my steps. So I have a very good understanding of what happened, what went wrong. So you get the privilege of knowing that I definitely did not. So there are trails that of course are not maintained. But used to be maintained years and years ago. And sometimes those trails can have spurts that are clearer than the real trail that is cut out, and that is what happened to me. So I was at an intersection without realizing I was at an intersection and my trail I could not see on foot. I could see it on horseback when I came back. But you could not see far enough up the, the mountain that we were climbing to see where the trail was. Like it's I could clearly see the detour trail, so I didn't even have any warning lights going off of. Ohh this is an intersection. It just looked like a continuous trail to me and it was heading in the same direction as we were heading. Like it matched up with the map. I did not have the map on me. But I had been navigating, and so I had it pretty well memorized. All the difference, it shows all the trails, even if they're not maintained. What exist. And I had estimated that we were not anywhere near an intersection.
So for me everything is flashing good. This is the right direction to go. It's not even the thought, honestly. And then as I continue down this trail, a good mile 2 miles, the trail becomes not as clear as it was and actually becomes very rough and I'm needing to navigate by old cuts, so I'm looking for trees that have been cut by man and that to me is indicating I am on a trail. So that continues for a while until I stop and I think and I go, there's no way I'm I've been hiking for at least two, two or three hours. There's no way they couldn't have caught me by now. I was moving very quickly, but there was no way that they wouldn't have caught up to me at that point on horseback. And then immediately I went, I am lost. I am the wrong direction. I'm a long way from the trailhead. And I will die. Like I have made the critical error that cannot be, that I can't climb back from and. Yeah, it was. And so with that came honestly, some very immediate peace of, you know, what a beautiful place to die. I believe that there's life after this life. And for that reason I just went, I guess this is it. You know what I mean? Like there's statistics of people who die in the wilderness. And I happen to be that number. And this is where my, you know, my mortal journey ends and that's OK. However, at the time, my wife was pregnant with our first child and so she would have been about six or seven months pregnant at this point. And so then my very next thought after feeling that peace was you don't get to be at peace and you don't get to die, you have to fight to, to keep your commitment. You need to raise your child. Which was very daunting. But I was like OK. I need to put on my thinking cap now, I can't die. That's not OK. And so I constructed a plan. The problem is however, so I had a plan and people go well, why don't you just go back the way you go? The problem is I was not able to re-find the trail that I had been roughly following. One of the difficulties is that when I had my realization, I was at least probably 1/4 of a mile into a wood fallen area and that was one of the things that prompted my realization. Is even if the horses are following me, they won't be able to get through this. I need to go back. And then I went. Ohh. No, they've got to be. So I'm well off at this point. And I will tell you, cause I went and actually retraced the wrong trail with my dad. When I went back. Him and I could not find the trail even knowing we were going to lose it on the way back, it was easier to see on the way after it was impossible to find on the way back. So him and I, even when we were out there, we had to navigate by luckily we had been memorizing you know, all the different indicators, so we could know where we needed to travel, but I was not planning on backtracking, right, so I was not quite as observant. So I really struggled to find the trail I luckily had memorized a few landmarks and was able to find those, therefore meaning that I had at least found a section of the trail that I was on. But I could not find because how the trail had gone as it take me into a dip and then up onto a Ridge. I could not find the way to get back to that intersection and because that was not clearly marked at all. And so, I spent the evening and the rest of the day walking this Ridge trying to find where that intersection could possibly be and was just not able to and it also had been raining all day and all I had on me was an Nalgene water bottle. That was about 1/4 filled. A granola bar, and luckily had was wearing a heavy sweater and my rain slicker that was able to keep me cool. So I walked the Ridge until I found so. Anyways, I'm walking back and forth on the Ridge. The sun is starting to set. And because I'm on a Ridge, it's very windy. I'm very wet. You know, all over my pants because I'm walking in weeds and things like that. So I need to camp for the night. So I dug myself a little hole before I totally lost the light, pulled some logs together to try and block me from the winds, and the first night was definitely the scariest. Probably the closest I was to death for sure, the whole time. So I had to take my pants and socks off because they were. That try and tuck the my legs up underneath my sweater. So I'm tied into a very tight ball and uncontrollably shaking so I would sleep about 10 minutes at a time. At least that's how it felt. And then just wake up from the shaking. And so anyways, that was honestly the whole night was just trying to stay warm enough. Stay moving around and I didn't dare put on my wet clothes and pace around, but that that may have that may have helped to have kept me warm. But it was anyways, it was a really rough night. Morning came. Heat did not come immediately and I was sick of being cold, so I put my socks on, which were frozen and slid them into my boots, and then just started walking around as I moved, obviously the ice thawed and then it was just wet boots.
So, I spent the rest of the day into the afternoon walking up and down the Ridge, trying to find trying to find the trail, walking to points where I cleared the Ridge and I was seeing landmarks I hadn't seen. So, then I started thinking through in my mind and went what do I need to do? What do I need to do to get rescued? Because my plan was to get back on the trail and either go to the trailhead or there was a camp that a trail cutters can fly into. That was probably maybe 10-15 miles back that I also could have gone to that I think there was a person who was stationed there. Who I who I could have worked with. And so that plan was obviously not possible. So I went, I've got three days before dehydration. I'm out of water. I've got to find a water source. And I obviously cannot figure out a way to get back to the trail. What they recommend you do when your lost is, of course, to sit and wait and see. Problem was, I knew that my dad, when he did not run into me, would call camp and then he would go back and look for me. And then I knew he would not find me and then he would have a whole day's journey back to the truck. And then at that point, I didn't know how long it would take for helicopter support to come and search for me. So, as I was doing the math. Went I think it's three or four days and by that point I'm dead of dehydration because there's no water up on this Ridge. So, I made what many Scout masters may be scowling at me for, but I don't know. They can eat my shorts because I didn't die. But I made the very conscious decision to break the fundamental rule of being in the wilderness and choose to navigate myself out.
I saw a Ridge valley over that looked similar to where we had eaten before, and I said I'm going to go that way at this point. The sun is coming out. I have finally thought off. I was familiar with a few berries that were edible. And though starvation is not a problem until three weeks, because my plan was to navigate myself out I wanted to make sure I was at least supplementing with some energy while I was going. So whenever I saw grasshoppers, I knew grasshoppers were safe to eat uncooked. I would catch the grasshoppers and eat them. Whenever I saw huckleberries or thimble berries, I would eat them or put them in a little zip lock bag. I found that I had in my pocket for I don't know why and it made a very disgusting jam as I would store that in there because I didn't wanna eat anymore of the berries. Not because I was full. But you can only eat so many berries. And so anyways, that's a lot of information. And so I'm going to Fast forward a little bit and just hit the highlights, because from here it's a lot of navigational blunders. It's a lot of long, arduous hiking through and bushwhacking, ultimately, right that people ask. Like Ohh did you cover so many miles? I have no doubt that I covered a number of miles so I was lost on my own for five days. So we were on horseback already at that point. For two of the days, right? We were out for two days. Then I was lost for five days. And then on the on. I'll tell you how that ended. But so for five days we already know the one day I spend the whole day right on that Ridge. And then coming down and then the next several days. I hike up on Day 2 to that landmark that I thought I recognized. It is not the Ridge that I thought it was, and I'm nowhere close. So, at this point, I'm going, I need a new plan. I'm very fatigued because I've just climbed up a mountain. I've climbed all the way down this huge mountain I'm on. I've climbed up another and I hear helicopters. And I thought, ohh, I don't think they're looking for me because that doesn't match my timetable estimate. But there may be a fire threat, so I ought to at least see if I can flag them down now. They were flying over the ridge where I previously was, which is too bad. So I'm on a Ridge over and I see a helicopter that comes and I am watching it literally all afternoon as it get meanders and leaves and comes back and leaves and I have taken my sweater off and fashioned it into a flag so I can try and flag them down and finally. The helicopter approaches me and it's right over. It was so close to me. I could read its serial number like I’m serious. There was the number and I'm waving my flag and I thought for sure he had to have seen me. He flies right over me. And then he keeps going. And I went, maybe he circles back and then he goes and he starts looking on that other Ridge. So I, you know, at that point I go, OK, I can't rely on that like that ship. That ship has sailed at this point. And when I've told this at Firesides or other place, they say ohh were you just so heartbroken? I wasn't. I was actually very quite dehydrated up on the Ridge and had wasted a whole day. Waiting on the helicopter and I for me it was like that sucks. But what this means is I have to be the one to figure this out and I now don't need to play this weird waiting guessing. How can I be the easiest to see game and I just need to figure out a way to get on a trail so I knew the right direction to the trailhead and so I said I'm going east. I will keep going east. I'm sustaining myself enough that I will not die of starvation. I'm going to stay next to a water source at all time and my goal for extraction is one month. I will take one month to bushwhack through to move through, get to the trailhead, and if I get to the trailhead, then I can't get any vehicles. I can't break into any vehicles. I will follow the road. I will just take my time until I get the highway, which is a good 60 miles at least. Away. And so I said, I just got to pace myself and just take the time that it needs.
And that gave me a lot of peace to be the one in the driver's seat and to have a timetable that felt extended. So fast forward now, a little bit. I cut through a river because, so I climbed back down off this Ridge. All there is a river. It's just there. You cannot walk on the side of it. There's so much dead fall. So I am skipping stones. You know, I'm hopping over stones in the river. I spend night 3 right off of the riverbed, which is quite chilly. And then and then continue on as soon as I can in the morning at night, I cannot sleep through the night. I try to go to bed when there's a little bit of light still out. So I have some warmth. And then when I woke up, I would just pace, hit stones together, do something to just try and keep my body moving to keep some heat. Multiple occasions tried to make a fire by trying to find Flint and steel, trying to rub sticks together. I even dismantled my phone to try and see if I could use some of those pieces to use a reflection to light up some Tinder. Just nothing took. And if any survivalists want some more old story. I have a BIC lighter, so I now travel with a. Emergency fanny pack that has a couple of tools in it. But if I would have had a lighter, there's it I would never have left the Ridge and I would have been able to flag down any kind of aircraft. And if I wasn't looking for me and my dad, actually he went and he took, he put a big writer and every piece of clothing that he. Dad, because he didn't want to travel with a fanny Pack like I do but just because and BIC lighters. Actually, if you want to know, are the most reliable lighter in any scenario than getting wets or anything. They've done all kinds of studies. I had a fancy laser lighter that my wife got me, and it turns out BIC lighters. The most reliable, the cheapest lighter is the best survival lighter. So, if you wanted a little factoid, there you go.
Hilary: We all know what we're getting each other for Christmas this year.
Kaden: So, sleep in the riverbed, I continued down. I see some promising animal game trails. It also is in the direction that I want to go because it's truly east. So, I leave the river and I cut across. I find some natural runoff springs that I'm able to refill the water. At this point I hit a point of just fatigue and I stopped hiking. Probably like 2 or 4 in the afternoon and just kind of sit on this hill. As I was traveling along the river, I saw lots of evidence of bears. Several berries that been eaten by bears, bear poop and that was fun. When I'm on this Ridge, that's my 2 closest encounters with wildlife. So, I wake up in the morning to a cougar. The shrieking of a cougar just on the other side of the river, and I probably am only a quarter of a mile away from the river where I was resting and so I move. Cougars terrify me, more than bears, interestingly enough, but I really am terrified of Cougars. Later that day. So I'm cutting across this Ridge, going the direction I need to go. Luckily, getting enough springs as I go reach a level of fatigue and lay down and sleep for a little bit and I never looked back to confirm, but I was woken up by the sound of a like a snorting, smelling and I can't tell you to this day whether I dreamt it or it was right behind me because I just got up and left. I just, I didn't. I didn't wanna see it. I didn't wanna look for it. I didn't want any trouble. The area I was in is much more prone to have black bears and black bears are not nearly as frightening as grizzly bears, or aggressive, so I don't think I was any in any serious danger. But I still don't want to be next to a black bear on foot,
Hilary: Yeah, well, that's really risky.
Kaden: So anyways, I continue down. This is now Day 4 right. I've had four sleeps. And I come down off the Ridge and I see a river, not same river I was on, but another one that probably contributes to it. And I go fantastic. That's going exactly the direction I need to go. That's a great water source. I can get off of this Ridge. It also looks very flat. It looks very walkable and there's a chance there's a trail. There might very well be a trail right next to that river. And as I get down. Yes, I have found a trail. A true cut out trail. My navigation had taken me a whole cluster of ridges over into another inlet that the trailheads are probably a couple miles apart. But there this is the next one over, right this lane. So, I'm overjoyed that I that I found this trail and I'm just a new surge of confidence. I also see human footprints, which means that I can't be too far from a trailheads because someone has been out there on foot as opposed to needing to go in on a horse. So, I'm very excited at this point. It's important for you to know my shoes are completely split out the sides. My ankles are very touch and go. My, I mean my whole feet are just have a lot of pain. And I've also lost so much weight at this point that the only way I could keep my pants up is grabbing each belt, loop the front belt loops on either side and pulling them together. So I grabbed a piece, a green piece of like stick that I could tie so that I could tie them together to try and hold them up. But I wore the pants without a belt before and then they needed you know that much support. And so anyways. I'm on the trail. I'm overjoyed. I'm nearly skipping with joy. You know, I see a little baby duck and...
Hilary: A cute baby duck
Kaden: I'm in very good spirits, and then as I'm traveling all of a sudden the wind just starts ripping through and very strong and the storm comes rolling in. And I'm laughing, practically laughing because it's just why not? You know why not? I finally have some good news. And anyways, I kid you not lightning strikes this mountain on the other side of the river and a tree and all these rocks tumbling down wind is blowing so strong that these old trees that are dead are literally falling to the side of me. So as every time I enter a group of trees I'm like kind of hobbling quickly because I don't want one to fall on me. Anyways, luckily the storm blows over and it was scary but I was fine. I kept moving. I was so excited that I did not go to bed at a good time, I went to bed right as the sun was setting and that meant I couldn't sleep for very long. So, I woke up probably around midnight only slept for a few hours. And I didn't want to lose the trail at all costs, but I had to keep moving and I felt like I could safely follow the trail at night, so long as I just crept along. The light is because there's quite a bit of trees. I'm deep in the valley. There's not much visibility, so I just very carefully picked my steps and kept moving, had to do a stream crossing or two at night that were not all entirely successful. So got a little wet, but you know kept moving. So at this point it's two in the morning and I see just a bizarre glow from within the trees. A light beaming through. And I seriously, I go, it is either an Angel here to take me or it is aliens and God is taking me on a tour of everything before I pass. Because and this is an important detail, I've been very prayerful the whole time and I'm someone who everyone talks to God differently. I'm someone who tends to get a real answer an answer I understand as opposed to a feeling like God and I communicate in words and every answer I got should I go this way or should I go this way? How should I be thinking about this? God would say. Whatever you think, whatever you think. And I thought, what an odd time to have no opinion. And so I was very puzzled as to what his intentions were and whether or not I was just going on a wild goose chase to eventually. I and that it was my mission to struggle or if. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. So, the whole time that's I think that's what made it so humorous is it was kind of like God, are you here to help me or are you wanting me to die here because you're not giving me very clear. And you know what I mean? So anyways, I see this light and I approach it cautiously. And then I hear the ring of a small bell like that you'd put on a cow so you can keep track of it. So, I realize that there's some animals back there through the light, I'm able to see a horse and it looks like kind of a makeshift camp. I have no clue who's in there. I assume it's a trail crew and a trail crew is going to be traveling, probably with weapons, and might be a little cagey so I want to be pretty careful at 2:00 in the morning interrupting someone while they're sleeping. And so, I keep a good safe distance and just shout out and just say hello, is anyone there? I need help. I'm lost. And then I hear a woman's voice from the tents. Rips open the opening. And she says. Are you Kaden? I say yes, I'm Kaden. She goes, we’ve been looking for you! She runs and comes gives me a great big hug. Her name's Robin. It was her and her husband Brett, who were friends of my parents that my parents had sold them a trailer, but they had kind of a strange relationship and when they had heard of my story joined the search party to look. And the funny thing is they were kind of given the assignment to go to this Canyon that my dad thought there's no way that Kaden could be there. Robin and Brett were kind of this last throw in. So, my dad had plans, routes for everyone else, but they were like, well, what can we do? We're experienced cause they had to be experienced. The police did not want anyone in there searching and my parents were able to work something out with them because they only let experience back woods been back there. Because they were experienced, they were allowed to go, but they were very last minute and he goes well. Why don't you go down this Canyon and whether you find it or not, you should have a nice ride. It's a really beautiful area and so anyways, it was if they hadn't have been there, I would have made it out. But it would have been a very tough couple more days because I had there was a massive mountain that had to be climbed on that last day.
So anyways, it was wonderful. They were there, they had an emergency pack. I had to be very careful how I ate. Because I needed to readjust my stomach for real food. And then that night after, you know, we were up. They had these emergency GPS things my parents had purchased so that they could even that deep, they could still send that message. Like they're like GPS, not GPS phones. They're different. But anyways, they can send a signal like a really rough message. And so, they were able to notify my family that I was safe and who can notify the police and everything from there so and search and rescue, I should say, not police. That's what I meant. I mean the police are involved as well with the searching rescue but anyway. So then that night, as I'm sleeping, I suddenly wake up and my heart is palpated thing and my body is fluctuating hot and cold and I thought I was having a heart attack and I to this day don't know exactly what it is. But from my understanding from the conversations I've had, your body and your mind change a lot in a high adrenaline situation like that. Your digestion slows way down, your brain switches to, I believe it's about 50% capacity. So, you hope that the 50% holds on to is the helpful 50% and not the not helpful 50%. And anyways, and I was, I mean, I was high on adrenaline constantly. Like it was, you know, it was a very, I'm sure you can imagine. So anyways, I had to come down hard and luckily it settled, but it was very frightening because it was my body finally releasing and feeling safe, you know, and that came with the a big release, right? That was kind of terrifying. We're getting close on time and I want to get to the actual learnings because these are these details are fun, but there's, you know, this is a life changing experience for me.
So, I'm going to fast forward a little bit. The helicopter is flying trying to find us is not able to so we make it all the way to the trailhead on horseback. We do encounter a black bear on our attempt. A little baby black bear, so I'm glad I didn't run across that as on foot, but on horseback it was not anything of concern. We get up to the top the helicopter is there. They fly me to a private airport. I'm able to reunite with my wife and several others, you know, lots of my siblings had come out to try and just be there, like my whole family was there looking for me, trying to help, trying to hold things together. And so anyways, it was big, big reunion there at the airport and then all the rescue party that was looking for me and things came to the house and I was able to chat through with them and. So anyways. I was rescued! So lots of details I went into maybe more details with you gals than I have with some others. Maybe it turned into too much of a travel log, but that is the details of my little adventure in Montana.
Hilary: Wow. OK, first of all, I need to know like when is the when is the movie going to happen here. Like this needs to a movie
Kaden: It's gonna be a lot of walking. I don't know if it would be much of a movie
Hilary: I just. I listened to your story and no joke, Kaden. But we can listen to this for hours and hours because I think it is just such an intriguing story that I'm sure. You have documented so that you have those details, but wow, so much of this. I just think this is. I mean, this is what you like. You said. This is what you see on TV. This is what you see in the movies and you have lived this experience and are now sharing it with us, which is so amazing. So incredible. I mean I got a list of questions I want to ask you. But I'll keep it, keep it brief, you know. One of the things that that you have mentioned quite a few times, that I'm still just so intrigued with is just the ability that you continue to have to think clearly and be at peace. Regardless of the situation and you mentioned prayer and you mentioned you know the fact that your wife was there and your child was going to be born soon. But I, but I think of so many people in that situation that would have given up hope at some point and. And so how did you continue to logistically make those decisions? And to think clearly and to not find yourself in a state of shock, you know where you essentially would have given up at that point, I mean is there anything, that you can say this was probably the force that kept driving me.
Kaden: Sure. No, I think that's, I think that's a great question. I mean, obviously I think there's multiple pieces to that, right? You hit on the faith, which I think is really large portion of that making peace with death is really if the fear of death rules your life and you're in a life or death situation, you know. There's, I’m one of few successful rescues out of the Montana Bitterroot Wilderness area. In the last several years, there have been a lot of people who have passed, and I've watched other people who have gotten out and they come out very rattled, right. And so, I think a fear of death can really control a person. And I think faith helps a lot to overcome that. But you still have to go on that adventure. You know what I mean? And so, I think there's, you know being you know. Being tough, being resilient was definitely something that I would say was very important in my family. And also I just think there were a lot of times where that muscle has had to be stretched and strengthened. You know what I mean? Where the stakes were so much higher. But the situation was similar to others, if that makes sense. This need to. I'm terrified, but I need to...terror will do nothing for me. That is not going to help me. You know what I mean? And so even though the stakes were higher and the situation was unfamiliar, I think the feeling was similar and so that that muscle was able to be used. You know what I mean. And I want to say too. Like there were blunders, right? I made directional mistakes and I've noted some of those in the story. There were laps and thinking there's something called, I hope I'm calling it the right thing, but directional madness. They see it in Marines as well when they train them on their navigation course. No matter how much they prepare them, as soon as they drop, it takes them, the good ones a few hours, the bad up to a day or more to get their bearings. To stop running in circles. And my most of that first day I had directional madness and could feel it. I knew it was happening because I was not rational and I was just basically trying to keep myself safe of my mind is reeling. I'm trying to. It's OK if I'm not on the trail does I just need to go this direction. I need, you know like my mind is just going and luckily I had the wherewithal to say, just don't descend anywhere, don't do anything that is going to break your leg, and don't stray too far. Like you can be as mad as you want, but you need like mad isn't crazy, right? But you can't don't put yourself in a situation where you can't pull yourself back out of because it's real. I mean, it is real. Like that is, you know, that takes a lot of training and experience. At least I would imagine to be able to not have that madness set in. When you're all alone and you don't know where you are you know what I mean.
Jen: I think you should bring your skills and go on alone. You might win some dollars with all your newfound skills.
Hilary: Ohh man. So, Kaden, I'm sure this is something, I mean obviously having you having gone back to the trail you and your father and kind of retracing your steps and I'm sure this happens for most people having gone through a traumatic situation but looking back. Is there anything you know in those initial choices in that story that you would that you think to yourself, I would have done this differently or, you know, we shouldn't have done this or are there certain big decisions that you've kind of are like kicking yourself about it or have you kind of made peace with those things
Kaden: Oh, of course. Yeah, I was very worried when I went back and I told my dad I said I may have some shame. You know, when I find out what happened and I'll tell you, I actually, because I'm I knew where my skill level was at which is I'm experienced but I'm not by no means an expert back countryman. You know what I mean? I actually don't feel any shame for the decisions I made and that doesn't mean that there are not a million or one things I did wrong. Number one, we never should have had a plan that required us to separate from the group, that was the first wrong thing to do. That is not something that we done. Number 2, though the trail, when I turned off was going the direction that we were going for a certain period of time at a point it did turn and I that should have told me that this is wrong like that should have been a warning sign that I detected. Also, if I was going to go up ahead. I should have planned for contingencies. I should have had a lighter. I should have had emergency supplies. I, you know, I went into it. You know, way too confident. As opposed to showing the proper respect to the mountain. To you know what? I mean to prepare for those things so. Yeah. No, there's. There's a long list of things that should have been done differently. You know what, I mean, but I think that's also a testament to how important it is to have resilience like what you hit on? I've read a few books since and connected with some of the survival community and one of the biggest separators they have found from people who can survive in either survival situations or other high intensity situations. Are those that can keep their bearings in a high stress situation more so than any skill or knowledge? Because if you lose your mind, you know what I mean. You will make a mistake. And so, I'm I like I said, I don't know all the ingredients to that, but I am grateful. What whatever played into it. You know what I mean from faith to divine, maybe not guidance, but divine protection, at least to my upbringing, to maybe who I am, whatever the ingredients are, I'm grateful that that concoction was the right one, you know? Yeah.
Hilary: So, I'm curious and knowing the little bit that I know about you, you now have a three-year old and a one year old and I'm assuming you've already taken them on many adventures out into the wilderness. And so now having little kids and kind of educating and teaching those little kids is there peer associated with you know, with this idea of maybe having those similar situations or now does it make you more prepared to teach them? What does that look like for them?
Kaden: Fear for them or fear for them, or fear for me.
Hilary: I guess. Fear for them that they may have a situation like that at some point in their life. They may have a similar situation.
Kaden: Yeah, that's a great question. I will be honest with you. I don't think they're old enough for that fear to be very top of mind for me right now. But if they're teenagers and saying they want to go somewhere by themselves, then yeah, there's probably some fear there for sure for sure. But as for myself, I've never felt more confident in the, you know what I mean? Because I've survived the worst and I'm that much more aware of things I was never aware of you know what I mean? Yeah, we're getting close on time. Do you mind, can I just share one at least one quick learning that I learned from this experience and I'd love to hear the rest of your questions. I just want to be courteous too.
Hilary: Yeah, please do go ahead. Oh, no, you're just fine.
Kaden: I hope you guys have got a hard stop. For me, because there were a number of outcomes from this I had to, I had to go through a couple of PTSD episodes afterwards. It didn't last for too long, but at least for you know, 3-4 or five months, they would happen occasionally without morning. And also I had to relearn a number of things very challenging for me to go to the gym and I had to actually stop going because trying to tap into like rage, motivation or something like that to work out just did not work and work. I had to relearn how to work too, because I was not motivated by the same way of status, accomplishment, praise. They just were not the same, because the stakes have been so much higher. UM. And for a long time, this took quite a while to work through and I just took the time matter of fact for a whole year after I told the story to my survivors and to the news stories, the news outlets that were following the story, I would not tell the story to anyone. For a whole year I would write it down. I would ponder on it, but I did not want it to grow or expand and I didn't know what it meant to me, yet you know what I mean. And it was a lot. It was a lot to sort through and I even feel like chemically there were some things that my body didn't quite adjust to for all. It took nearly a year for me to feel a little bit more normal. I was much more like on edge and things like that. But the biggest pondering of that? Was this really helpful anecdote. Which was, I died. I died on that mountain. And then I and then I was alive again. You know what I mean? Like, there's there was such a real possibility that. I could have died, but that not dying. You know what I mean is basically it's either. You know, it's a clone of me or it's a zombie version of me brought back. In life or it's just someone who's given bonus time, like the time was up and it was called. But then there was extra that was given, and that's what I have. And that anecdote has led me on a wonderful journey that I'm still on, which is death is no thing. Death has no sting. There is no such thing as true death. What do I fill my life with? And how do I? What? What? Do what? What do I want it to look like? And fear should be no thing. You know what I mean? Fear should be eradicated from my mind because I'm already dead. So what? Someone laughs at me? They're laughing at someone who's dead. It doesn't matter. You know what I mean? Because so. So what is it that I want? What do I want to do? What do I want to accomplish? Who do I want to love? How do I want to show up? And I will be honest, I do not live up to hardly ever. But, but I'm better than I've been. And so the other way that I can say it. Is if I am ever in a situation where I'm staring death in the face again. I do not want my reaction to be peace. Interestingly enough, I want it to be no gods. I'm having too much fun. Don't let heaven end for me because life is heaven and I'm making heaven and I love being here. And when I die, I hope that whatever death brings is more of what life has been to me, because I don't always do that. I, and I think, even as Latter Day Saints, sometimes we think that God is preparing this mansion, and so we're going to just, like, suffer and then we're going to go and he's going to be like alright here's how to be happy. There you go. Here's everything that you've ever wanted that you didn't know you wanted. And really, my thesis on life. Is that we show up and God goes. OK. Do you know how to build a mansion? Do you know how to build a community of people you love? Do you know how to spend eternity in a way that brings you joy? And I fear, and I know first hand my answer has not always been yes, and I don't know. You know what I mean? And that's my mission is I need to I need to love my life so much I need to make my life as much of a heaven as possible. That when I die, I'm just trying to continue to build more, have from what I've experienced as opposed to waiting for some moments. You know what I mean? So anyways.
Hilary: That you know, it's funny because oftentimes we ask our individuals that come on this podcast like, what is your why? Why are you here? Why do you feel, you know, it's so important to share your story and that's your why? And that is so powerful because I think there are so many listeners out there that are this is a great story, but I'll be honest, I'm never going to be stuck in in the mountains of Montana like, that's not going to happen in my life. But right there, that insight you just shared, I think that we can all relate that to our lives that I did live your life to the fullest. Take advantage of those opportunities. Be happy. Experience all there is to experience, and so I think that's so powerful. That's such a powerful message to leave this. Leave this podcast with. So thank you. Thank you for.
Kaden: Absolutely. And if and if I may say just one more. Saying I think that's what God wants to you know what I mean? Like I looked at the parable of the talents and I have said this to other people. What if there was a fourth person and he was given 4 talents and he invested them as aggressively as he could. And he got no return. I think the Savior would be incredibly proud of someone who invested so rigorously and someone said this, and I thought this was very wise when I told them that. They said the reason there's not a fourth is because when you invest you always get a return on your investment. When you are investing with the Lord, which I agree with and for me. That anecdote is still very helpful of the Savior. Being so proud of someone who goes for broke as opposed to hiding their talents or investing so cautiously as not to make an investment, but I really think that that God wants us to take full advantage of this experience he's created for him so anyways, that's what I believe.
Jen: Yeah. OK. Then I think like my mind is just going now of how can I apply that information to my life and I mean that was like a mind blow of we can all do better in living life to the fullest and partaking in those opportunities we have. And so thank you for that. That was great insight and information that we can all partake in so listeners like.
Kaden: Thanks, Jennifer.
Jen: I'm so glad that you came today and listened to our podcast. I hope that you have enjoyed it as much as much as Hilary and I have enjoyed it today. I learned lots of great things and we again appreciate Kaden coming on. We hope that you have a good weekend. We want you to be kind and patient to yourself and we will see you back here next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place Podcast, if you. Would like to. Reach us. You can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly- The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is thefamilyplaceutah.org if you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we'd love to see you there.
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