It's Holiday season! No matter how you celebrate, this time of year can be filled with joy and fun memories and it can also be full of stress. With all the fun things that can happened during this time, it can be stressful to manage time, routine, money, and the things we can't control like weather. In this episode, Jen and Hilary dive deep into the ways this time of year can be hard along with tome tips and solutions to help us enjoy this time of year.
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the podcast today, so we get to talk about the holidays, right. So I got to ask you to start out. Now we're obviously we do a lot of these recordings earlier and then post them a little bit later. So right now it's the beginning of November for us. It may be posted obviously at a later time. But at this point, Jen, are you pre Thanksgiving decorations? Post Thanksgiving? What's your thoughts? There's very strong opinions on this.
Jen: And I do have strong opinions. It's nay nay. You do not decorate for Christmas before Thanksgiving. I saw a meme the other day and they had Halloween had Thanksgiving, and they had Christmas and it said stay in your own lane and I'm like, that is perfect.
Hilary: So are you at, like, day after Thanksgiving decorator or wait until December?
Jen: No, I'll wait until December cause I'm the same way with holiday music. And I it's really ticking me off there's holiday commercials already. And they were doing that. A month ago.
Hilary : Oh yeah.
Jen: Like good golly. Lett he holidays, be their own holidays.
Hilary: So I for so I'll tell you that. So this was a few weeks back. And we had run in me and my me and my son who's 4. We had ran into the to the craft store and this was the day before Halloween like we were getting some last minute supplies for my daughters class party, which was the next day. And so we ran in there and obviously, you know, all craft stores like they are full blown Christmas mode even though we have yet to celebrate both Halloween and Thanksgiving. We walk into the store and it is decked out in Christmas attire and my son just like has a major meltdown. He starts to cry because he's like mom, it’s Christmas and he legitimately thought that we had missed Halloween, that we had moved on to the next event. He thought that somehow he had slept through Halloween and completely missed it. And here we were with the new holiday. And I'm like, sweetie. I think like I showed him, I'm like you see that tiny little half of a isle right there? That's Halloween. It's still there. Promise. Look, we will celebrate the holiday. But for in his little 4 year old mine, he really, truly thought. Gosh dang it, like it's over and I didn't get to trick or treat or dress up or do any of the things I was supposed to do. I felt so bad for him when he thought he has missed everything.
Jen: Poor little thing. See he even understand. No holidays out of your own out of your lane.
Jen: Yeah, I will, I will admit. That my husband had a day off last week. And so he started because the kids love decorating the tree. But obviously my husband takes care of, like, putting on the lights. And usually what happens is we tell the kids we're going to decorate the tree on this day. So they get really excited because that's their most favorite thing to do, and then they just sit right next to my husband for like the next two hours while he attempts to put the lights on the tree. Right. Dad, are you done, Dad, you done it. Done it, done it, you know? And it just drives him crazy. So I told him on his day off when the kids were in school and like today would be one of those perfect days where you can put the lights on the tree without the kids bugging you for the next 60 minutes. And so our tree is up and it has lights on. But that's as far as we go. We probably won't decorate for another week or two but.
Jen: Week or two??
Hilary: It's up based on convenience.
Jen: That's why you buy a pre-lit tree, Hilary. I know, I know. I know it costs more money. Yeah, it really does save you in the end.
Hilary: But. Yeah, but I usually we are decorating that weekend like of Thanksgiving. Usually the Friday or Saturday after Thanksgiving. So I've never, I've never jumped on the November 1st the bandwagon of decorating because usually I'm just not even ready yet at that point, like it takes me a few weeks to get down Halloween stuff. And the last thing I want to do is clean up all the Halloween stuff and then pull all the Christmas stuff right out after that. Usually I need a few weeks to decompress.
Jen: Agreed. Agreed. I just put my Halloween decorations away on Saturday.
Hilary: I know, right? I feel like we just did that so. I'm not ready to pull out the four or five totes that come with all the Christmas decor, so.
Jen: Bringing out all that Christmas decor. Brings stress, because now I know. OK, I've done no Christmas shopping yet. I have nothing and I got to figure this all out.
Hilary: It's the reminder of what's to come, right?
Jen: Yeah. Yeah
Hilary: So Jen, you bring us up in like you lead us into our discussion for today, which we have an article that we will post on our notes for you guys to read. But it talks about the six tips to manage stress during the holidays. It's by Dan Jackman. And I think that's important for us to remember that, you know, we think about the holidays and I think for most of us the holidays Bring a lot of. Joy. And they're fun and they're exciting and we get to spend hopefully more time with our family than what we usually do. Sometimes extended family and friends. But I think the reality is with the holidays comes some added stress.
Jen: Absolutely.
Hilary: And that's hard for a lot of people because there's a lot of expectations and obligations and so then you add that that burden, if you will, upon yourself when holidays come in.
Jen: Yeah.
Hilary: And I yeah, go ahead.
Jen: They just stress me out. Because they may look at my stepdaughter's list and I'm like, I don't want to buy you anything on that list. Number one, that skirt is too short. #2, I don't think you should be playing with that, you know. Things like that, I'm. Just like, Oh my goodness, how am I gonna choose what I'm going to get her when there's a lot of inappropriate, I feel is inappropriate. Like these little tiny skirts that she's like? Yeah, you just do a polite square or bend over and you squat. And I'm like, sweetheart, the skirt still comes up even if you squat. So, yeah, this year will be interesting.
Hilary: I mean, my son said to me, he's big into Legos. He always has been. And he. He mows lawns during the summer, so he earned a few $100s mowing, mowing different lawns over the summer, and he bought himself a very large, very expensive Lego set this past weekend and spent all weekend building it. And I don't know if I want to admit how expensive this Lego set was, but there was a few $100s that were thrown out in order to pay for it. It was giant, but we were over at a friend's house last night and she was asking my kids what, you know, what was on their Christmas wish list. And my oldest son set. I only want and he calls them the black box Legos because when you go to the store, that's what they're in. They're in like a black box. And when you see the black box Legos, that means that they're going to take your entire life savings. And so, when you said that I was like, lovely, lovely only do we want the black box Legos at our house so.
Jen: Does he watch Lego masters?
Hilary: I have seen that myself, but I don't know. If he has, I should show it to him because.
Jen: Yeah, that's amazing.
Hilary: That would be right up his alley. He's really good at it and I love that about him because he's on the verge of like. Child preteen status where toys aren't becoming as cool anymore, but he still loves Legos and so sometimes I'm like. So I continue to buy the expensive Lego set so I can keep you as a child for one more year, right?
Jen: Tell him to get a TikTok While I deplete your college savings account, tell him to get it do TikTok. There's kids on there that build things out of Legos on TikTok. Yeah, maybe it could be a form of income form as well.
Hilary: Haha that’s right
Jen: Then it relieves your stress of having to buy them
Hilary: That's true, that's true. But then I have the added stress of knowing that he's on TikTok, so I don't know. You know, it's funny because I love all things holidays. I do. I love, I love the lights, I love the food, I love the parties. I love going to the parties and planning the parties and buying the gifts and doing all the things. But I know for myself. My biggest problem is that. Because I like it all. I try to do it all. And so you know I I start out with these really high expectations of different things. My families are going. My family is going to do. And then about midway through December, I'm like. This is awful. Like bag it. I'm done with it all. And so then I get to the point where I'm not enjoying any of the things because they have become such a weight to me and it was it was interesting because so my daughter. Her birthday is on December 16th and the year she was born was one of my most favorite holiday seasons because it forced me to not do anything right.
Jen: Yeah, you have a new baby.
Hilary Because I had this brand new baby. So, you know, we had this baby and then we didn't go anywhere. You know, we skipped all of the big parties and we stayed home together as our little family. And I can honestly say it was one of my most favorite experiences because we just had this slow, low key Christmas. That I have never been able to duplicate since then, but it was so interesting for me to see how enjoyable the simplicity was that year. Of just doing the things that mattered most with the people that matter most to me, it was really cool.
Jen: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's because my husband's family is. They're scattered and so we don't really get together with them often. And so. It's really just my family on Christmas Eve. And a work party. Not invited to any other parties. I'm not very.
Hilary: Considered it a blessing then.
Jen: Yeah, so not very. I don't know. I just for me. It's the buying of things is more stressful than anything else. Just because I don't have a lot of other things to do, and now that our work is doing it in November, the last day of November, you know that's nice for everybody else who goes to all of these holiday parties. So now it's really just in December. It's just my family on Christmas Eve.
Hilary: It's so interesting that everybody season looks different and I think with that comes different stresses. Like you said, like for me it's all of the events it's. But for you it's a completely different stress and I think. Like recognizing that that all of those things are real, because I think sometimes we look at these people and we're like for real, like, it's stressful. No, it's fantastic. What are you thinking? You know, why can't you come to my party? That's silly that you're, you know, that you're ditching out on it, that you're cancelling it. Why aren't you bringing a gift? And so we have all these judgmental thoughts that go through ahead as to the why, right, we're trying to create this, this reason that we think is justified when we don't. We don't know, right?
Jen: Especially when it comes to like when you are having those parties getting it just right that you think it has to be this way. And you know what? Nothing ever ends up just this way. There's always some kind of debacle going on.
Hilary: Yeah. Well, that's the first tip that actually the article brings up is to accept imperfections, right? And it talks about being realistic that you're probably not going to have this Instagram worthy table setting with the six course meal that was made from scratch. And the gifts that were perfectly wrapped, right? And I think sometimes we do that. I'm not sometimes I don't know about me, but a lot of times I do that right, I have these unrealistic expectations. And then when things don't go exactly as planned, I'm like well. That was a fail, but really it wasn't a fail whatsoever.
Jen: Well, no one would have known
Hilary: Yeah, well, really it's true. It's true. I remember one year. So I love doing just small activities with my kids at home and I decided one year because I I'm positive I have seen this on social media. That's where you see everything, right? So I had seen someone on social media post about how they did a family activity with their kids every single night. And something small like so on this night we watched a movie together. And then on this night we made hot cocoa. And then on this night and, you know, we delivered cookies to neighbors. And so small things. But something planned every single day in December nonetheless. And I remember that was something where I thought. I want to do that with my kids and I started. I started doing that as they were younger. And as they were younger, it was really easy because for the most part. We were at home at night, our schedule was less busy, and so it was really fun and really enjoyable for us. But as time went on, and as my kids got older and they started to get involved in more activities and were gone more often than not, it became a huge source of stress. Because here we were at the end of the night, right. And we're trying to get the kids ready for bed and get homework done. And I'm like guys, we haven't done our Christmas activity yet and so and so then here I am like the Christmas monster yelling at my kids that we have to play bingo tonight because it's on the list. And you know, it was, it was this unrealistic expectation I was setting for myself. Did we need to do an activity every night? Of course not. Yeah. And so I remember the next year thinking to myself. All right. We've got to do some different. Because this didn't work and this. Fun family tradition. Turned into it just an additional burden for me and for my kids. And so I remember the next year, rather than planning out something every single day, I just got a big tub with lots of different activities. You know, craft supply lies and pictures and different things, whatnot. So that there was not a set expectation to do it everyday. But when we had some free time, maybe one night or on a Saturday morning and the kids were like mom, what should we do then? I could easily pull that bin. Out and be. Like, yeah, let's pick an activity like let's pick something to do together and then it was it became ohh so much less stressful because it wasn't this requirement that we had to fulfill every night. And my kids. Honestly, I think enjoyed it so much more that year then they had in the past. But it was it was a matter of me being realistic with what I needed to expect of myself and out of my family too.
Jen: Yeah. And I think that goes along. With the second one of reflection, looking on what you did, how did it work? And do you need to adjust so that you're not so stressed?
Hilary: Yeah. Yeah. Rather than just assuming that you can do it all. And I think it's good to reflect on. And what you've done in the past and maybe what you can let go of versus what you want to continue to do. I know for my family, there's a few activities that we like to do more. So, in your like downtown, Salt Lake-ish area and then when the holidays come, it's tricky because traveling back and forth long distances with the weather potentially being good or bad, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. And I remember a few years back, we sat down together as a family and we kind of listed all the things all like the bigger day trip type activities that we had done in the past and that we like to do. And then we realistically said OK guys, we can't do it all right. But if you could pick like your top two what should we prioritize? Which ones did you enjoy the most? You know, as you think about your Christmas memories, you know which ones stand out to you and that way we kind of made our list. When we have the free Saturday when the weather is good. Here's the two things we would really enjoy doing, and if we get to the other things, we get to the other things. But I really tried to stress with my kids, you know, we do a lot of stuff at Christmas time and I think half of it, we're going to completely forget after about a month. So you know, when you think back on last year, what are those things when you reflect on what we did together as a family, what are those things that tend to stand out? And it was really interesting to hear their responses because some of them were things that I probably wouldn't have thought were as memorable and other things I was a little less surprised, but it was fun to hear what stood out to them versus maybe what I thought was important?
Jen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that leads to the next one of spending. So, do you plan, do you budget out throughout the year about how much you're going to spend even on those family activities that you are going to do?
Hilary: Ah, that's a good question. You know, we do a pretty good job of budgeting out well, when I say we I speak on behalf of my husband, who really good at it and then he tells me what to do. That is his Forte is calculating numbers and inputting formulas and whatnot. So we attempt to do a really good job of tracking what we're spending and what we have bought and what we still need to buy and how much each one is when it comes to the gifts that we give. But we're not as good when it comes to the activities we go to. So that's a good reminder that we need to do better at that and include that in our Christmas budget because, yeah, I mean those, those little getaways and those little activities, they can be costly and they can add up too, so. That's a that's a good thing to remember. Yeah. I mean it's tricky the holidays are expensive.
Jen: Yes.
Hilary: And that's a huge stress for many people as they as they have not only gifts that they are hoping to give to their close family. But then you look outside of your family and. And I think we enjoy giving, but it may not always be feasible for us and that's a stress that's a burden.
Jen: Yeah. I've said for the past two years that I'm going to buy with every paycheck. I'm going to buy a $20.00 gift card to Amazon because that's where my stepdaughter posts all her desires, and I normally find something for my parents on there and so. I Figure OK, I'll do this every paycheck. 20 bucks. 20 bucks. Isn't that bad? Yeah, it's not that hard, but by the end, that's $480. I could be spending on gifts. Have I done it yet? No. I need to do it because when I look at that, I'm like. $480 for I'm really buying for my husband, a couples thing for the oldest one that's married. And then my stepdaughter, Lizzie, who's 16. And my parents, that's 480 bucks, is pretty good. I don't know in my point of view it's apretty good.
Hilary: Yeah.
Jen: I buy good gifts for them with that amount of money, yeah. And if my husband did it too, that would give us $960. But.
Hilary: You just need to rope him into this idea now.
Jen: Yeah, I need to rope him into this idea too, though, but it's like I saw it somewhere. I can't remember, but I thought that is genius. Yeah. Because then it takes out the spending. You know stress. But I haven't done it yet. Yeah, maybe I'll set a goal for this year.
Hilary: You know, I one of my sisters, we were having a conversation last year, and one of the things that many people like to do is they like to send out holiday cards. Right. And. And I know that I love receiving holiday cards. But there was one year this past year where my sister chose not to do it, and I remember asking her like, why didn't you send out your Christmas card? Why didn't you send out your holiday card? And she said, you know, as I looked at my list of expenses, that was one of the things that I decided could be cut and I think, you know, you think about these things and sometimes something like a holiday card, you're like, well, it's not that much money, but then you start adding up the cost of, you know, making the copies and buying the envelopes and the stamps and different things like that. You know these little things add up and so I think so often. It it's hard because. Like I said it it's hard to start cutting things off with the list of what we want to give, but when we do look at these sorts of situations, I think we can evaluate on you know, are there things that that are unnecessary? Do I enjoy the holiday cards? I do. Is it necessary for me to break the bank in order to send them? Probably not. Yeah, I just think.
Jen: If you do a holiday card and you want a holiday family picture, so now you're having to pay the photographer.
Hilary: Exactly.
Jen: And then you have to pay Shutterfly or whoever you go to get them printed and then to get the envelopes and then to get your stamps and. You know what? You you're up several 100 bucks by then.
Hilary: It adds up, right? I mean so. So maybe finding ways to maybe be creative with some of our spending and some of our gift giving. I know a lot of people that have transitioned. Over to virtual cards where they're sending it, you know, sending it a video or sending something through an e-mail, just a picture of their family and a quick message. I know a cute gal that instead of giving her teachers a gift which she had done in the past, she had her kids write a handwritten note to tell their teacher how much they appreciated, and then, as the parent, she said. I'm I told the teacher I wanted to start volunteering more, you know? And so, so finding, whether that be less expensive or even free ways to show that that love and it doesn't always necessarily need to be with a, with a gift. And I think that that's important for us to remember that sometimes those. Those acts of kindness and those experiences we can offer are just as good, if not better than a possession that we buy from the store.
Jen: I hear a lot of people talking about creating experiences over gifts. Yeah. And that's becoming more of a more popular thing to do. It is creating those memories. So that you carry those forever, you carry a darn. I don't know skateboard or whatnot until you're bored with it. An experience I'm liking this whole experience thing over a gift.
Hilary: Yeah, I think a lot of people have embraced that and tried to transition into that mindset of, you know, like the stuff doesn't last and rather than just buy and add to the stuff I already have. Yeah. What can I do to build those memories and keeping in mind that once again, in order to build memories you don't need to spend a lot of money, it doesn't necessarily mean that we're taking the family on a cruise. It can be something very simple that we can do in our home.
Jen: Hey. Yeah, but well, we have a great coworker. That gets lagoon season passes for her family and lagoons. Just our amusement park here in in Utah and then but then they have an entire summer of going to the amusement park and creating those memories, she still does like little stocking stuff, but other than that, it's that season gift card and kids love it.
Hilary: Ohh yeah, yeah, OK, this next one's. A doozy for me. It talks about maintaining your healthy habits during the holiday season.
Jen: So, this is where I say imperfection. I just expect imperfection.
Hilary: You know, honestly, I feel like holiday season hits and in my head I'm like it's the holidays. We'll wait till after, right and any healthy habit or routine that I have had leading up to that completely gets thrown out the window. And it's hard when you go to the parties and you eat the food and you have people that are bringing over the treats, right? There's always something to eat and it's all good. And for a lot of people, that is. That's the experience, right? Those are the memories where the memories are made. You know, remembering, I remember making chocolates with my mom in the kitchen. And so my mom makes these delicious chocolates and she has recruited some of the grandkids to help them. Which I love. Yeah, but then those chocolates get pulled out every Sunday and we pass them around every Sunday and we eat and eat and eat. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can't do this anymore. Right. Well, it's hard when those things are connected together, too. And I think they are for a lot of people.
Jen: Yeah, yeah. Most events do most events people attend do include food as well.
Hilary: Yep, yep. Food it brings people together.
Jen: So just expect imperfection.
Hilary: It's true, it's true. It's not necessarily that we need to put ourselves on a strict diet during the holidays because I don't think that. I mean, that's going to bring more additional stress to you, if that's the case. Enjoy. Right. Eat the treats. Enjoy the holiday traditions and. And the sweets and the desserts that come with it. But one of the things that I talked about, which I think is a good reminder for me, is just to continue to prioritize your sleep. Because when I don't get enough sleep, I'm not a happy camper and my kids the same way. When we're going to bed late every night and then we're dragging them out of bed early the next day to attend the different events, right? So, I think that's a good reminder for all of us that just continue as much as possible to. Maintain the habits that we all know that we should have to get yourself enough sleep and to, you know, attempt to maintain a nutritious diets and whatnot and exercise if possible. Which again, I know for us is tricky because. You're inside for the most part, and so finding outlets to run and play, and whether that be indoor activities or outdoor activities, finding things to do. So yes, that's the one I gotta work on. I gotta work on my own the most.
Jen: I had to work on it too, so. And I got to work on this next one responding with kindness.
Hilary: I was just going to say how do you feel about this next one? This one's a hard one
Jen: Especially when you're see I guess I don't have too much problem because I don't have that much family time. But. Ohh, being around everybody, for that amount of time. Especially with my family, where no one can make a decision. It's exhausting. Like if we're like, OK, we're going to go out to dinner this day during the holiday. Whatever. OK, what do you want to eat? I don't know. What are you wanting? Where do you want to go? Where do you want to go? And then it's like an hour later. And we still haven't figured anything. So to be kind, during that is super hard.
Hilary: It's true, it's true. So many of us, you know, the holidays are great because it gives you that opportunity to spend time with family, the otherwise you maybe you wouldn't be able to spend time with and or see. But it comes with a it’s own set of complexities because you have family members that again, you haven't seen very often, and that might be because of the reason, right? And so maintaining those relationships, despite differing opinions and feelings and different ways of doing things. I mean that that's a hard one because family dynamics are tough, so.
Jen: Very much.
Hilary: And I like. I like the advice that it gives in this article because it just says that we want to focus on our similarities and the things that you enjoy together, and I think if we can continue to have that in the forefront of our mind, you know we may have different opinions on finances or politics. Or, you know, different things that are happening in the world. But we do have some similarities and that is that. We enjoy being together with each other during the holidays and we see family as a priority. So let's attempt to spend this time together with each other because we do both view that as being important. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here, right? But we're both here, which shows that we do have that similarity. That family is important to us. So I think that that's important to remember that focus on those strengths that you guys have together. Focus on those similarities and maybe it's short lived, right? Yeah.
Jen: And maybe just don't bring up those topics that cause people to get uncomfortable.
Hilary: That's true, and it did mention in this article that that might need to be setting up some boundaries and some limits, right. And we're going to get together, guys. Let's try to avoid discussing politics because we know that's a hot topic. So we can talk about anything else. But, you know, let's avoid that this time. And I think that's totally appropriate. To be able to set those boundaries of maybe what is and is not OK and if a conversation comes up, that is unsettling for some to be able to step in and say, uh, you know, we're going to avoid this one. Let's, let's talk about something different. I think that's all right. OK.
Hilary: During the holidays, how do you relax?
Jen: Ohh you know. One of our most favorite things to do together as a family, which honestly we don't do enough and I'm talking on behalf of just my partner and my children and myself. Yes, we love just watching Christmas movies together at night. And I think sometimes we get so caught up with the hustle and bustle and all the activities that we have planned and. That those nights are becoming fewer and farther in between. And I think it for this holiday season coming up, it would be it would be good for me to schedule those times in because those are the times where we're just sitting down in our family room together as a family, just us, watching movie with the popcorn. Where I'm like this. This is the holiday season for me. This is what I want and it does. Those are the moments that I think I enjoy the very most.
Jen: So what's your favorite Christmas movie?
Hilary: Oh. Elf will always be one of the one of my top three. We watch that one every year. My kids and myself. I love that one. You gotta watch the old school. How the Grinch stole Christmas, right? That's a given. But I do love the new animated one that they came out with. If you haven't seen that one yet, it's adorable. That's a good one, too. And when my children go to sleep, my husband and I always watch National Lampoon's Christmas vacation. We haven't yet introduced our children to. That one that might be a few years off. But those are usually our top three that we. Always have to watch. So yeah, what about you?
Jen: Interesting. It's a wonderful life is one that we always watch. And we normally watch it on Christmas Eve. Um. And then I love the old ones so, White Christmas is one that I will watch and then the only thing I. Will ever watch off of Disney is the Santa Claus movies.
Hilary: Those. Good ones too, yeah.
Jen: I love those movies and I'm excited to see the 4th one that they've just come out with so. Yes. Those still they're happy.
Hilary: Yeah. I need to introduce my children to the old movie, to the you know, to the older movies because we've they've never seen, they've never seen those other ones. White Christmas. It's Wonderful Life. They haven't, so. We got to expand our our our media so that they can see the classics this year.
Jen: They might be bored with them.
Hilary: Yes, but they can also learn to appreciate them I felt like so.
Jen: I just love the, the, what am I trying to say? Or the story behind White Christmas. Yeah. Of you know. None of us know, and I think it's a great reminder that we're all super important. Because if we weren't in that in our space in this time, there would be a lot of things that were different. There were there's a great and I can never remember it completely, so forgive me but. A Wrinkle in Time. There's a great quote in there that says something to the effect. If you weren't. You are here in your space at this time because of a lot of decisions that have been made years prior. And you know you wouldn't be here if those decisions weren't made. And I love that it gives you, I think, a different perspective. And. And you belong here and you were. There were choices that made you here. So I like that message. That's a good message to start every new year off with. And so many people have depression and everything else during the holidays, stress whatever it may be, and for everyone, just to realize that they are here for a purpose. So I like that message. So with that, we will end our podcast today. We hope you do have a fabulous Christmas, Holiday season. Whatever you're celebrating out there. Please enjoy the time and remember to be kind with yourself and each other and we will see you next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place Podcast, if you would. To reach us, you can at parents at thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly-the Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is thefamilyplaceutah.org. If you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we'd love to see you there.
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