The Effects of Social Media

It is no secret we live in a technological world. But when our world is dictated by an addicting algorithm that focuses on the likes, views, and the latest trends, we lose focus on important relationships, skills, and moments. Aimee Winder Newton is here to help educate everyone on the dangers and the reality of the effects social media is having on youth. From how the state is addresses issues to what we can do in our own homes, this is not an easy topic so we are so grateful for Aimee for sharing her knowledge to help us get the conversation started so we can come together and make a change.

Aimee Winder Newton serves as a senior advisor to Governor Cox and director of the Office of Families. In this role she advocates for proactive policies to strengthen families in Utah. 

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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place Podcast with Hilary and Jen. 

Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place Podcast. Today I am flying solo today, my partner in crime, Jen, was unable to be here, but I will clarify. I am not alone. So, I have a special guest with me today and. I think you guys are in for a treat. I am thrilled that she is here to bring her wealth of knowledge and expertise on a topic that relates to each and every one of us, honestly. Regardless of whether we have children, are still considering children in the future, grown children, whatnot. I think this is something that we can all gain some insight and more knowledge on. So, this is Aimee Winder Newton and Aimee, I am going to go ahead and start by just turning it over to you if you want. To tell a little. Bit about who you are and what you do and then we will introduce our topic that we have for today. 

Aimee: Sure, great. Well, I'm happy to be here again. My name is Aimee Winder Newton. I serve as a senior advisor to Governor Cox and I'm the director of the Office of Families. And as part of the Office of Families. This is something Governor Cox started where he wanted us to have a better focus on strengthening families. We recognize that when we have strong families that children get better outcome. That saves us money on social service costs later on. There's a lot of benefits to our community and our state when we have strong families. And so, I get to focus on policy work related to strengthening families. A lot of the stuff I do is how to look at prevention, prevention of other issues. And so, I've been able to champion things like social media legislation and education, home visitation programs for vulnerable families and other upstream policies. I, my previous employment I've been a planning Commissioner, City communications director and executive for biotech company, a small business owner. I am a current Salt Lake County Council member. That's my part time job and I was a 2020 candidate for Utah governor. I love being in Utah, I have a wonderful family. My husband Matt and I have been married for 30 years and we have 4 kids and a daughter-in-law and son-in-law, and a new grandbaby as of a couple months ago. So anyway, we also have a golden doodle puppy named Ripley that we all adore, so that's a little bit about me. 

Hilary: Fantastic! Well. I speak on behalf of the entire Family Place staff, as an organization in general, we are so glad that the vision of strengthening families right and the understanding that this affects our community as a whole, that we are starting to recognize that and starting to embrace that and taking the steps needed in order to make sure that that's happening because I mean obviously with our programs, we feel very strongly that that prevention is the key. And so, we love when our mission just parallels so perfectly with what our legislation is thinking as well too. So, thank you for all that you do. Thank you for the support that you offer us on the ground as we do this groundwork. So, we love it. Well, Aimee, you mentioned that some of what you do has been geared towards this focus on mental health, particularly in regards to social media, which is what we want to talk a little bit about today. So why don't you start with the social harms campaign that you were involved in? 

Aimee: Yeah. Well, I'll just kind of back up a little bit and talk about some of the things that we're doing as a state overall related to this issue. So, several years ago, Governor Cox started looking at the data for our youth mental health crisis, recognizing that our kids are not doing well. They're we aren't going to have enough behavioral health providers to fix everybody's problems. So, we've got to move upstream and look at what's causing the mental health issues. And so, as he started looking at the data and we recognized that 53% of female high school students had persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness, and 18% of Utah youth seriously considered suicide last year. And only 37% of our youth got 8 hours of sleep or more. As he started looking at our Utah data, he realized like this is a bigger issue than just your normal ups and downs that kids are experiencing and recognize that the harms to these children are coming from social media. We even had our Surgeon General, the US Surgeon General this year came out and said social media is part of the mental health crisis and it's not good for kids. And so as a state, we started doing a few things. The first one was we decided to sue social media companies for harm. And so we're doing that right. The second thing we decided to do was look at legislation and Utah was one of the first in the country to pass comprehensive legislation related to reining in social media companies. And then the third thing was to do an educational campaign about the harms of social media to help educate parents. Because at the end of the day. We need strong and brave parents who are willing to tell their kids. No, you're not going to have social media. You can look at it again when you're an adult and figure out if it's the right thing for you. And so that's what we've been doing the last nine months, is we have a social harms campaign. Socialharms.utah.gov is where you can get all the information, but we've had TV ads and billboards and digital ads and we've got a downloadable parent presentation that people can use for conversations with their families or other groups. And so that's one of the things that that I've had the privilege of working on. And we know that this is an important issue. 

Hilary: Ohh my goodness. Yes and I think that difficult thing is that social media is a somewhat new phenomenon. And so we are just starting to understand the effects of what it has on us as adults, on our youth. And I don't think we like the effects that we're noticing, but it's tricky. Because I think for all of us, it's still a somewhat new world that we're trying to maneuver. And so, nobody has, you know, the perfect formula as to what to do or what not to do. And so, I love that you're adding in that parental education component because I think you're right. I think half of the Battle of social media is just the pressure that I our youth get. So while everybody else is on it. So I want to fit in. I want to feel included, so I've got to do that as well too and I think parents need to understand that we need to be that driving force, the one that's like, you know what? I know it's hard. I know everyone else may want to may be doing this or, you know, as you say, maybe doing this. But your safety is key and So what that means in our home is that that's not going to be a part of our lives. And so, I love that you're adding that parent factor there. I think that's so smart to do. 

Aimee: Yeah. Well, thank you. And we've got some tips for families. That we try to talk about as much as we can. That they include creating a family media plan, so talking with your family members about what's going to be appropriate in the home, what media will be used, how will it be used and when will it be used. And another thing that we push is for families to create tech free zones and encourage kids to foster in person friendships. This goes for adults, too. I mean, we're seeing a mental health crisis across the board, right. And I think even adults would admit that social media is hard for them. Yeah, their brains are fully developed, and we've got these kids here who don't have fully developed brains, who are targets for predators and the addictive algorithms. That that happened with social media is even some adults can't overcome that. And so, creating tech free zones so that at times your family says we're all going to put our devices away, we're going to have time together. We're going to disconnect, to reconnect. That is so important. It's important for adults to model responsible social media behavior, one of the studies that the Wheatley Institute showed that what is more damaging to a kid's mental health is having a parent who's always on social media. And so when you're a kid and you just need your parents attention to have to compete with Instagram for that attention, and that sends a pretty powerful message. And we don't want that. We don't want our kids to grow up seeing us with phones in our hand all the time, because that's what they're going to mimic. The other thing that we recommend and this goes on with what you're saying, it is socially really hard for kids to have to not have social media. And so we tell parents to consider getting with your kids friends parents, and we'll figure out what is going to look like a social norm for that group of friends. Have all of them agree, we're going to not have our kids on social media. They can text if they want to get ahold of each other and be supportive of each other in that endeavor because that's going to help kids not be the only one and feel so alone.

Now, if they are the only one and I'll tell you the governor doesn't let his 17-year-old daughter have social media. And I've asked her before, you know, how was that? And she said, well, it was really hard at first. But now she's known as the kid at school who doesn't have social media, and I kind of think it's funny. She's not known as the kid at school whose dad is the governor. But you know, this is this is one of her things that she recognizes, I think now that she's a little older, her parents are trying to keep her safe. And I know we had a neighbor girl whose parents had did the same thing, and she's 21 now, and she's told me. I'm so grateful that they did that because I saw what it did to my friends. And that's the last thing, is just reconsider allowing your kid to have social media. I mean, we know it's not safe for kids. I mean, the state is trying to say no, no children should be on social media. But even the US Surgeon General says 13 is too young. Look at 16/17/18 and consider when your child's mature enough. If at all during those years. And so that's kind of what we're trying to help people understand. 

Hilary: That was actually Aimee, the one of the questions I was going to ask you because I know that as we create these social media plans, I mean being human, we like to have a very straightforward answer. So, I know a lot of parents are seeking for, well, what's that number at what age is it OK and not OK for my child? So, what have you guys found through that research? Is there an appropriate age? 

Aimee: You know, as of right now, we don't believe any minors should be on social media. We just don't believe that the protections are there for kids, that the addictive algorithms are, they're too powerful to overcome for kids. And so, the harms out there are so great everything from. I mean, we're dealing with so many sextortion issues right now and predators and content, that's not appropriate. But more than that is the addictive nature of the apps. These, these social media companies have designed these apps to be addictive because the longer they keep you on the more money they make. And so having kids on social media, sometimes I was listening to a data point that said that girls, a good number of girls, I think 1/3 of girls in the US are on more than 20 hours a week. I mean that's a part time job. Like that's, you know, there's so many better things that they can be doing with their time. And so, we're just really concerned about that. We don't think it's safe for kids and our legislation is trying to rein that in a little. But that we even say parents would be wise to consider not having them on even the state of Florida just banned social media for kids under 16. So, it really isn't safe. And we need to help our kids understand that and just look at what social media is doing to even change the civility in our conversations. And what's happening to our communities like we we've got to do better. 

Hilary: I was. There was an article that I was reading a few days ago and it was talking about different schools within the US that were banning cell phones entirely from their school system. Yeah, and it was. It was making the comment about how, you know, so they were interviewing some of the kids in those schools. And one of them mentioned, you know. Ohh it was a little bit boring at first because we didn't necessarily know what to do, but after a while we realized that we could probably just talk to each other and it's like we have got you know we have lost that. Like you mentioned that very basic social skill. Kids are so accustomed to having that phone in their face and walking down the hallway with their head down. That that just something simple as seeing your friend and coming together in the hallway and having a conversation seems so foreign to them. But it brings me great hope that as I was reading that particular article, it did not take long for those kids to make that transition. So, I think it can be done. 

Aimee: Yeah. They're resilient, they can be resilient. And it is interesting to see what school districts are doing across the state, across the country, and this is something else the governors been championing. Please, let's have cell phone policies to ensure that those phones are put away during class times. I love what Granite School District just did, so they just came out with their policy where they have banned phones at all during the school, during any school hours for elementary and junior high kids. And then high schoolers can have it out during classes or in between classes, but not during classes. So, we've talked to some of the junior high principals who have already been doing this and they said it's so cool because kids have so many more friends now and this is, you know, they don't just go and corner themselves with just their phone while they eat their lunch. They're now talking and laughing and in the hall, they're making eye contact. Those are important social skills for our kids to have to learn. And so schools need to step up. But you know what's the biggest detractor from schools getting a good cell phone policy in place, it's the parents. Because we hear from parents who say, well, I need to be able to get a hold of my kid and I'm thinking, well, why, like, can you call the office and leave them a message if you need to get a hold of them? Like, can they check the text after school, you don't. I can't imagine very many situations where you need to interrupt their learning time. So that they can get a comment from you and the other thing that we hear is, well, what if there's an emergency and I need my kid to be able to call if you know, what if there's a school shooting or something? And our answer to that is if there's a school shooting, your kids shouldn't be going and looking for their phone to call you. They should be listening to the teacher and getting instructions on what they should be doing to be safe. So, I mean, there's just no good reason that kids need to have their phones on them while they're at school, and we really need parents who can go to their schools or their school districts and say please, we need you to do something because that's really what this is going to be a local decision, and they need to speak up. 

Hilary: And you know, and from my experience from what I've seen, a small group of parents that that parental voice can go a long ways. And so if you get, you know, if you feel very strongly that this is something that you want your school district, you know, or your school as you're listening to this. Get involved with that, right. I love that that we can advocate on behalf of our area. Yeah, to implement that change and you're right. You know, you and I, we think about our, our experience being in school where no one had a cell phone yet. We functioned just fine, right? We did. Yeah. Our parents were able to call the office if they needed us. And then the office staff would then send that message down to our teacher. 

Aimee: That's right. 

Hilary: And so there are ways to maneuver around this. We don't necessarily need to have. And you know, the reality is, is I think it's so intriguing that we have created this generation that feels like, you know, they need to be reachable at every single moment in every single day. You know, we grew up in this. We grew up in a generation where when you left the house, you were gone for hours. And when you came back, there may have been a, you know, a message or two on the system. And you responded at that time. But you know you could disconnect and be away for a small, sometimes even a large period of time and life goes on. Yeah. We need to remind our children of that. That that you can disconnect and that life will go on as is. But you can reconnect at a more appropriate time and it will be just fine. 

Aimee: Yeah, exactly. Well, we have tips for parents even as they're trying to wean. Their kids off of social media or devices. Things like checking phones in at night and not just in the kitchen because kids will come get their phones from the kitchen once you go to bed. Like checking them into your bedroom. As a parent, we did this when our kids were young. My kids are all adults now, so we're kind of out of that phase, but they we would have them plug their phone into our bedroom. You know we have their in one place where all their phone cords were and they come and check their phone in before they go to bed. I did have one kid who took his phone out of his phone case and checked in just the phone case and tried to, you know, connect it to the cord so it looked like his phone was there. But luckily, he has smart parents who figured out what he was doing. And we fixed that in a hurry. But that's something that that is good having rules like no phones and bedrooms or bathrooms is a really good idea. So, to limit the space so that they're not on their phones as much. If some people have even had, like a family iPad, where they will let their kids check their social media on the iPad. So that it's not actually on their device, which is a good way that you can help your kids wean off if you're trying to get them off, you feel like, oh, we let them have it too young. So many parents too have just said we did it cold Turkey. We just said we have made a mistake. They help show their kids the data helped them understand why and they said we we're going to change this and they went off cold Turkey and they said for two to three weeks their kids were terrible and it was a battle. And then after the kids started feeling happier. And they recognize that they felt happier. It's funny, as the governor has gone around the state and visited different high schools. He's asked the kids how many of you think social media is harming mental health of you and your friends, and almost every hand goes up like these kids know. But it's so socially tied into their lives that they're not going to give it up on their own. They need a strong, brave, courageous parent who's going to say I love you and I care about you and you're going to be fine. In fact, you'll probably make more friends when you don't always have a device in your face and you're not sucked into that world and get them off social media. 

Hilary: I was able to put together a very brief presentation for a project for work, and so we were on this topic of cell phones, not necessarily as much related to social media, but cell phones, especially within young children. And I was curious, so I asked my four children just this is the open-ended question I asked them. I said cell phones are and then I said fill in the blank, you know? And so, my oldest, my middle schooler, he was like cell phones are normal. Everybody has them. Alright. And anyway so I got to my 8 year old and she right now is having a difficult situation because she has a very close friend who has a phone, and oftentimes his friend will have the phone with her when they're, you know, when they have play dates together and social activities and whatnot. So, when I asked my 8 year old this question, she said cell phones are annoying. I hate them. Because I think she's seen that experience of. This is a huge hindrance to our relationship here. You know, if you are constantly on that phone in your face, it's not fun. It's not fun to be around you. It's not fun to play. It's not fun to talk and it really like I was very impressed at such an early age that these children can see that right. And I like that you bring up that fact that you know, if anything it will probably increase your social circle because it's fun to be around people who are engaging, who care about you, who are actively listening to you. It is very different to feel like someone's not paying attention and that happens when we've got that device in our face. 

Aimee: Absolutely. And one of the things that's interesting, do you remember back when we were kids, people used to say ohh you need to have family dinner together. You know that's the way to strengthen your family. Well, if you look at the data that we have now on protective factors against mental health challenges, family dinner is still at the top of the list. And it's because it's a chance for family members to gather, and hopefully everyone has a no phone at the dinner table rule, right? Because otherwise I don't know how helpful this is this exercise is, but family dinners are still one of the very best things that you can do for your relationship with your kids at your mental health and their mental health. And it's because when you're enjoying a meal together, even if it's Chick-fil-A, pick up. Then you get to hear what their day is like, hear what's on their mind as many times a week as you can do that it will pay significant dividends. And so, if you think that that is impacting your family in a positive way just that time to connect in that way, think about if you did it more often. If we don't have phones inner interceding in in those relationships and those conversations, I mean, it's a huge protective factor and so and we'll all we'd all get more sleep. And I'm speaking as an adult who needs to do better too, right? Like we as adults need to do better. We would go to bed earlier, right? If our phones weren't right there and we were distracted by that. So, we've all got to just make a more concerted effort and we'll all be so much happier and have much better mental health and stronger relationship. 

Hilary: So, Aimee, I'm curious. What would you say to the parent that opposes, that says hey, actually there's lots of really good social media, you know and you put this label on it as it being a negative thing, but. Is there good to it? Are there some benefits to having it in our life? What are your thoughts on that? 

Aimee: So, we really believe for kids, there is no positive that outweighs the negative. There just isn't. I mean, yeah, you can. I've had people say, well, what about certain communities who maybe don't have people that they know that can relate with them? And this is a way for them to connect. It's not worth it. There is, we really, I mean, we've talked to school administrators, we've talked to mental health professionals and they say this is not a good tool for kids. It just is not. The addictive algorithms are too overpowering. It will your if you want your kid to be more attention deficit give them a phone, right? Like, if you want your kid to have access to where predators have access to them, where they waste time and don't get as much time interacting with humans, give them a phone like the governor actually sent me a billboard he found once, that said, give your child social media when you're. Give your child social media when you're ready for their childhood to end. And that's really what it's about. I mean, this is not, this is heavy stuff like adults we can't handle it. We're now in political wars because social media algorithms foment anger and rage and these high emotions because that's how it keeps people attached and keeps people on. Adults can't even handle this, and yet we think that we're gonna hand it to our kids. Are you kidding me? And I hear parents say, well, you know, we'll put filters on or we'll do this. I would advise you go to. There's a Facebook group called Parenting in the tech World. And I've been kind of watching the posts on that because it helps me to stay in touch with like, what parents are dealing with now because my youngest is now 20. So I'm past this, like, you know, preteen, teenager stage. And I read and I can't tell you how many times are like, oh, my kids figured out the work around for this filter or they've now put this on their phone. These kids are so smart. So getting them either first of all delaying giving them a a device at all that has Internet or social media until their adults is great. If you need to give them a phone in high school, get them one that doesn't have Internet or social media. And I promise you your life will be easier.

I know. I was a mom who made my kids take music lessons my husband and I just we said we don't have a farm that we can teach them hard work and to do things they don't want to do. So, we're going to have them all take music lessons. Just to learn some of those skills of, you know, perseverance and resiliency and stuff. And every day, I six days a week, I made my kids practice and I did it from age 4 until they were seniors in high school. Like we didn't let them quit either. It was the hardest thing I did as a mom. It was before, so phones were such a big deal that would have definitely been the hardest, but I look at that now and I think ohh man, it was a grind every day. I'm pleading with these kids and coming up with little games to make practicing fun like so, so much work. And yet my kids now thank me for that. Right. Like your kids are going to thank you. And it is going to be a battle. But you know what? You're going to have a battle either way. You're either going to be battling their poor moods, or their depression and anxiety from this or the fact that they are lonely. Kids are lonelier than ever before. Ever since social media became invented. Like you were gonna fight a battle. So which battle do you wanna fight? Do you wanna fight one that's gonna keep him healthy? And ultimately, they will be healthier and happier adults? Or do you want to continue to fight these little battles and you're going to have a battle either way, make it the right battle. 

Hilary: That's some great advice because I think I think that's the reason why a lot of parents are so apprehensive that they're like they're going to be mad, they're going to resist, they're going to yell and scream and kick and you. What? Yes, yes, yes and yes, they will do all of those things. 

Aimee: Yes, yes they will. 

Hilary: But like you said, which battle are you choosing to fight? And you know, I think if you look at the long term effects, it's very obvious which battle you want to choose to fight here. So, you know, I'm curious, Aimee, working on this end of a legislative change. I know at our office we tend to always be in the process of creating a vision of what we want to have happen in the one year and the five year and the 10-year plan. I'm assuming social media is not going away anytime soon unfortunately. So, are there any plans that you can foresee in the future happening when it comes to social media in general? Education? What do we what can we look forward to for Utah and for our nation? 

Aimee: Yeah. Well, first of all, our governor got tired on waiting for Congress to do anything about this. And so we that's why we decided to take a stand as a state and after we passed legislation. So we passed the set of bills last year in 2023. And passed overwhelmingly and then this year. So then we got sued by social media companies and we were able to take kind of that lawsuit and look at it higher constitutional attorney to look really dive in. And this year during this legislative session, we repealed and replaced those two bills with two others. They do similar things that take it from a different approach, so we'll hold up in court better. So coming October 1st, these bills go into effect, so I'm going to just read to you what each of them do. Does Senate Bill 194 enacts an age assurance process. So coming October 1st, everybody's going to have to do that. And social media companies. They know how old you all are. I'm sorry. They know everything about you like this. Is this is something that the data that they're collecting on us is kind of scary actually. But they will enact an age assurance process. Anybody who is a minor will then have an account that defaults to a minor account, and those accounts will require default privacy settings to only allow direct messages and visibility between connected accounts. So, unless your kids friends with somebody, they're not going to be able to be contacted by a stranger. It's going to disable features that prolong user engagement, such as autoplay. Endless scrolling and push notifications, so it'll kind of help with that addictive nature of it. For minor accounts. It will prevent collection or sale of minors data without verifiable parental consent. And then it allows minors to activate supervisory tools for their parents. So yeah, your kids going to have to give you permission to do this but. I would assume you're in control of the phone bill and the phone itself, so you just say to your kid this is going to happen if you want to have this. And those supervisory tools include things that will help you set time limits for your kid on their schedule, mandatory breaks you total. On daily average use time and see connected accounts. So that's the first bill.

The second Bill, House Bill 464, it gives minors and parents the ability to hold social media companies liable. For the harmful, addictive algorithms that have caused children harm, and they'll do this through a private right of action and it creates a rebuttable presumption of harm. So, I'm not an attorney, so I had to learn what that meant. So, a rebuttable presumption of harm means that they are assuming the courts will assume that harm was done. Unless the social media companies can show otherwise, which they're not going to be able to do right, so they're not going to like that. So, then what the bill has is a carrot approach to it, which says if that they can overcome that rebuttable presumption of harm. If they do these three things, one obtain parental consent for a minor's use of the platform, to remove features causing excessive use, like the auto-play perpetual scroll and push notifications. And three, limit a miner's time on the platform, so no more than three hours per day and no access from 10:30 PM to 6:30 AM. So there there's kind of these two different approaches and that's coming to Utah. So, one of the reasons that we wanted to do this is because we know other states would follow our lead and that has happened, I said earlier, Florida banned for age 16, it was actually 14, but other states have done things. We've had all kinds of states reach out to us and say tell us about your bills tell, how did they pass? Did you have Democrats and Republicans vote for them? And the answer is yes, it was bipartisan. But what we're hoping to do is we're hoping that there's enough of a patchwork approach throughout the different states. But finally, social media companies come to Congress and say, OK, we're ready to play ball. We will help you. We will cooperate. Let's get one law in place as a nation that we can all live with. And, I think that's what we'll see in the future. I hope so. I'm trying to be optimistic that Congress is going to do something there. So that's one thing. The second thing that we can look forward to is I there's a bigger push for digital literacy. So Gab wireless right now is developing K through three curriculum that they're going to let people use. Free. And there's other entities too that are doing awesome things that want to participate in this space, because it's one thing to tell kids now. No, you can't do this, and it's going to be hard. I mean, this set of parents, my heart goes out to y'all because this is a hard time to be a parent. But if we're looking more upstream. For these young kids. Like we need to teach them how what this really is that that they're being that they are the product, right? And that everything that they see online isn't real and that, you know, relationships matter. Like, there's all these different things that kids need an education on. And so there is, I think we're going to see a push towards more of that. Which I think is super helpful and it's something that we really need. 

Hilary: Yeah, no. And I think just in my experience with raising my own children, it's been so interesting over the past few years to realize how much technology is ingrained into their school system. I mean, it was funny. I was joking with a group of people and my middle schooler mentioned. Early on that, that they, they don't bring backpacks to class. Once they get to the school, they put them in their locker and they leave them in the locker until the end of the day. And I made a comment to him one day and I said, well, sweetie, how do you carry out your textbooks around? And he said textbooks, mom, we don’t have textbooks anymore. And that's just the idea. Because I have a very vivid memories of carrying about 7 textbooks on my back each and every day, and so I think the reality is, is that. Very much of their education is being conducted, you know, on a computer and through different platforms to send in grades and posttests and you know they're making our lives and their lives convenient. And so, it's this balance of raising kids. In this new technological world. But not letting it take over. And that's a hard thing to do. And so, I think education,  educating, the parents, but then also educating the kids is key. They need to understand what that's going to look like for them. So, I'm glad absolutely that they are thinking that and that we're moving forward with some of those programs. That's a great idea. Ohh OK. Let me ask you this, Aimee. So, let's say I mean making the assumption we have a lot of parents that are listening at this point and thinking, yes, yes, everything I hear it's a resounding yes and maybe you want to get more involved in making these changes. Is there anything the parents can do to kind of help push some of these changes for the future? 

Aimee: Absolutely. So, one of the things that we created as part of our campaign is a downloadable parent presentation. And this is a basic plug and play like we've done all the work. They're beautifully designed slides, it's got all the different data points, it even talks through like how to use this presentation and there's even speaker notes that say now ask this now ask this. So it's a great presentation. We're giving it to everyone for free. Go to socialharms.utah.gov and there's a little well, first of all, we have it just over on the side of the home page and it says downloadable parent presentation. Just click download or you can go to the Resources tab and find it there too. But it's good. It's good stuff. And if we have people who are interested in this topic, we would love for them to download that, have the conversation with your kids, sit down with your family and talk about it. You'd have them be the first ones that you talked to. And then start talking to your neighbors. How some couples over one night for ice cream and do the presentation and have discussions as parents. And then if you're part of the school or church group or another community organization, do one of the presentations to them We need this message to be spread throughout the state of Utah and anywhere else that wants to use it, because it's so important our kids are worth the effort and we have got to, we've got to do more to protect our kids. 

Hilary: And I'm and I think the reality is, and I'm assuming that. Making the assumption that's that that's correct, but I think I think for most parents, we all feel very similar feelings. We know that, you know, we know how scary social media can be and we know that we should be reining it in or eliminating it entirely. But oftentimes, as humans, we're waiting for that one person to speak up. It's hard to be the one that speaks up and that rallies the troops. And so, I think oftentimes we spend so much time waiting and just crossing our fingers that so and so will do that. And when they do, I’ll Jump in as well. So, you know and I'll follow. And so, it's hard to beat that first initial voice. But I think that if we can build up the courage to do that, we're going to realize that we have a strong group of individuals that feels the same way that we do and that is willing to follow. 

Aimee: Yeah. So, it's interesting. We did a survey of parents in Utah. And and 88% said that they believed social media was detrimental for youth, so really high percentage. But here's what was interesting. So, here’s what was interesting. So, in Utah, I feel like a lot of times in Utah we say oh, we don't need government to get in the way like we need you know we need to be able to make decisions for ourselves. We had a really high number though. Who also said we need government to help us on this like 72%. And it's because of this. So, these social media companies are so powerful and the data they're collecting and the things that are happening that they're sucking us in with the addictive nature of the algorithms and such is so concerning that they recognize this isn't something I can tackle on my own. And I've seen it I mean. I'm online when I'm seeing parents post about my kid figured out how to work around this or like what do I do now? They've got this person pretending to be a peer that's contacting them and I mean, they have so many problems with it because it is an issue. But when we join together and we recognize that, you know, we can, we can fight this and it can't just be government. I mean, we're doing what we can. We're suing. We are doing legislation. You know we're doing what we can, but we really need parents. We have to be parents. And we have to be brave and we have to. Set those boundaries. Because we can't expect the government's gonna do it. And again, I know I said this earlier, but I'm gonna reiterate, I know as a parent, there's nothing. Well, there are things more terrifying, but one of the things that's terrifying is your kids not having friends. Right. Like, we all want our kids to have friends and have this social life and, Oh my goodness, how many parents worry that their kid came home from school and they said they didn't play with anybody at recess. And like, it's just it's we want our kids to have that social peice. I promise you. I can take it from the governor's daughter if you get your kids off their phones and off social media, your kid will have more friends. It is a fact they will be able to meet people. They will be able to connect with people. They will be able to connect in a deeper, more meaningful right way. Right now all kids doing online gaming, as their friendship or texting that is not the same as the hits that your brain gets for those connection and what happens to those emotions and so. Your kids will have more friends. It's gonna be hard. It's not gonna be easy. It's gonna be so hard. But you can totally do it. 

Hilary: Aimee, I think you've given us a lot to think about, but I've also think that you have given us a lot of hope and a lot of motivation to make changes on a large scale, but also changes within our home, which is what I appreciate the most, is that you've given us some practical ideas of what we can do today within the walls of our own. Well, as we kind of close up our time together, are there any final thoughts that you would like to share for our audience? 

Aimee: Again, just know how much we appreciate the awesome parents that we have in our state and in our country. I know not all of your listeners are Utahns, but we are so lucky to have the amazing people that we have in our state. Governor Cox talks all the time about the thing that makes Utah great and we consistently win, you know, first place in this or that and he has other governors from around the nation always say. What? What's the? Secret to Utah, like, why are you guys so awesome? Why do you have such a good economy and you're so family friendly and your people are just nice? And the governor, his answer is we have amazing people in our state and we have amazing parents who care deeply about their kids and about their communities. And so just want to leave you with thank you. A big thank you from the Cox Henderson administration and from all of us in state government who are so inspired by the parents that are out there and the ways that they take care of their families. 

Hilary: Well, thank you as well to Aimee. You know, it's like I said, it sure makes our lives a lot easier when what we're doing in our home is similar to what is happening on a nationwide level, particularly government level. So, we appreciate all that you're doing to make these changes on behalf of our families and our children. And we thank you for taking the time to be here with us, to share your mess. With us, Aimee has included some wonderful resources today and we will attach all of those resources in our show notes for your listeners so that you can connect yourself to the information that she has shared and we would encourage you to please do so. Please take a look at how you can incorporate a social media plan. How you can educate yourself and how we can begin to educate our kids as well too. Aimee, thank you again for being here and our listeners. Thank you as always for being here. Be kind to one another and we will see you again next week. 

Jen: Thank you for listening to the Parents Place Podcast. If you would like to reach us, you can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen – The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is thefamilyplaceutah.org. If you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we'd love to see you there. 

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