We love a good Ted Talk and today Jen and Hilary are discussing a great one! Harvard did a 75 year long study about adult development and happiness. At the root of all connections is the importance of human relationships. Join us for some interesting thoughts from Jen and Hilary, and find the link to the Ted Talk below to listen to as well!
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. Today, I'm excited to share this information that we have for you today. So, a few weeks ago, Jen brought up to our staff an article or a Ted Talk that you had found and shared it with our entire department, our education department, because she felt like it was information that we all she knew about. And so, we decided that for our podcast episode today we were actually going to share some of the information that we learned from that Ted Talk. And we'll obviously post that Ted Talk in our show notes as well too, so that you guys can watch it for yourself. But I am thrilled at the information that we get to give you today so. We'll start out with this. I think there's a lot of people out there that are seeking for this magic formula in life, right? Like the secret to life, the pill, the diet, the whatever is out there that's going to ensure that they're going to have all their wishes and dreams and desires. We live in society, right where every few months there's some new fad that we are encouraged to partake in. That ensures that life will be perfect at that point.
Jen: I wish I could find that.
Hilary: Right, they come and they go, and sometimes they participate. And we realized that, oh, that didn't necessarily do the trick, so I'll wait for the next one to come out in a few months we talked about this a few months ago when we were talking about. All the diet fads and things that you know, things that we could do when we were younger that we can no longer eat because now they're bad for us. They were good for back then, but now they're naughty so we don't do those things anymore.
Jen: Well we are all still alive. I used to take a drink from the garden hose every time I went outside
Hilary: That's probably definitely a no no these days. But yes, we're always constantly looking for like that magical pill, right? That secret formula that we can all be involved in that's going to give us this lovely, successful, luxurious life that I think we all want. And we're going to give that answer to you today.
Jen: Well, the in the study they even said that millennials, that's their big thing. The number one, I think he said 70% were wanting to be rich. And of those 70% or I think the 70% were mixed into the next number, 50% of them want to be famous as well. And it's like, Dang, I wish I had those. I mean, I just feel like those are. I don't know.
Hilary: Well, you ask, you ask any teenager. At this point, what they want to be when they grow up and most of them will tell you, I want to be a YouTube star, right?
Jen: Yeah.
Hilary: Like that's it. That's the dream they aspire to be because they've seen these Youtubers, they've seen these video game enthusiasts right, who play video games for a living and make a lot of money on that. Or these individuals that are giving cash to you know for doing different challenges and competitions. Unboxing videos that reach millions of followers, right? But I think that that is the world that these kids are involved in. And so they see that and they think that that is realistic and attainable and they were given everything I want.
Jen: I see. I want to get on a soapbox.
Hilary: You can go ahead and get on your soap box
Jen: I just feel like kids, nowadays they want to do these things, but they're such lonely things. Because it's. Yeah, you bought all these followers, but that doesn't mean anything. They don't like you as a person. They don't know you as a person. And so, it just seems really lonely.
Hilary: It creates this false social circle when I have this this number of individuals that are commenting or liking or posting, but that number doesn't mean anything if we don't have that connection to those people which technically, we really don't, right? They may see us. They may recognize our face. They may know our name, but that's about the extent that they know us. So that kind of brings us into the topic at hand. So, let's talk about this study that was conducted. And Jen, I'm going to have you help me with the details because I may not catch all the numbers. Right. But this study that this Ted Talk goes over is referred to as the Harvard study of Adult Development or the Harvard Study of Happiness. And what it is the longest study to date of human development that has ever been conducted.
Jen: Since 1938.
Hilary: 1938. Which is so wild to me and they mentioned correct me on the number. If you remember this that some of the individuals that were initially brought into the study are still alive. They're in their 90s. Yes, but there's still a small handful that are alive today.
Jen: And they're also studying their offspring, their descendants. So, it started out with 724 young men.
Hilary: Yes. OK.
Jen: 260 of them were Harvad college sophomores, but then there was 456 young adults from Boston that were from poor neighborhoods and now they're also seeing their descendants, which is about 1300 more.
Hilary: One of my most favorite comments that this individual and he is the he is the individual that's overseeing the program at this point. Robert Waldinger. Yeah. Few years ago, the researchers recruited the women of the relationship, the mothers, the wives and my favorite comment from this Ted Talk is when they asked these women if they want to be involved in. The study and the women basically said. Like, why do you wait so long? You should have asked us this a long time ago, right? We have given you the answers so.
Jen: Cause a lot of studies. Back then were just men, that's true. That's.
Hilary: That’s true. So, this was so, yes, they probably didn't even consider it at that point back in the 30s so I you know, it's interesting to look at the two different cohorts that they decided to study because you would make the assumption you're looking at a group of Harvard. You know those that have grown up with probably a lot of wealth and prestige and then those they who they strategically picked for a reason. Those individuals from that poor neighborhood in Boston. And I remember it describing in that study. Some of them living in homes without you know, running water. And so you can look at these two different groups on the outward appearance and think assume that you would get very different results.
Jen: Well, when we were just thinking, it just dawned on me 1938, how long did the depression?
Hilary: Oh don’t ask me those History questions.
Jen: I don't know how long that lasted, but even that's eight years because it started in 1930. Eight years. I mean to have Harvard College, I mean, they still had to have money. Yeah, to send them there. And there's people in Boston and.
Hilary: Yes. Oh yeah.
Jen: Well, of course they. Just went through the whole depression.
Hilary: Yeah. So probably in an even worse state of, you know, yeah, time than it's typical.
Jen: Just an interesting time to do studies. Interesting time to do the study, and especially what the study is about.
Hilary: Yes. Which we didn't talk about. So, what they were attempting to find out really twofold. They wanted to find out what it takes to live, not only a healthy life, but a happy life as well too, because I think we've done a lot of studies about what is required in order to live a healthy lifestyle. Right. And so we know that that includes diet and nutrition and sleep and exercise. But I love how they're tying these two components together. You know, if we want a healthy life. We want to live for a long period of time. I'm going to say most of us want to be happy, not happy. We probably don't want to continue living. So for a longer period of time. So, looking at those two things and so they took these two groups of individuals and they followed them throughout their life. And in order to, you know, find the results they were seeking, they did some basic questionnaires and interviews, but they also looked at, you know, medical records from their doctors. They did blood draws and brain scans, and they even talked about how a lot of these interviews were conducted in their homes. So that they could see their interaction with their partner and even with their children as they were older. Right. Because I think that there's a lot of indicators that we can take from seeing that interaction with those people. And so, they continue to follow them through their life. And as these individuals got older and they married and, you know, as it said, some became doctors and some became lawyers and some worked in factories, one of them was the President of the United States. Right. And so, they all kind of lived these lives and these researchers continue to follow up with them throughout this process.
Jen: Now, here's where the magical pill comes in. Right. So, what did we find through this study? Well, they went and they looked because they want they found that there were all these predicting things in the study. And they thought, well, how can we tie in happiness. Is there anything that we've collected that can connect it to happiness and they said by the time they were 80. They wanted to look at this and we thought that cholesterol level and blood pressure at the age of 50 would be more important. They were not. It was the satisfaction in their relationships, particularly in their marriages. That was the best predictor of a happy life. In a healthy life because then it also talks about later on. If you're not happy, how that affects your health.
Hilary: Yes, that plays a physical toll on your body as well too. So, it all boils down to relationships to those people that you interact with and you surround yourself with. That is so cool, because I think that that. It doesn't, it seems so basic and it is so basic, right? To think that's what it's about. But I think it debunks all of these myths. That we have in society now a days That it's not about the amount of followers you have. It's not about having a prestigious career. It's not about how much money you make right?
Jen: Because you said at one point if you make 75 million or $75,000 a year, if your basic needs are being met. If you all of a sudden made the jump to $75 million. That did not increase happiness. Yeah, because all of your basic needs were being met with the 75,000. Yes. And I and I thought about that for money for a minute. I'm like, Dang, I'd like 75 million dollars.
Hilary: Yeah, that would make me really happy.
Jen: But then we started thinking, I watched this. I remember, it had to be a documentary about a man that had won the lottery. And he still lived a very, very simple life after he won the money, but what had happened is all of these people came out of the woodworks wanted a piece of his money? Yeah. And he ended up. Like he ended up dying. I didn't, I just don't remember how he died. Oh, yes, I do now. Someone who had started a business with him and he thought it was all on the up and up had ended up killing him for his money. So, money just brings it out.
Hilary: Yeah. Well, and I think that's a good reminder right there that you know all of a sudden. This this man. Who many probably would have considered, as you know, this humble, no name person had lots of friends or we would say “friends”, right. Like you said, people coming out of the woodworks. But those people weren't truly his people. And so yes, he probably had hundreds, if not thousands of people that all of a sudden would say, hey. You know me, we've been together for this long. We've been an acquaintance. We've been friends in the past. Yeah. How come we can't be now?
Jen: OK, give me a loan.
Hilary: That's not necessarily the type of relationship that we're looking for. You know, I, think about one of my relatives and I wont disclose who this relative is. But this relative is quite wealthy and worked very hard in order to accumulate the wealth that they have. But a long time ago. They he decided that with part of the money that he had, he put a large sum of money into a pot for the purpose of getting his family together for family vacations and family reunions and whatnot, and. And so, you know, every few years when the reunion comes around, he will use those funds to pay not only for the activities and for the location, but also for people to travel and to make their way. If they can't financially make it happen on their own and he has said many, many times, that was the best financial decision I ever made in my life.
Jen: Because it's those relationships that are making him happy.
Hilary: Right. Yeah, exactly. It didn't have anything to do with the number, right? And so, I love that. That's a constant reminder to me. I think Jim Carrey, I think I remember hearing an interview with him where he talked about that he talked about how wealth doesn't equal happiness. You know, a man that is known for his comedy and for his laugh and for his smile. But underneath that may be very unhappy, even though he is a very wealthy individual.
Jen: Because he did mention in the study that, you know, if you do look at many of the famous people. They're not all that necessarily happy. I mean, I can't imagine doing their schedules. And yeah, having people take pictures of me all the time, and I mean that’s, awful.
Hilary: My girls, I can't remember who they were talking about, but they were mentioned. Some celebrity, and we're asking me about just basics. Like do you think that she goes to the store or do you think she goes here there? And I said sweetie, she doesn't go to any of those places. She can't. There's no way that she could. And so, I said she probably lives the very secluded life and some of those basic things that you are allowed to do every day that we don't even that for us seem like mundane tasks to those individuals probably seem like a luxury to be able to, you know, walk in the park. And so it was interesting to have that conversation with my girls and open up, you know, like, that realization that it's not all that it's cracked up to be
Jen: Yeah, right side not. That's why I love Keanu Reeves because he still does all those things and he's kind as he does it. So. Yeah, but those are few and far between.
Hilary: Yes, most definitely. And it's probably still hard for him to do because you're constantly recognized. Even, yeah, when you do choose to live an ordinary life and so remind me because in this study it talks about 3 lessons that are learned. And I want. And I want to remind myself of what these three lessons. Because it talks about basically the first lesson being that it's not about quantity, but it's about the quality. One thing that I thought was interesting in this study, which I think is important for us to recognize, is that, you know, as it's talking about this quality over quantity, it also talked about, you know, being in toxic relationships and how all you know oftentimes, if you're in a toxic relationship, one that isn't causing you a lot of joy that that is almost more detrimental staying in that relationship than getting out of that relationship. And so, I think sometimes we, when we think about relationships, we tend to think about this traditional path of husband and wife to really beautiful little children. Right. And you know, and we think about like this, this Brady Bunch type image. But I think that it doesn't have to be that way, right? You know, maybe those close relationships are friend relationships. Maybe we weren't necessarily given the opportunity to have children of our own or maybe we didn't necessarily. Grow up with siblings, and so those aren't our people in our social circle. And so, I think it's a good reminder to us that we can create that social circle on their own. Yeah. And we get to decide who is there for you?
Jen: Yeah. You can create a family of your own that has the great connections.
Hilary: Yeah, because even a marriage relationship can be toxic and if even if we can say, you know, I'm married, check the box. I did what I'm supposed to do.
Jen: I should be happy.
Hilary: If that's not exactly if I'm not in a healthy relationship, that's not going to serve the purpose of being in that relationship. You know, I remember. I think one of the best lessons that you and I probably have learned in our life when it comes to relationship. Was this experience of going through COVID. Because, I don't know if I ever considered myself someone that needs people around me. You know, I like being around people and I like being in social environments, but I also see myself as somebody that can have their fair share of solo time. But it was one of those situations, living through COVID that you know, we hear about this all the time that. You don't know what you got until it's gone sort of an idea it hit me so hard living through COVID realizing how much I need people leaving me and how much when I didn't have the opportunity to have those people, how much it affected my lifestyle. And yes, I still have my family. I have my very close intimate circle with my husband and my kids. But not being able to see close friends and neighbors and that was hard.
Jen: It takes a toll. Yeah. And you think about it. If happiness is those close relationships, COVID took those away and now look at all of the health problems that are happening after COVID that are just of Whatever I mean, we have mental health issues, but there's also, I don't know, I'm just equating because, I mean, I've been trying to get into doctors and it's like a forever long wait. So, it's like there's going to be a lot of people that are in that boat to where that loneliness just took a toll.
Hilary: Yes, yes, not only about mental health, but probably also it trickle down to their physical as well too. That's interesting. I've never made that connection I remember. I had gone so this this particular experience was so impactful. It was so, so, so simple. But it was so impactful for me at the time because I remember I had gone to the store and this was during COVID time. And so, you know, if you had to go to the store, you were fast. You didn't take your family, you didn't talk to anybody. You were in, You were out. You disinfected yourself when you got home. And so, I remember I had gone to the store and I was in on a row that was full of, like organizational bins and baskets and things. And minding my own business and this other gentleman walked, walked up and was looking around. And clearly you could tell he was lost. He had a list in his hand. He'd look at the list. He'd look at the basket. He called his wife at some point and said I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking for and trying his very hardest. And he got off the phone. And so, you know. I mean, I'm at one end of the aisle, and he's at the other because that's what you did back then. You stayed as far away as possible. And he walked over to me and he said. Can you give me some advice? My wife is wanting me to get this particular thing and I don't see it, you know? And so I said. Yeah. And I offered some suggestions on what I would do. And at the end, he said. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you helping me and he reached out. He reached his hand out to shake my hand, which again, you don't do that back then, right? That was like taboo. No, no, leave me alone. And me being the person that I am, just instantaneously reached out mine as well too. And we shook hands and he thanked me for my help. And he went about his way. And it was. So profound that simple handshake, because after he left. I realized that interaction gave me so much joy. Yeah, like to be able to talk to a stranger and to provide some help and then to receive that physical connection. Like, was such a life changing experience to me to think. Wow, we really need that. As people, you know, like when we when that was taken away from us, yes, it was taken away potentially out of necessity for that small period of time. But to live that way long term would be so incredibly detrimental to us so.
Jen: You just reminded me of a situation when I was single. And I didn't get married till my 40s and I was at an Olive Garden. And the waiter came and took our order and came back and was asking us if we needed anything and I remember him placing his hand on my back and I started crying. And the people I was with are like, what the heck is wrong with you? And I'm thinking to myself, I haven't had physical touch from a different person other than family members, and I don't know how long. And so, yeah, so important.
Hilary: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jen: Yeah, it's so important.
Hilary: It's just the power relationships is so incredibly profound, and I'm so glad that this was brought to our attention through this study because I think we need it more than any other time in our society and at the very end of this video, he offers just a few brief suggestions, kind of like the take away of the lesson and basically saying since we know this. What can we as individuals do? and he offers some very simple solutions things like put your phone down. Yeah, when you're having your conversation. You know, if you're in a relationship and it's kind of in a rut where you tend to do the same thing every Friday night, try something different. Right. So, I think that it's just a good reminder so that I think for most of us we have people, but I think we take those people for granted
Jen: Mmmhmmm, Absolutely.
Hilary: And so being able to do some of those little things day-to-day that are going to help to increase that connection.
Jen: Another thing that he said that I really liked about later in life was retirement. Making sure that you replace your workmates with Playmates and that he was a happier retirement. Yes, and I think all my parents, yeah. It's just the tool of life.
Hilary: Yeah, yeah. And for many people, that is the case.
Jen: And I'm like. You guys should really make some playmates.
Hilary: Set of a playdate. You know, that's the other thing it mentioned in this video where it talked about how most millennials, yes, they're seeking fortune and they're seeking fame and they're overworked. And I think that's our society. That's how we were trained, as we were trained to work it. 40 hour at the minimum job. You're going to be better off if you work more like 50 you know. 50 hour a week job and so I think it mentions in here. I don't think you've ever had that experience in life where I don't think you'll ever see somebody who has passed and gone to the other side. Say hey I wish I would have spent more time at work, no? It's always going to be, I wish I would have spent more time with those people, those people that I cared about.
Jen: I was just thinking we as social workers are kind of selling. Because we do work those 40-50 hour. But it never increases our salary. Never!
Hilary: And we know better because we know this information, yet we still, as they and I use this term loosely, experts. Still don't do this. Right, right and. So I think. There's power in recognizing that this is an area that we can all improve upon. And yes, we have to work right? Like you said, we've got to fulfill those basic necessities or else that will play a toll on our, on our physical health as well as our happiness. But I think you have to find that balance between work and then a life outside of the office. Yeah. And a lot of people have a hard time with that. Yeah.
Hilary: I remember, you know. We had a colleague a few years back that we were having a conversation about retirement and she mentioned that she was terrified of retiring because she didn't know what she was going to do with herself once she retired because her job was her life, yeah. And I think so many people enter that stage of life and you close that door, that career door and you're like, well, what? What now? I have no hobbies. I have no extracurricular activities that I enjoy, these people that I live with are somewhat strangers to me. And so sometimes you're rebuilding connections and even starting over at that point.
Jen: I'd much rather be happy than working all the time it took me many, many years to stop doing those50-hourr weeks and figuring out well number one then your social worker your paychecks are never going to get bigger. And you live work for a nonprofit #2 you're just exhausted all the time that you do nothing else. Sounds like OK. In that 10 hours that are really do anything that couldn't have waited the next day, yeah, so.
Hilary: That's a good point.
Jen: I just want to thank all of you for coming and I wanted to end with this quote that he shared at the end of the Ted talk from Mark Twain. There isn't time. So brief is life for bickering apology, apologies, heart burning, callings to account. There is only time for loving and not, but an instant, so to speak, for that. So, it is life is so short.
Hilary: Stop bickering. Stop apologizing because we only have a short period of time to love. Yep. Yep. And that's the key. Yes. Prioritizing what is most important, which will always be people. Yeah.
Jen: And so, thank you so much for coming. I hope that you all can, maybe this week, practice on making those connections a little bit stronger, recognizing those connections that you do have, and we hope that we see you back here next week and remember to be kind and patient to yourself and we hope you have a good week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place podcast. If you would like to reach us, you can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly – The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is. TheFamilyPlaceUtah.org. If you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we'd love to see you there.
Episode Resources:
1. The Good Life video link: https://youtu.be/q-7zAkwAOYg?si=RPu9d9JIVCTvLGf-
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