Water Safety with Kids

When it is hot outside, one of the best ways to cool off in going swimming. Kids and adults alike love going swimming. However, when we go swimming in a pool or a lake, it is important to learn about safety. Kathy Obuszewski comes and educates us on how we can implement water safety and know the things to look for when playing in water! Get all the details on the nest age to start swim lessons, warning signs in the weather, information on floaties and more!

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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.

Hilary: Hello, welcome all of our listeners out there excited to have you guys here . We have a special guest with us today and this is the perfect time to have her here because here in Utah we are. Have we hit one hundred yet? Oh, on Sunday it was.

Jen: Oh, on Sunday it was.

Hilary: We did, right? I was going to say, yeah , cash value . I think we've been real close. We've been in the 98’s, 99’s. So, it's hot. It's hot. And in the summer when it gets that hot, the only thing that you can think of doing to relieve the heat is to go swimming . And so, we're excited because we have Kathy here and she's going to talk to us a little bit about water safety , particularly with our little ones , because we know that most of our listeners are parents and this is something that even if we know general information on water safety is something that we can still always continue to be better at and learn more about . So, Kathy, I'm going to turn it over to you and just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do as a profession .

Kathy: All right. So, Kathy, I am currently the coordinator of Aquatics Utah State University , so I lead the entire water program . So that means teaching some of our P.E. classes with beginning swim, our swim lesson and make sure that we have both the group and the privates available . Teach our lifeguard courses. And we also do CPR courses so always in and around with the safety aspects and stuff

Hilary: Always, busy, sounds like a lot of stuff to take care of . Yeah, we're

Kathy: Always running around, especially in the summertime . So just yes, putting out fires in some ways are like especially unfortunately , as always , we've been in a chronic lifeguard shortage now for about like three or four years , and it's not getting better . And so, it's something that being short and working on a university where we lose half our staff during the summertime because they go home. So, it's just like, oh , is like helping out , making sure that we can run our programs the way that we want to run in them and have them be safe and efficient . So, it's a little bit of craziness where I know today of doing a ton of swim lessons this morning, then , was certified lifeguard so he can work tonight and just making sure or just running around and just doing what we can , and then we had to call out . So, it's just like craziness and

Hilary: Well, you know , I'm so glad you said that , Kathy . Honestly, where you talk about the lifeguard shortage , I think it's important for parents to realize because I think so often we take our kids to the pool . We may be put on a life vest for them. We may not, depending on their age . And then we sit back as parents and we grab our book and we, you know , we assume we're off duty and that shouldn't be the case . We shouldn't ever have that mindset that our job is done.

Kathy: And just knowing that's one of the reasons why it's sometimes it's so hard to find pools that are open and that are having swim. Lesson availability is a lot of it's just because we don't have a staff for it. And I know I still have been getting a couple of questions here and there, like , why don't you have the six to eight a.m. swim ? And she's like, I don't have the staff or I don't like having people doing like 40 hours a week and like , it's easier for them to do the nine until seven rather than do a six-a.m. come back at 11 . And like, I'm trying to keep my staff as happy as we can. Because it's a part of it is, I think lifeguards lost a lot of prestige over the years. I really hate that meme, that's like if you think your job's useless , be a lifeguard at the Olympics . Oh yes, I say now and it comes out every year , and it's something that is just like . Craig Loomis smashed his head on the diving board when he won his gold medal in the preliminary and he had a concussion. And just even this past year at Worlds, one of the synchronized swimmers ended up fainting at the end of her program and had to get saved . So, it's something that it's just like even though guess what? I'm guarding a swim me or is tends to be pretty easy because like, we're only looking for the catastrophic health risk , but catastrophic health risks happen all the time. And in the water, you need somebody else to be aware of that. So, it's something that that doesn't help things having a certification where we're still around minimum wage and a lot. So unfortunately, some of the fast food places are paying a lot more . And so, it's hard to keep staff that want to work in the field. And I know I've raised up our pay rate a couple of times, but still not quite as competitive as Dutch Bros . So, it's like it's tough losing people. We're it, and it makes it even more difficult just to have some of that availability.

Jen: Many people thinking that it's an easy job, but really , when you need them, it's a life and death situation. You want them there.

Hilary: You want a very competent , well-trained individual , what you guys are doing . So definitely, yes. So, you bring up some and some news articles that maybe pose the question for me. So, let's talk a little bit about the statistics. What do you see? Who's most prone to drownings to, you know , when we talk about water safety , what population are we talking about?

Kathy: So, drowning itself is for ages one through 14 is the second leading cause of unintentional death. So, motorcycle, I mean, motor automobile accidents are number one . Then after that, it's drowning as a preventable situation . But when we have and when it comes to where. It tends to be 80 percent of males are the ones that drown and is also really high within African-American and Latino populations. Part of it has been because of the historical segregation and bigotry and just like not knowing how to do some of the basic things, like keeping the hair like hair care of the African-Americans were not allowed in the water . So, they are they don't have that same mentality often of we want to get the kids in swim lessons right away. We want to get people to know what to do at an early age. And the big thing is this is a preventable death. So, by getting people into some lessons or really doing it, making sure that we have the strong like . Having the fencing around the pools and making sure that you're aware of how to lock up a pool when you're not there because you don't want somebody to accidentally fall in and drown and then also preventing any of the unsafe play. Like breath holding competitions are severely dangerous and where it's something that a lot of pools have gone through stages of trying to ban and prevent. But when we're by ourselves, it's easy for like , who can hold your breath longer ? And it's something that is without coming up for air to get enough time, your brain starts to lose the oxygen and then you pass out . And then when you pass out in the water, it's not a good situation then . And the other one is too. I would say that sometimes we forget about four preventable drownings, even though statistically it does drop significantly . But when we're anytime, we're incapacitated . So, if we're drinking our ability to swim well it declines severely, and there's actually a really fun YouTube video that the Swedish government put on where they took their award-winning synchronized swimming team , got them drunk, and had them perform their routine . They should routine before they got them drunk, after they got them drunk and showed how significantly poorer swimmers they are. And they did that as a way of warning the dangers of drinking in swimming pools and Sweden's limit. They're a little bit more conscious when it comes to drinking, and they do have the both the swimming culture and especially when coming from the sauna , you jump into the water afterwards and often when you're in the sun , you drink. So, it's something that for them was a higher risk, but it's something I know one of my guards from, when I worked at Case Western Reserve University, when I worked there over the summers at Myrtle Beach in South Carolina. And he was saying how the drunks were always the worse for him because at that particular beach , you could drink on the beach . And that was where he had the most amount of his saves versus a lot of times at our community pool, it's the little kids who don't know how to swim and don't know their own limits. I think the biggest thing where I would say before the age of 12, kids just don't know where to be afraid of and or no , oh , I'm getting tired , I can't get to the wall . This is not. I need to come back where like once we get to be more adults, 90 percent of our swimmers that don't know how to swim at the college level, they're like, I don't want to go anywhere outside where I can touch. So, they are more aware and they have that fear and they have that capability of knowing when to stop.

Hilary: I have a daughter that I you share that and I just smile because I remember she took one swimming lesson and then she was like, OK , I'm an expert , right ? And because they just have so much confidence. And I she's a fairly good swimmer now at this point, but it's still interesting because she'll be on her tippy toes in the water . And I think that she'll kind of be bouncing up and down, kind of bobbing in , and she thinks that she can do that forever . And I know and I oftentimes remind her, sweetie , like at some point you will get tired . You can't do this for a long period of time. You might be able to do it for 10 seconds, but you can't do it for a long period of time .

Kathy: And that's why just encouraging to get stronger and get better of not knowing when to take a rest because there's no shame and take a rest. I know, especially with some of the older swimmers that I come across at times they get so nervous because it's like they're hanging out the wall where they're seeing everybody else just doing lap after lap is like , No , they started much earlier . They've done their build up the endurance. We all get tired of you. If you watch the Olympics, they're gasping for air and exhausted after every single race . It's so mean that they always put a mic in front of whoever wins because I like it's the worst interview ever. They are just trying to breathe!

Hilary: Just give them a second

Kathy: Ya, they just won but they also can’t talk, like what are you doing?

Jen: I like that you said or you mention fences because I just saw the news. It was on Channel five or something. I don't know. It's a news reporter. A child I can't remember if they were drowned or the little one was in the pool and they did everything they needed to do. They had the fence around the pool. They have the padlock so no one could get in. But it was just the younger child. Their older siblings just one day forgot. And that younger child went into the water. And so even though we do have all of those things and we're doing that right there. I mean, you get distracted , I get distracted all the time , you know ?

Kathy: So, and that's the hard part at times is and that's where the more that you can be conscious, especially when you know that there isn't someone in the house to just be really careful . Just like at the end of the night when we're looking up all the doors , if you have a pool, making sure that that's close padlock because the last thing you want is to find somebody in the pool , then the next day , I know that happened to one of my mentors , and it's something that is horrific and you know , it's so preventable with if we happened just like as much as you try to do things right . It doesn't always prevent every single thing, and that's the same thing when we do CPR . Unfortunately, you can do 100 percent , right , but they may not survive . But at least we gave them the best chance of survival. And that's the goal is to have the best chance.

Hilary: So, when you talk about your little ones, what age would you suggest ? Start getting kids into swimming lessons?

Kathy: I would say I think the preschool, like three to six or seven , are always a good age range because sometimes when we start at that parent taught level , it's more about the exposure . But the kids don't have that all the motor skills to really fully know what they're doing. And besides that, even though I've seen some great success with a parent taught lessons . But I think when you're looking for them to truly be comfortable and capable in the water , it is that preschool age and trying to make sure that we instill it early on and making sure that they're capable swimmers because we don't really want to rely on the floats , especially like a lot of the stuff that we see , whether the built-in flow like bathing suits with the floats in it. That's not a life jacket that's not going to keep the head out of the water and gives kids a very big sense of false confidence in their capability. And at that swimsuit rides up, it's going to they're going to have some severe issues . Same thing, especially with the water wings . And there's a couple of floats that I don't particularly always hate because they start to put you in the right position. But even then, you got to be very careful that we're when we're talking to with our little ones , said that they know you were , you're still learning and that we still need an adult with you. You need to be swimming pairs have to make sure that we have a lifeguard or a parent on hand , that we don't want to swim by ourselves really ever . And it doesn't matter what age group it is or how competent of a swimmer. You do always want to swim in pairs. Because there is risk attached to it, just like we don't really want to swim when it's the water 60 degrees because our muscles going to freeze up and spasm and it's that can cause drowning without doing it with even being a super capable swimmer .

Hilary: And so, as we as a parent is looking, what should we look for when it comes to lessons like , are there certain things that you would say make sure that they have this or this?

Kathy: So, for me, especially , I done a lot of the competitive swimming at times . I'm a big fan of making sure that they learn how to do. Bubbles get away from clutching the nose or pulling a breath quickly, because when we hold our breath , we make our muscles work 10 times harder . We are already using every muscle in our body when we're swimming, so we exhaust ourselves out quicker . So, getting into the programs are teaching some of the how to breathe in the water and how to know how to get into floating positions at times of being able to wear. I know I do a lot of emphasis with kicks with my kids because that kick will give us that buoyancy because in more into that horizontal position and then if we're using our arms, we can get to the side of the wall and it helps them be able to . And just knowing how to do more than one stroke that we want to be able to do that if we're getting tired rolled on our back. Float, for a few seconds , making sure that we continue to do that exposure of being on our backs because little ones tend to hate the feeling of being on their back. Unless they, I know one of my supervisors when I worked at Goldfish Swim School kind of pointed it out. The only guess at tend to really do really well in their back when they're very little are the ones that like to get their diapers changed. Hmm. The ones that which is not very many other.

Hilary: Which is not very many children.

Kathy: Yeah, most of the ones are going to squirm a little bit . So, making sure that we get them comfortable on their backs early on and it's interesting to me because I've noticed because I do teach from four months old all the way up through adult that about the time we hit that pre-teen teenager zone foot in our back is actually not frightening anymore. But before reading that, 13 age. Most kids tend to be hit on their backs , and Laurie was the one that kind of pointed out that in her experience , it's the ones that do well that like to have their diapers changed are the ones that like being on their back . Everyone else is somewhat like, we have to expose it to you and get them comfortable with it . And it's a weird thing, and I don't know why .

Hilary: Yeah and it totally makes sense cause it is a new experience. I mean, I love just relaxing and you realize that that is much easier than trying to be on your stomach . But you see these little kids put them on their back and they flail their arms and legs

Kathy: And a huge and I don't know why there's that switch when we puberty that it's like, Oh , this is really relaxing . And for adults, that tends to be the first float I can get them . Yes, exactly . Other than to always get the front side because they're so afraid to put their face in versus where on their back, their faces out of the water . If they can breathe things much more comfortable, it's just like getting them comfortable on their backs and knowing if I'm really tired . And so, lifting up my head, trying to do the doggy paddle roll to the back. Just rest for a little bit ?

Hilary: So, one of my biggest pet peeves about living in Utah and I've talked to friends and family about this is that. We put our kids in swimming lessons during the summer, and we do a really good job of exposing them to the water for the three months that it's warm here . And then we have winter for nine months and rarely do we get in the water at that point. And so, I feel like. They work on these on these skills and these strokes, and then they have nine months to forget all about them until next summer, when they relearned the same things as what would be your suggestion with that?

Kathy: And that's where I would try to keep them in so many year-round. I guess, like at Utah State, for the most part, we offer lessons throughout this entire school year. Now, I know in the month of August for all the energy of private lessons, but August 29, we'll start up with our group lessons. And we run blocks throughout the entire time. So, it's something that there isn't should be a purely seasonal.

Hilary: A summer thing

Kathy: Even if it's just for a four-week session of just as a refresher and a medal winner. And especially if there's any aspirations to go more competitive. It's a year-round sport. So, the more that you can get the kids used to of, Hey, it's snowing your hairs wet so you really want to put on a hat. Bundle up. It's not a huge problem. Yes, nobody wants to get in the pool initially at five o'clock in the morning on a cold winter day. But once we get in the water, it's totally OK. But we just need to make sure that we kind of treat it more as a year-round thing, rather than just a seasonal thing.

Jen: As see some parents thinking, Oh, it took some during the summer and the summer. They're fine this next year. My I just always worry about because here in Utah, a lot of people are going out to lakes and water skiing and all this other stuff. And so, I mean, that's a large body of water

Hilary: Where lifeguard may not be available.

Jen: I just assume that because you took a lesson in the summer before you're going to be okay now, I mean , you hear about all the time on the news of kids trying to cross whatever and whatnot.

Kathy: And that's where just even before you let them really run free, do that swim test at the beginning of the year make this summer. If there has been time off of doing that refresher like, OK, can we do that short distance on the front without touching down? And if we can, OK, great. We can, go continue playing and let it go. But if they're starting to touch down again, we want to work on the basics and make sure that especially if we're in the lakes, use our life jackets, we don't want to just pack it all the time. Just like we want to make sure that we use our sun protection is that it is. Unfortunately, sunstroke is another thing and will incapacitate us sometimes and just make us tired and forgetful. And we're being and that's going to impact our ability to swim. So, making sure that we know to take rests when we're doing a lot of swimming outdoors during the day time of staying hydrated and making sure that we are doing eating well, too, because I know there's always been that, oh, you don't want to swim on an empty stomach, you are on full stomach because you'll cramp up. But at the same time, you just saw an empty stomach you can pass out. You got to be in that middle zone of the eight, something with the has like good potassium, so your bananas , your tomatoes and different things of your vegetables. Typically, that will prevent some of the cramping , but also making sure that's not too heavy, because that's where I like to have a salad or yogurt or like a banana as a snack before I get into some of the water at times, rather than something like where I don't want to go two Morty’s and have a hamburger and then swim a lot of laps. My stomach just feels gross. and it gets very upset when I do that. So, it's like having that balance of maintaining some of that nutrition. And I know there's when I was in high school, I got a couple of fights with my mom because she would treat us to get some Burger King ready for some meat. And it's just like, I can't eat this right now. I'm going to eat it in two hours after the meet’s done. But this is just too much, too greasy for me to eat right before me. Like I want to be fast and

Hilary: I had a Burger King, doesn't do that.

Jen: I like how you said it. Just get in the routine of the sunscreen, the life jacket , those kinds of things. I know. I mean, being an adult, I've gone tubing and you see some people to be without like vest. And I always am like, So grateful for that life vest. When you are tubing and you're going fast and then you're bucked off because you're not really thinking and I'm just so grateful for that life vest that just pops be back up.

Kathy: Well, and that's everybody, you should be in a life vest and for tubing and such like it doesn't matter how strong they are. You want to have that life vest because it's so easy that if you get knocked out of the boat, hit our head, whether it's on a rock or on the boat itself. And we're not going to be able and we just get confused when we get a get thrown so we don't know where up is anymore. And that's where we want to have something that will help us bring us up, where it doesn't matter what age or how capable if we're to you and we should still be in those life lessons like that's a for everybody, not just for the kid .

Jen: I was even thinking when you mentioned the little swimsuits that have the installed floating in the well, what happens if those have slow leaks? And I never thought of that's not going to keep your head up. I've never thought about it like, Oh , they've got that little floaties all around them. But that's true. It’s not going to keep their head up.

Kathy: Yeah, it doesn't keep their head up. And then I know my niece is was very undersized for her age group. And when she was wearing it, that thing just carried her buoyancy so weirdly. So, she never knew what a good swimming balance was until she was starting to take lessons. Where we got like, that was the worst when my sister's been around water enough where she was like, That's not a good swimsuit. Like, we’re going to go back to the other ones and then we'll use the little float where the where the baby can but feet in and they're sitting upright with the heads out of the water and their heads have little canopies, so prevent some of the sun's stuff . And so that's definitely a much safer, but you still have to be around them, especially for a baby. You never want to believe a baby by themselves is around the water.

Hilary: Let's talk a little bit more about. Drowning, what exactly, I mean , as a parent for watching or observing, what are some signs that a child may be in distress? What do we want to watch for?

Kathy: Going into that vertical position. So, when they stop having any forward movement, when they're in a vertical position that is like their kick is non-existent, they're starting to flail on the water , the head will go up and the eyes are going to look up to the sky. More often than not, they're not going to call out and scream out for help because they're more trying to maintain their air supply. Fortunately, our bodies have a lot of built in mechanisms to kind of help us get our airway up. But at the same time , it does also prevent calling for help. So, a lot of it is that loss of poured forward is not being horizontal anymore in the water being warm in that vertical and looking rather than that controlled treading where everything is more placid. The arms are going to start to flail a little bit and their eyes will get glassy and a little bit almost glaze over. So, it's a lot of it is. I know when I'm life gardening, whenever I see a swimmer that has been fairly horizontal, start to go more in that vertical position and not having any use of their legs or their legs are just kind of stopped helping them. That's when I know those are the ones I keep my eyes out on the most and making sure that they're not going to get too tired. And then if I have to, I know, like with one of the little kids, I was teaching lessons more than a couple of times. I had to stick my tube in just so the kid could have a rest for a few seconds and then continue on because if we catch them in the distressed stage, not an issue. We just can take a few minutes rest or a few seconds rest and then continue on our merry way. But we start to get to the point where we start to swallow water and getting things into our lungs. It becomes much more difficult. And then we start to go into where we go unconscious and have some of the further health issues. So, each part of it is just watching that forward progression and that especially that tip off of the chin and the eyes and the head of looking and trying to maintain air at all costs.

Jen: Our bodies are amazing that it just automatically knows what to do. To like, say, hey, over here because I was like thinking about when you're saying lifeguards and things like that, you're trying to think of. I haven't been in the pool in the USU but the aquatic center. I mean, you're trying to see how many lifeguards in there one, three or four

Hilary: In one pool.

Jen: And I'm just thinking that is only eight pair of eyes. On how many children? So right now, moms and dads stay with your kids because there's only that many pair of eyes watching the kids.

Kathy: Yeah, and some will say if parents will know when their kids are in distress better than sometimes. That's true because a lot of play with kids at times can also look like a distressed seller because they're learning how to swim. Their farms not great. Most of the time, and they like to do bob up and down and have some of the fun play. So sometimes it will trick the lifeguard of, OK , they're so fine, they're playing around to where they're more in distress, where a parent will know right away they're in distress or and I know vice versa can also come into play to where Kevin Hart . One of his first job was the lifeguard, and you didn't last very long at it. You only did it for about a week. And one of the issues was because he's from Center City Philadelphia. People out there will let it will tell you your business very quickly and with a lot of curse words, and we'll have no guarantee to it. Because when they were playing head was bouncing up and down, he went and saved a kid. Mom comes in to him and starts chewing him out. We're like, why did you stop the play? Like why? He was fine. He was OK. But Kevin was trying to do what he was trying to do, and it's sometimes that hard balance of knowing better to be safe than sorry. So, I'm like, I was glad that Kevin went in, but it also that led him to get in the job for a week, and he still says that was the hardest job that he's done.

Hilary: I think that's important for parents to hear just that reminder that although there may be lifeguards there, he said, you know your child better than anybody else. You know, when it looks like they could be in distress and realistically, you should be in close proximity so that you're probably closer than the lifeguard is anyway, you should be able to intervene.

Jen: And what a great bonding activity. Swimming with your kids.

Kathy: Yeah, I know it was always fun with my dad. He was because my mom doesn't swim. My dad isn’t a great swimmer, but at the same time, just to play with him at hotels or sometimes in the country club when we're out in California is just like so much fun to be with dad and have him throw us in the water and like, have some of that fun play, especially when you were doing a lot of competitive swimming in between. So, like when I was in the water, that was fun time.

Hilary: So, I've seen some posts recently on social media about just suggestions for different colors of swimming suits using more bright colors. Do you see? Is that a helpful thing for lifeguards?

Kathy: Definitely. The brighter the neon suits, the easier it is to spot in the water. I know when I am, I'm very fortunate. I've always worked in collegiate pools, so I have been very spoiled for the most part , so I don't get a ton of glare at times. The only time and the only other time I've guarded that was not a collegiate pole is at Goldfish Swim School, so it was people teaching some lessons. The entire time in the pool was very shallow. So, I've always been in very, extremely favorable conditions that even than sunlight through the windows, will cause glare in the water and becomes a little bit harder to see to the bottom. And especially, there's some of the during the transitional times of when the Sun set, is that it's harder to see the bottom. So, like being in those bright swimsuits is actually very helpful versus being in a black swimsuit. Plus, if you're doing a lot of outdoor stuff, sometimes that black swimsuit is also going to absorb the heat more going to make you a little bit harder versus having somewhat some of the more reflective colors or having a bright white, well , bright white swimsuits don't tend to work well because then they go see through and nobody wants that.

Hilary: Ok, never buy a white swimsuit. But it's funny that I kind of gravitate towards black ones. And so, I think that's a great point to remember as adults, too. But the bright neon colors definitely make a difference.

Kathy: Yeah, they definitely do help with things, especially if you're going to be in a lake or anything. You definitely want to have the brighter colors because those waters tend to be muddier and murkier, and harder to see into the bottom. So, if you can't see into the bottom, it's problematic. You know you really shouldn't have anybody around if you can't see the bottom of the area, or you want to make sure that you can reach them within about two minutes of swimming. Sorry, a minute and a half is swimming and then being able to get them out and get them into first aide care within about two and a half within two to two and a half minutes, that's going to save their life much. They can prevent any long-term damage. So, the brighter the swimsuit, the easier this kind of spot and kind of have that capability to see what it is versus some of the more muted colors or the solid well solid brights tend to work well, but the that sometimes the black like one of my favorite ones, is the solid navy can be hard

Hilary: Yes, can make you hide in the water? So, you talk about kind of the legs and the murkiness of baby being in in these sorts of bodies of water. Any other additional tips for when you are in a lake?

Kathy: I would say in a lake

Hilary: Or even in the ocean, I guess, well, too

Kathy: Oceans, we always want to make sure that we are in an area that is patrolled by lifeguards and that we are watching the tide in the red. It's easy for capable swimmers to be pulled out because of the tide coming out, and you have to kick faster than what the waves are doing. So being able to make sure that we stay within the flags or the patrolled zone, being able to be where if it's super murky. Don't go in the water. One, there is. If it's super murky, that could be a sign that the weather is not ready to turn. And that's not a great. So, we don't want to be out in a storm because lightning just amplifies your chances of electrocution and even at an indoor pole, will close down for lightning storms just because our pipes may or may not be fully grounded and we don't want to risk it with people. So, we close down our locker, our showers and our pool during lightning storms just because we have an older facility. But like a lot of times, when a storm is coming in, sediment starts to get kicked up in the in the water. So that could be a sign that some of the weather could be turning. But even if it is also really murky, too, there's often a lot of life in it that is not healthy for us, especially for babies to be exposed to where there's the amoebas. There's a lot of poop in freshwater and dead things in the fresh water. So, it's I personally, I only want to be in chlorinated water. Because I know that water is treated and it's healthy. And for them, even though they're there is crypto is like one of the few diseases that can survive chlorine. Chlorine will kill most viruses and bacteria. So, it's the chlorinated water is a much safer water and it's water. I tend to be very much more comfortable in versus freshwater because like, you just don't know what the water quality is and also making sure that you do , you do the checks about the water quality of making sure that because I know the government agencies and I would state is a little bit different, and it's me being a little bit newer to Utah, not knowing the exact one off the top of my head. But I know I know in Ohio it was our wildlife and recreation that would control would do water checks every so often. Then they'll tell you when Lake Erie had too much red algae, too many or some of the so big you sure that you do check those readings beforehand of making sure that and try not to go and do some of the unregulated lakes and rivers just because you just don't know if that water is going to be safe and it's not filtered when you're in the fresh air of water.

Hilary: We have a few lakes here in Utah that are notorious for being shut down about mid-summer because of those reasons. So, we know. And yet you still see people in them. I mean, it doesn't necessarily stop them from being in there. But yes, we do have some of those. I just have some those.

Kathy: And that's why every year we also get the reports that somebody has a breeding amoeba from somewhere because you're in water, that there shouldn't be in. And I know even sometimes the water that is safe to be on, it's still not always great water because like the school in Philadelphia is where all of the house right goes off of and holds a lot of regattas. And like that, water is murky and like I don’t want to swim it. A lot of the boating population will grow and boat in it, and I know I was helping out at the Dad Vail Regatta. My phone dropped in the water and it never held battery again. And I know, you know, even though I was having problems with my mom, like over half the time my phone hung up on her. It was not me! It was just because that water just killed the phone. And it's not just like, yes, water or electronics don't go too well together in the first place, but add on a lot of the parasites and different wildlife that really make sure that the electronics don't work well.

Hilary: Well, I'm thinking of an experience I had with my son, so my son , who was 12, who is a competitive swimmer. We went to California back in January and we were on a beach that was being patrolled. But we did not pay attention to the flags, and we ended up getting in a riptide. And it was always interesting to me because when I would hear stories of adults, grown adults that had drowned, I always thought to myself, how does that happen? You know, and adults should be able to make their way back to their shore. They should be able to get on their back and float their way back. And it was amazing being caught in that. To, I mean a teenager and an adult who are both very capable swimmers. I it was such an aha moment to me because when we were caught in there and I knew what it was and I knew what I had to do, but still in my head, I remember thinking this is how it happened for a lot of people. People that are still experienced swimmers but get caught in these situations because it was hard to get out.

Kathy: It's so hard to get out of a rip and that's where and knowing where it is safe. And just because it's safe, one moment doesn't mean that it's going to continue to be. And there's I know when Ray Emory passed away from drowning, he's a goalie that used to play for the Philadelphia Flyers, and he drowned. And one of the first things was going, OK , what were the conditions in the water when it happened? So, well, it could be alcohol. This could be drugs. But I hope this is not for Ray because he's like recently retired and like first thing is like, OK, how cold was the water? Like, where was this woman me like trying to look some of that stuff up, and it did enough that alcohol did play a huge role and he got caught in a vine or something underneath in the pier, in the Dock as well. So, like add alcohol with natural obstructions like that's never a good mix are never a good mix. Just like that water underneath 60 degrees. That's how we like a lot of experienced people who are swimmers or even just strong people in general can have a lot of issues because your muscles are just automatically going to seize up in that cold water. And we don't really think of 60 degrees as being cold, but you really don't want is like in the water. It's one degree makes a huge difference. And that's where I know where we try to teach her some lessons between 86 and 87 degrees, where it's kind of like bathtub water. We have one pool and then our competitive, more competitive pool where our lap swims happens. And we keep that pool about 80 degrees. And the kids hate it.

Hilary: It's a big difference.

Kathy: It's a huge difference. Is this cold going into our head of the did to go into our dive tank to learn how to do dive safely and being able to just start to do some of those head first centuries of being in that larger depth for it.

Hilary: So, we just swim at our local high school pool that you can always tell when it's going to competition season because you can tell that it is colder during that period of time. You get in and you're like, darn it! It started! Yeah. Well, Kathy, I think you shared so many wonderful tips for us, just as we kind of close up any last final thoughts that you would share.

Kathy: I would say just make sure that it isn't just a seasonal thing. Maintain the swim lessons and maintain that it's a public safety thing that is about being safe around the water, knowing how to be OK with us where we don't want it to be that big, frightening thing that because drownings are , for the most part, pretty preventable. So, it's something and just being aware and just doing a little extra homework when going out to some of the pressure bodies of water of knowing is the water safe? Is that area beach open? If it's not open, don't go. And then just watching out for the flags and watching out and just looking at the tides, you are just making sure that doesn't. That's not starting to shift because sometimes it does take lifeguards a little bit longer to set it up, even with the best intentions. I will watch it because the environmental conditions can change very quickly and just also being aware that. When it's thundering and lightning out, you don't want to go in the water like it's even though even with indoor pools, there is still that risk of electrocution is much, much, much lower in an indoor pool, especially if it's an outdoor pool. And you hear or see thunder, do not swim for 30 minutes, that it is a safety thing that you don't want to be electrocuted.

Jen: Well, thank you so much for coming in today. We appreciate all this great information that can help our listeners with their kids. And swimming, because it is a super important, it is super important information that we need to pass on. Thank you. And I thank our listeners for coming this. We hope you have a great week.

Thank you for listening to the Parents Place podcast. If you would like to reach us, you can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org, or you can reach Jenn on Facebook. Jen Daly – The Family Place, please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is TheFamilyPlaceUtah.org if you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes. We'd love to see you there.

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