We all know that growing up is not the easiest things. Unfortunately, there are many kids that deal with being bullied. In this episode, we have received a question from a parent about how to help their child when their child is being bullied at school. While this has been a hot topic for years now, there still seems to be a lot of uncertainty when it happens in your own life. Listen in for some tips on how to navigate this hard part of life.
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: The welcome to the Parents Place Podcast, so we have a ask away question from a listener out there and this is a great question because I feel like this is a question that many of you can probably relate to and not only for your children, but maybe experiences that you have growing up as well too. So the question is, how do I support my child who feels like they a re being bullied at school? That's always a hard one to answer I know.
Jen: Why can’t we all just be kind
Hilary: I think it's so hard because like I said, I think it's something that's close to many of us because. I mean, I would assume that if you go through your entire schooling career as a child, preteen, teen. And never have this experience. You are probably a rare gem because I think most everyone to some degree, probably experiences some form of bullying throughout their childhood, and it's never easy.
Jen: Yeah never
Hilary: And like you said, sometimes we just want to wring each other necks and say just be nice. Like why do we have to act the way we do sometimes
Jen: Because none of them have their pre frontal cortex. And they don't know how to do it properly
Hilary: And we could talk about that today. So. So let's start because I think I think one of the things that's a little tricky with the concept of bullying to begin with is that it is one of those words that gets thrown. Around quite often and I think.
Jen: And I think understanding the difference between bullying and just kids not being nice for the day or whatnot exactly cause bullying is consistent every day happening all the time.
Hilary: Yeah, yeah.
Jen: And there's going to be days when kids just aren't nice to each other. I mean, it doesn't excuse it, but. There is a difference.
Hilary: And I do. I think the term bullying has become a term that we use so widely nowadays. That we are that it now is to the point where it's I think I think we have this stage where we didn't address bullying and then we almost overdid it. Put it on a pedestal. Not on a pedestal. That's not the right way to say it. But anyway, yes, we spent too much of our time consumed having this discussion that I think we then overused the term bullying and labeled every, you know, misbehavior. Whether they were big or small as bullying and now I think we're trying to pull back from that again to an extent, but I still think oftentimes, kids have a misconception as to what true bullying is. So yeah, I think that that's important to understand because. Kids are kids and kids say dumb things and kids don't always necessarily know what is appropriate socially so.
Jen: And they don't. Think about consequences all the time.
Hilary: No.
Jen: Especially when they're at that 10 and younger.
Hilary: Yeah.
Jen: Because they don't think outside of the box.
Hilary: Yeah.
Jen: They don’t see outside of themselves.
Hilary: It's true. I remember. So, you guys know that I have spoke about my daughter on this podcast quite a bit. But I remember when she first received her hearing aids and that was one thing I really worried about with her, worried about kids bullying her kids, saying mean things. And so we sat down, you know, her and I. And we also sat down as a family together, but one of the things that I talked to her about is I talked to her about was how to respond when kids said things, but one of the things that I that I remember saying to her is I remember saying sweetie. There's going to be kids that probably are going to ask you. Lots of questions. And keep in mind that questions are not mean. You know for a lot of kids, this is probably the first time they've seen someone with hearing aids before.
Jen: Yeah. Especially child.
Hilary: Exactly. And so I said for them to come up to you and to ask you about it and to maybe stare at it, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're being mean. They are being curious. And I said you could take those questions. And you don't need to. You know, it doesn't need to cause offense, but it's more of let me provide some education. You know? And so I think so often. You know, kids, there's a blurred line between. Like you said, kids, kids being curious, kids being kids, versus kids saying mean things. And I even remember. She had an experience early on where one of her classmates noticed that she had hearing aids and he got right up to her face. Like centimeters up to her face and says. You're wearing hearing aids and then very loudly yells. Can you hear me? And she looked at him. With this look of come on buddy. What are you doing here? But her response was. I'm wearing hearing aids. Of course I can hear you. But you know, she could have taken that and been real offended and been real hurt by this child yelling in her face, you know, taking it as somebody that's being mean to me when it's really just a kid that doesn't have a knowledge base about that yet.
Jen: Ohh sure. What was I watching last night when I couldn't sleep. Oh, it was it had to have been a TikTok or something, but it was a talk. This she was a doctor or something and she was talking about how in kindergarten we're so focused on. The academic that we forget about the social and this is what happens with kids nowadays is they don't have those social skills, that emotional intelligence to be able to go up. And talk to her nicely about her hearing aids.
Hilary: Yeah exactly, to be like, will you help me to understand what that is in your ear and how does that work? I mean, kids don't communicate in that way. We, as grownups can articulate our words and can create questions that sound more like that. But kids are like, huh, what's that thing? Why are you wearing that? You know? And so it can come across the sounding harsh, when really it's that's not the that's not the intention and I think you bring up a good point as well when you talk about this social, emotional intelligence that I think so often kids just say it like it is. You know, they look at you and they're. Like you're tall, you're short. You're big, you're small.
Jen: It's not. It's not like how can I say this in a nice way?
Hilary: Exactly. Yeah. And they don't mean it to cause harm. No, they just it to them, the world is very black and white. And so they see something and they say it. And so I think again and I think you know. That is normal developmental behavior. So, I think that's probably the first thing that we want to understand is that when kids say those things, it's not. They're not doing that to cause offense, but also I think as parents, we can help to train right on both ends, you know.
Jen: Because I think your daughter responded in a way because you sat down with her prayer and you know, kind of prepped her.
Hilary: Yeah, you know, but if we also see our kids making those types of comments, you might want to pull them aside and be like, OK, sweetie, when you see someone and you see some of their physical appearance. We don't necessarily. Say out loud that that person is short. I think they know that they're short and there's nothing wrong with being short.
Jen: Or they're wearing glasses.
Hilary: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So, I think sometimes kids just don't necessarily, they haven't necessarily developed those social cues yet to understand.
Jen: They don't have a filter yet.
Hilary: Yeah, what is OK and what's not, OK to say. And I think that comes across to sounding mean and then oftentimes is put in that bullying category unfortunately.
Jen: Yeah.
Hilary: Like another thing that we maybe need to do a little bit more, more coaching on as parents and we used to talk about this in some of our children's educational programs. But just this difference between teasing versus bullying. Because I think that that that also their varying degrees of teasing. You know you can have this kind of childlike teasing that I think we all engage in with our friends or with siblings. And then you can have teasing that. It can make you know it starts to become starts to enter that gray area where that teasing could become potentially harmful, which I think often times that teasing leads to bullying or can lead to bullying. But I think there's a lot of that friendly teasing that occurs between people that often get lumped into that bullying category as well too.
Jen: And especially when kids are starting to figure out sarcasm.
Hilary: Yes, right.
Jen: And they're horrible at it, but they're trying to figure it out.
Hilary: Exactly right. I mean, I look at my two. So my oldest who is 14 and then my third child who just turned 9, here's their nicknames for each other. And they have a great relationship those two. But my middle schooler refers to my daughter as “Poo-poo baby”. And so in return, she calls him “diarrhea baby”. And those are their nicknames for one another. And she will walk in the door from school and he will say, hey, poo poo baby and she will respond back with a. Hey, diarrhea baby. And I hear those terms about 10 times every single day.
Jen: Those are your children, Hilary.
Hilary: Those terms of endearment, right. You know, I think anyone else that enters our house is going to look at each other like, what did they just call each other? Is that OK? How come you're not stopping that?
Jen: Oh, my heavens. My husband still does it. My family has that little banter that is just unique to your family. Of talking about inappropriate things at the dinner table. Yeah, like bathroom talk or whatever, and he's just, like, stop that, Jen. And I'm like. This is just how we talk to each other and so I think. There's there is that and friends have that as well.
Hilary: Exactly. And I think you bring up a good point that many of us grow up in homes with that type of a setting where we have that fun, teasing banter back and forth. But then there are some that don't grow up in those homes. And so, you have those kids that become friends and that have these conversations. And so, you know, you can see how that could be seen as hurtful if you don't grow up in that home setting where you do have that banter back and forth like many of us do. And so I think, you know, when those things happen I, you know, like you said coaching our kids and saying, hey, I don't think that person meant to hurt you by saying that. I don't think they meant to cause you harm by using that name. That's just a nickname they use. And you know, it's probably you're their friend. You're close enough to them that they have a nickname for you, you know? And so I think helping kids recognize that there is a difference between that friendly teasing that occurs between all of us and malicious bullying behavior. So however I do think that it's powerful to help kids to understand that. That although we do engage in a lot of teasing as individuals, teasing definitely can go too far as well too.
Jen: Absolutely.
Hilary: So, you know, I think part of that coaching can also be helping kids to understand. Now if you do have a friend that maybe has a name for you, has a nickname, has a label for you, you don't necessarily appreciate. It's OK to let that person know. Hey, I don't really like when you call me that. Can you stop doing that? Because. You know, I think one thing that we want to continue to always teach our kids, regardless of the situation is that they have the right and the power to speak up for themselves so.
Jen: Absolutely. I think on the flip side though, also was parents. Helping our children understand maybe those social cues or body language when you do use something that is teasing and watching, how do you think they felt when you said that. You know, did they look like they thought it was funny? Did they, you know, laugh along with you? Or did they? Kind of close their eyes and kind of get sad, you know. And so, teaching kids to recognize those body cues and body language so that they can say oh. Maybe that wasn't the greatest thing to say, and I can apologize, but it's on us as parents to do that because they don't have that really anymore in schools to where you're figuring and learning that out.
Hilary: Yeah. So that's going to take us as role models to say, hey, when you said that to your sister, did you notice how she put her head down? That might be a sign to you to help her to help you to understand that that word came across as being harsh. And so I like that a lot of that's going to have to occur in our own homes.
Jen: Yeah, and I always am a fan of books. And when you're reading your kids books saying. How do you think that character felt when this was going on? I mean, there's a lot of teaching moments instead of just reading a book.
Hilary: Hmm. That's true that reading children's books to kids opens up the door to, I think, conversations that would be hard to have otherwise. It's a easy, comfortable way to start that conversation with kids. So I appreciate that.
Jen: I don't want to discount bullying. Because there is that out there.
Hilary: Yes, yes.
Jen: And but again, I bullying is a consistent thing that is happening day after day after day. And it may increase in verbal or it may be physical but it is on that consistent basis. And that's when. It's not OK, it's just there's no way of saying this is OK. It's not.
Hilary: And you know, I think that. Like I said, I think that we as a society are starting to recognize the effects of bullying. And so I think a lot of schools have implemented their own bullying plans and are doing, I think, for the most part a great job of educating our students about, you know, the steps that they need to take if they see it not only not only if it's happening to them, but also if they see it occurring. I know that that is a big push that we've had just recently in society is this idea of the bystander right? You know that when it happens, what are we doing as those that are just watching? Are we allowing that to happen? Are we stepping away from the situation? Are we getting help? What that can look like for us. So I do think that could probably want to be one of the first steps that parents may want to take. If they do find that their child. As a bully, particularly in school setting. Is to maybe go to that school personnel and say, OK, what's the bully policy here? What does that look like and what are our kids being trained to do in this particular school setting? Because I think anytime we can support the school system and we can back up what the kids have already been taught, they're in the school, the better off we're going to be.
Jen: No reason to reinvent the wheel, yeah.
Hilary: And I'm assuming making the assumption, at least I know for my children's schooling, that that's stuff that they probably learned early on in the school year. So that then the parents, pardon me, that teachers can reinforce it when they when they notice it.
Jen: I remember doing a presentation in the middle schools and we I had taken it because they were having a problem with bullying. And I took them a story about a boy that, you know, didn't have the best hygiene. His jeans were too short. He came to school late, and all of these things, and I had the kids close their eyes. And then I said, now what happens if that was you? How would you feel? And I said so. Let's think about this boy who has all of these issues. What happens if his parents don't have enough money to wash his clothes every day? What happens if he, you know, they don't have the money to buy the shampoo or whatever, all the time, and you could just see those kids going. Never thought of it that way. And so I think sometimes helping kids understand. And that not all homes are the same. That some people have different circumstances. That they have to live with, and sometimes it is. You know, they may have nine kids and they're just passing down jeans and this is what they can afford because they have nine children. And in helping them realize that I think kids, those kids, hopefully they went away from that day. I think in that moment at least it was like. Oooooh
Hilary: There is more to this picture than I realized, right, you know, and it's like we've mentioned already. The thing with kids is that especially as they get to that stage of life, they're so egocentric, you know, like everything is about me and the world revolves around me, and that's what I am thinking about at all times. And so to step out of their world. And to be able to empathize with somebody else, right, and to connect with somebody else on a different level. I mean, that's a different social skill in and of itself, but I think even if we had if we have that, if we practice that skill and that skill only, I think that would not necessarily stop. But I think that would decrease building by. Huge extent. If kids have that ability.
Jen: Because you can also, go along the other side of the bully. And stop and think, oh, what happens if this is how he was treated? He's treated at home. This is the way he's learned to interact with people. And so, I say he, but it can. Be a he or a she. And so letting them see both sides, because those kids who are bullies have to learn it from someone they don't just come up with this on their own. They've learned that this is the way they interact with friends or people that are different from them and. I mean, again, not an excuse. It's not OK. Yeah, but that's when we have a lot of teaching to do.
Hilary: And you know, I think the tricky thing with bullying. And obviously, as parents, we are going to have to take this situation by situation, case by case, but I think. Depending on the severity level. I think we want to empower our kids and I think we want to give them opportunities to resolve that problem on their own. Before we step in and intervene, depending on the situation like I said, but I think. You know not getting along with Someone Like You said it's one of those skills that's not going to go away with graduate. You know, you're going to enter a workforce where you're not going to get along with people and you're going to have neighbors that you don't necessarily love and you're going to, you know, throughout your entire life, you're going to have people that you're going to clash with and so I think if this is just your. Kids being kids, kids, kids doing some teasing, kids doing some bugging and trying to get a reaction out of the person that they're sitting next to. Let's, let's empower our kids by saying, OK, let's come up with some solutions on how you could deal with this problem. And then I want you to work on that for the next day or two and. And see if that resolves itself and come back and tell me how it goes because I think that should be our first step. If it is some of this. Stage 1, if you will, type bullying.
Jen: Yeah, yeah. It allows them to have successes and fill that empowerment of I can do this the next time it happens. It allows them to take responsibility for them, which we want them to do. I mean, that's what we're doing is raising children to become responsible adults.
Hilary: You know and to be honest with you all, sometimes I think what we see when it comes to targets for bullying, as we tend to see kids that are much more introverted. Have a much harder time speaking up for themselves. And so, I think if you can teach that skill of assertiveness to kids that you can speak up, somebody says something you don't like, you let them know that that's not OK. You let them know that they need to stop you. Let them know that that word was hurtful. And so, I think, you know, maybe start with that. Like, let's teach you how to be super assertive and let's teach you how to resolve some of these basic conflicts. In hopes to maybe avoid some of those bigger conflicts. Now, don't get me wrong. Like I said, if you are in the middle of a situation and maybe your child's safety is at risk.
Jen: Absolutely, emotional or physical.
Hilary: Yeah, I definitely think it's appropriate to intervene at that point. But I do also think that you still want to allow your. Your child to take the rings there, you know. Say your child. Hey, I know that you've been having a particular problem with a particular student, and I know you've tried to resolve it on your own, and I appreciate that. But you know, to be honest, sometimes in life, we even we as adults, have problems that. Are too good for. Us to handle that, we might need some additional support with and so you know, maybe turning the reins back to them and say. You know, would it be OK if I spoke with some of the school personnel about this? Would you like to be there? When I speak with them about this? Because we want you to come up with some options and to brainstorm. So I I want them to feel very much in the loop for what this plan is going to look like because again, I think that the more they are involved. The more empowered, they're going to fill through this process.
Jen: I think. I agree with everything and I, but I also think of the side of the bully. I think we as parents, if we do have a child that is bullying, we need to take that seriously and not just knock it off as kids are being kids. But taking it seriously, listening to our school personnel listening to those things and really taking and putting something in action to change those behaviors because I just think that's where it gets out of control is when that bullying parent does not take it seriously.
Hilary: And I get it. It's really easy for parents too. You know, get, you know, it's our natural reaction as parents to defend our child. Right. And we want to think the best of our child. So oftentimes the first reaction is to say not mine, right. That would. That can't be the case.
Jen: My child would never do that.
Hilary: There's and, and usually, to be honest, they're usually. Are two sides to every story. And so I think that is a healthy approach is to listen to both sides of those stories because you may find that there are things happening on both ends, who knows? But I do. I also think that. But as parents, we need to be open enough and understanding enough to recognize that there may be some fault on my child and as a parent, my job so not only support them. But to educate them on when things need to be done differently.
Jen: I just watched the documentary and that this is an extreme case. But it was the parents not listening to the schools and not putting into action what was suggested. And then it ended up being a school shooting. But then they were charged themselves as parents because they provided all of this stuff, but then didn't do all of the helping of that child and so I think. We just both sides, we just need to teach, for crying out loud.
Hilary: Well, that's just. It I feel like the common like trend here the common thing that we're getting across is that we need to do a lot of practicing in our own home. We need to do a lot of practicing on what you know, like what is and is not OK to say how to respond in these different scenarios. If you have hurt somebody's feeling, how do you fix that? How do you make amends for that? And so I feel like a lot of things.
Jen: Well a lot of them have siblings that they can practice with
Hilary: Exactly. A lot of this goes back to what can we do in our own home here, right to raise, capable, competent, like you said socially aware children and you know the thing with bullying I think oftentimes and this is where it makes this such a hard situation is that. I think you know we wish that there is one way to resolve a bullying problem. But there's not necessarily, it's. Going to be a case by case, like I said, case by case scenario. Also sometimes it might. Be as simple as ignoring that and when the bully doesn't, you know, when you're not feeding into that, that, that bully, then then it might resolve the problem. Maybe it just means avoiding that person. Maybe that means, you know, staying away from situations where you may be isolating yourself, maybe that means speaking up for yourself. There's lots of different bullying tips and tactics that parents can use, but.
Jen: Make sure you play with other kids on the playground and if you don't have that, go hang out with there's always a teacher and or hang out by other kids.
Hilary: Exactly. Uh-huh. Yes. And so I think that's the tricky thing with bullying behavior is that there's not a one size fits all. Yeah. You know, answer to every problem. And I think that's why it's so important that you sit down with that school personnel to say. Hey, do they have the ability to, you know, do this or this or this instead, because they might be able to provide you with some different options that you wouldn't have otherwise thought
Jen: So I think that's. I don't know, at least for us here at the Family Place. That's one thing that I will always kind of fight for is those social emotional skills classes, so look in your area and see if there is somewhere that is doing social emotional skills to help you. If you don't know how to teach them, go out and find somewhere that is there's lots of places that are teaching those skills. Identifying feelings, I mean, especially now with a lot more places being trauma informed and all of that, there's lots of options out there to help you teach your kids social emotional skills. Well, I want to thank you all for coming and listening today. I hope this has helped you remember, just to take those moments. Of those teachable moments, be it watching television or reading books or with their siblings, there's lots of those teachable moments. I want to remind you to be kind and patient with yourself and we will see you next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place Podcast, if you would. Like to reach us, you can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly - The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is thefamilyplaceutah.org if you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes. We'd love to see you there.
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