Being a parent is a big job and often times we don't realize how hard it might be to let them grow and live their own lives. Sydney is here and has a great story about watching two of children grow up and come out as being members of the LGBTQ+. She talks about what was hard, what she wishes she did better, and what she did well, as well as what young LGBTQ+ adults want parents to know. Sydney focuses on how love is the center of our growth in accepting others and ourselves.
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. We have a special guest with us today for our story of resilience. This is it, and we've already had a chance to chat with her a little bit before we started recording. And I'll tell you, you're in for a treat because she is the sweetest, funniest lady. And so, we're so excited that she gets to share and her lessons that she's learned through her life with her particular experience. So, I’m just going to turn it over to you and tell us a little bit about you.
Sydney: OK, thank you. I'm excited to be here it's a good experience for me to go back through. I guess the last several years and get a little bit of a timeline down and rethink through a lot of things that have happened. I am originally from Tucson, AZ and came to Utah back in the early 80s to get my masters at Utah State University, I'm the only import in my husband's family. I think all the rest may be from the actual Cache Valley. So and met my husband, didn't finish my masters degree, but I figured 1 degree was enough and got married and we've raised a family. We have six kids. I have 5 boys and one daughter. And we love living in Cache Valley and they've really had a wonderful time and we are really blessed to have most of our children near us. We have a son that lives in Corinne with his wife and two daughters and our other sons live in Cache Valley and our daughter has been living in Hawaii but is getting ready to move back to the mainland and in Flagstaff, so that is exciting other than I will miss visiting, yes.
Hilary: Like, is that exciting for her to have to live away from Hawaii?
Sydney: Yeah, Yeah. It's good timing and she’ll probably move back there, but so I guess my experience with the LGBTQ community began, let's see, maybe about like 3 1/2 years ago or so. Our youngest son, who is graduating from Utah State this year, so yay for him. But our youngest son Derek got home from a mission that he served for our church in December of 2020. And I guess funny side note, years ago I had a religion teacher years ago like in the 80s, early 80s, had a religion teacher that said, well, the second coming is coming in 2020 because that's clear vision. And I always thought that was really funny. Right. And now as I look back to 2020, it definitely was a time when I got to know these my two youngest children in a more clear way. And so. So it really was a year of clear.
Hilary: Hmm. So he was right to a degree yes in some ways.
Sydney: In some ways. But Derek got home from his mission at the beginning of December and towards the end of December we were on a drive one night and he said to me, mom, I have same sex attraction and that's what he called it at that time. And I have a cousin who's gay and had a partner. And who we loved that I, you know, saw often as an adult. But I really haven't had any experience I suppose with an LGBTQ community at all. Definitely not on a close basis. And so I don't know that I really thought much one way or the other, because at that point he was still figuring out a lot. And but for me that set me into I want to learn about this right. And so I got into reading lots of books or listening to them and listening to lots of podcasts and really tried to learn as much as I could about. You know an experience of being gay talked with Derek. It's interesting because his experience, his remember his memory for a bit was that that I really didn't talk much with him, but it was important to me to not make everything I said to him about him being gay because I think that's part of him. But he's a normal person too, so there's lots of other good things to talk about. And so we did talk. You know, we're really close and have a lot of fun discussions and so. But and if we back up a little bit from that, so just a few months before that, my daughter, who's my fifth child, so just a couple years up from Derek. Came to me in September and said, Mom, I'm really having questions about our church and about religion. And she had been you know, we're sort of that type of normal Utah family all in our religion all six of my children serve missions for our religion and for our church and that was just our family culture right but she came to me and she says I'm really having questions. And she had been for the whole year, so nine months. She comes to me when she, about nine months after she started questioning and. So I've sort of been working through that with her, which is, you know, some deep conversations and trying to understand where she's what, where she's coming from. And. And so I don't know if that was a little bit of a preparation, you know, to now work through different things with Derek. But, but he wasn't sure what that meant for him and his life at that time. But in any case, that was that. And then. Fast forward, I guess, almost two years later. So. So the kids are in school or a lot of our kids went to Utah State. Kennedy went to Utah States. And she, fun fact, she had been on a study abroad in Australia when the pandemic hit, and of course had to come home, and that was a little discouraging because she's only been there a month, was hoping to be there four months. And so her the last semester of her senior year, she decided to take online classes, finish out her degree from Hawaii.
So, she moved to Hawaii and lived there and took online classes, came home to graduate, went back for the summer, and then moved home to build out a van to ship to Hawaii to live. Every mother's dream to have your daughter living out of a van she built herself. But actually building the van, building out the van was really fun because I love that kind of project too. And she would learn how to build cabinets on YouTube and then go do it. It was quite amazing. And so she so. At the end of February. She shipped her van there and well, Kennedy and I went to California to ship the van. And then Sid and I, my husband, is also named Sid. So we're Sid and Syd. So Sid and I went to Hawaii. We had gone there on our honeymoon years earlier and so we went and got an Airbnb and we're there when the van arrived and were able to see her get it set up and everything. And that was really exciting. And so. She had been living there, right. She'd been in sort of off campus, if you will, student housing in Laie with a bunch of girls and have lots of good friends in any case. so. So here, we are in September of 2020, right she's been in Hawaii quite a bit. Uh, living there for a while, but definitely in the van. Since February. We get it was a Sunday evening and I was on the phone with my friend and said you're going to want to look at this because she sent us a message and I wrote it that I mean I copied it out because I thought it's just good to go back and look at this. She says “Hi, Mom and Dad. I hope you all had a fun Sunday. I'm super excited and very nervous to share a big life update that I've been wanting to tell. You for a while. And something you might have already picked up on. I'm dating someone and her name is Kelsey. A little over a year ago, I came to terms that I also liked girls. In addition to boys, I never imagined loving someone as much as I love her. I've been so nervous to tell you for obvious reasons, but I've been feeling more ready the last little bit. I wanted to come out to you through a text to give you a second to process, but I'd like to talk on the phone whenever you want or ready and can update you on the whole relationship.” And then, Kennedy said, “I know, I hope you know how much I love you both dating Kelsey has made me the happiest person. She makes me so excited for my entire future and is genuinely my favorite person ever, and I'm really excited for you all to get to know her better.” And we knew her. She was a friend. She'd been and stayed at our home and you know, we've known her as a friend and. Sid had said something to me earlier. You know, I don't know weeks before that, he thought they were closer than just friends, but I am really just a here and now person. I don't assume. I just take things at face value and it never occurred to me never occurred to me that they might be gay, you know, and never occurred to me that Kennedy and Kelsey. We're closer than just friends, and so because I was talking with my friend that took a while and so it was a couple of hours before we responded, which you can imagine could be a little a little scary. And so I finally, I responded and I said “Hello, Kennedy Lou, which really isn't her name, but it's the right calle her. I said don't fret over us not responding to your message. We love you always as you. As you know we do. Dad mentioned something about this a while ago. So yes, he had an idea. I didn't. You know me, I think take things at face value. I suppose. I'm pretty here and now person.” And then and then this was probably. This was hard as a mom to find out that Kennedy had been dating someone for nine months. No it was 14 months, a year and two months. And I didn't know about it and because she had stepped away from our church. Right. And that's very dear to me. Right. And we've had these deep discussions like we had had really strong, deep discussions about everything and hard questions. You know, how do you feel about this? Now, what do you think about this? What's your opinion about this? I felt like I'd been really affirming. I felt like I'd been in her corner. I felt like I tried to stay really close to her and it just sort of knocked me over and made me feel like the wind had been knocked out of me. And it I mean it's a shock to find out that your daughter is dating a woman, especially because she had had a boyfriend for I don't know, eight or nine months, who really wanted to marry her. But she broken that off, and so she's attracted to men and women. Right. And. And so that was a little bit of a shock, but it also really was like how have we had these deep discussions? And I felt like we were so close. And for 14 months you have been dating someone and the most important thing in your life. I have not been aware of. It really hurt. It was really hard and so I said that to her, though, I said I've got to get over feeling like I thought we were close and connecting and like I've been affirming. And accepting and then I found out this is huge part of you weren't sharing. And I said to her, I'll work through it and I'll be fine, but I need to sit with it for a bit. And then I said, my love for you hasn't changed. And I'm sorry you've been managing this without us knowing for so long. Let's talk tomorrow night because my husband had already fallen asleep to take his nap before he goes. And so I sent her a picture of her dad sleeping.
Hilary: Typical man.
Sydney: And actually, then she got back and says “Ohh I was getting a little worried with no response. But thank you, mom, she says. I really do love you, and there's many, many reasons. And we can talk about that. But she said there's many, many reasons as to why it took me so long to tell you .and then she said I'm happy to work through things” and she said even though I know you both love me, it's really scary. I've had a lot of things I've had to work through before I was ready to open up. But like anything that's hard to work through, I know we'll be OK with some time and she was excited to fill us in and we did FaceTime the next night when we both had some time. And this is the thing and this is how I know that it impacted me. I had anyway I had, I was going to Hawaii in two weeks and two days from when she told us this to camp with her in her van, which I was really excited about that is definitely the way to see Hawaii. And I just for a moment didn't even want to go. I wanted to cancel my flight. I just wanted to canceled the whole trip. It just. I just can't. It just was like just this huge deflating moment and. But I worked through that and I got through that within a few days. I was excited to go see her again and the timing of it was really good. I know she knew she needed to come out to me before I was going to be staying in this tiny van with her. And we were going to be camping together and I'm glad she did because when I went to Hawaii. I got to spend and she's Kennedy is very, very respectful and so is Derek. So, our children are very respectful of our beliefs that are different than their beliefs, right? But also just respectful of us as parents and I said, you know, there's just one thing I ask is, I do want to make sure I get enough alone time with you. Right. I want to spend time with Kelsey and, you know, and both of you together. But I want to have some individual time. And so even when I was over there, she was really good to check in with me. Hey, are you getting enough time with me Mom? You know, and which I really appreciate, but it was. So it was really great because we had all this time to really dive deep and to really. Talk with her and to learn about her feelings. I had an opportunity to go take Kelsey out for a smoothie or I think I got an acai bowl or something and Kennedy was a little frustrated that I wasn't going, I didn't let her come. I said no, this isn't about you. I want to hear Kelsey's story and get to know her. You know, without you around. And so, we went and did that. And so I got to spend time with the two of them. I got to spend time with Kelsey alone. I got to spend time with tons of time with Kennedy, and that really helped me. You know, sort of grasp everything. I feel like, I guess for me, one of the main things, you know that that I feel like is really important in everything in any kind of interpersonal relationship is proximity and being present and being there and. I like to be right with someone and to really understand them and so that really helped me have some time to really get to know that situation. It was a while longer Kennedy was visiting. You know, because I sort of missed 14 months, right? That she was visiting and I took her back to the airport and we started to go back to Hawaii and we started in Logan and the hour and a half drive to the airport, she started at the beginning of their relationship. And by the time we got to the airport. You were right to present, you know, to where I'd sort of come on board. And so it was really fun to hear all about how that went. Because part of that time was remote. You know, she really she wanted to make sure that that was going to be a relationship that really was solid and was going to continue before she sort of made it public. She knew that that my husband and I might have some things to say to her to try to discourage that kind of relation, you know, relationship with a woman. She didn't want that complication, and so there are lots of reasons and. It took me several months. It took me a while to get over the fact that I was kept in the dark for so long, but I did and I could see I as I talked with her and as I really thought about it, I could totally see why she did what she would have done. I probably would have done the same thing. So, I am very independent. And I have raised 6 very independent children. So, we shouldn't be surprised to me.
And it's interesting, I think one I don't know maybe one of your questions was, you know, what, has it been hard and a lot of people are like, oh, you know, it's going to be so hard. I think hard is relative, right and I guess also because I had a really rough upbringing and really hard childhood, most of my life seems really amazing, but yeah, I guess it's been maybe hard, but at the same time hard for me would be not having my children in my life, right. That would be hard. I can't imagine anything harder than that and. And so I tried to do the work that is needed to keep my kids in my life, right? One of the questions you asked those any lessons that I've learned? Yeah. You know, I think for me and I love education, I love. I actually was one of those weird people that enjoyed school. And I feel like being a learner and getting educated is really, really important in this space because it's, it can be really uncomfortable. And it's really unknown. Like I said, I didn't have a lot of experience. I think Kennedy had a different experience with my reactions than Derek did, probably because Derek had given me this almost two-year study time really where I'd been able to talk to Derek, he's got all these amazing friends I've been able to listen to all these podcasts, read all these books, and really have a feel for the community and for what a person in the LGBTQ community experiences. And so, when Kennedy came out, that part was. I already sort of had a foot in that part. So I think being a being educated and being a learner is really, really important. And like I said before, it was really important to me to make sure that everything I said to Derek wasn't about him being gay. Right. I just feel like that was important. So, I talked with Derek about his experience, but I tried not to make him my only source of information on everything. LGBTQ plus, because right and so I think that's it. It's also a really good thing for parents. If it's uncomfortable for you to talk with your child. You can listen to a podcast anonymously, right? You can read a book without anybody knowing you're reading it right? And I get on my bike and I put on my air pods and no one knows what I'm listening to. And I'm listening to podcasts and listen. The books and I can just hear I can get some broad experience in that space without having to talk to anybody face to face. Right now. I like talking to people face to face, but not everybody does. And that can be uncomfortable for some people. So that would be probably the best thing to me is to really become educated. Ask kids questions, but until that's comfortable, do it in a way that works for you.
The other thing that I think is really important is be ready to push through the uncomfortableness. Right. And that I guess is true in anything in relationships, right? I think so often. We're uncomfortable, so we don't say anything right. I mean, I watched my parents got divorced when I was 12 and their friends didn't know who to be friends with and they didn't know what to say. So they didn't say anything and they didn't and they lost all these friends. Both parents. Yeah, right. And you don't have to know the right thing to say. You just need to let someone know. Hey, I see you and. I feel for you. And I'm here for you. Right. And push through that uncomfortableness and I get that it's. Uncomfortable for people? For parents, there's a whole lot of change that happens, right you have this this vision for your child. Kennedy is our only daughter. You know, we have this vision for our daughter, had a vision for my son Derek. And then all of a sudden. Especially with Kennedy, because she came out when she'd been in a relationship, the same sex relationship for 14 months, Derek wasn't, you know, at that when he came out, he wasn't really sure what his life was going to look like. And so you sort of go with him on that one, and you're going to develop with him on that one but with Kennedys it was like, she's an adult. She's this is probably happening. And so it was all of a sudden, like, oh, wow, what? I thought my daughter's life was going to be is completely different now. And so you sort of have to be flexible. It's interesting because you talk about this being your resilience. Right. And so I looked at resilient and because I don't feel like I'm. I mean, I don't know. I guess I'm resilient. But to me, it's our LGBTQ kids that are resilient but part of it was. The. Like elasticity was used, you know a synonym was adaptability, pliability, flexibility. This lovely way to sort of bend in the wind without breaking. Right. And an antonym to it was rigidity, right? And I I've thought a lot about that. That changes is the constant. I think we learned that right with COVID and everything, but the only constant is change and so I guess my advice would be to get comfortable with change and be OK and figure do what you need to do to move on to that. My dad was a pretty violent alcoholic and, but when I was in college and he was 50, through lots of miracles, he ended up getting thrown into detox in AA care center and drink. Which he tried many, many, many times before that. This time at work. So I went to lots and lots of Alcoholics Anonymous meetings with him and got his pin. His 30 day pin on him and his 10 year. And he died when he was 61. So he was quite young. But he had 11 year sobriety. But I learned to love so many of the Alcoholics Anonymous sayings and the Serenity prayer. And so we've had a plaque. My kids have been raised with the Serenity prayer right to, you know, which is “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change, the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference”.
And to me, that's life. I believe very strongly that we were all given the ability to choose. That's a gift we have our free will and that's hard as a parent to realize that your children have as much free will as you do. I changed my religion in college and I my parents said, well, it's your life, do what you want with it. I don't know that I think that was the most kind thing to say. But you know, they weren't happy, but they knew I was an adult. But I think as much as I got to do what I wanted to do, my children get to do what they want to do to and everybody else gets to do what it because we get to design our life. That is our gift. And so, I think it's really important to recognize that. I think for me my only experience in the having children in the LGBTQ plus community is as adult children. So very different than parents that have younger children, because I had already had to painfully go through the transition of not being a mom of young children and learning that they are adults and I need to bite my tongue sometimes and I need to hold back. And so I'd already been made that transition right? They were already adults and I'd already had to go through having an adult child step away from my religion, from my, from the church they've been raised in right. And so those things I guess, prepared me little by little, right I believe very strongly in the golden rule. And loving others like you want to be loved and like we know our God loves us. And to me that that really means unconditional love.
There's a lot of sayings, if you will, related to homosexuality that are really painful. Like love the Sinner, hate the sin. Yeah. How does that feel? Like that's so painful to me. Right because. I don't know. There's just a lot of things that I think have been said over the years that. If we really look at it and dissect it can't be true, right? Because it's not loving others as God loves us and so that's just something that I have felt was really important is to really strive to love unconditionally.
For me, I'm really religious and that hasn't changed at all. I love God and I've had to work to just trust him for me and to just and also to leave judging to Jesus and I but I learned that as a young child you just don't know everybody's situation, so you're not in a position to judge and it's not your job anyway. So let it be let it and that just trying to love unconditionally and trusting God is enough to keep me busy. Cause I have a lot to work on It's interesting, you know, with the LGBTQ space. There's a lot of people that want to try to figure out why in the world is a person gay, right? And there's a lot written about it and there's podcasts and, you know, there's all kind of different things. And I do think that might be important for someone that is in the LGBTQ community. You know, some of the trans and is trying to figure out why in the world. Now is this true now is this? Or someone that's gay. I think that might be important for them. But for me, as a straight person, why in the world is that important? I don't think it has any relevance at all to me. Right. Because I'm just supposed to love and accept and try to support and why a person is doing a certain thing, anything that I don't agree with to me isn't really the part of the what I'm supposed to be trying to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing is trying to figure out how I get through how I not judge, how I try not to judge and try to love them conditionally. And so I think that's really important.
It can be scary and hard as a parent. My experience in getting to know my two children and their experiences and lots of their friends. I promise it's harder and scarier for them. Right. And it isn't about me and I think that's really important. It's like Kennedy said, you know, it was really, really scary, even though she knew we would still love her. Which I'm grateful. She knew that. But even knowing that. It's really, really scary. I think for these kids. And so I when I knew that I was going to share my thoughts with you all. I asked my children and I said OK, so I want to know, you know. What did I do that was good. And what did I do? It was old and bad and I have made lots of mistakes. They have lots of grace from love for me. And I don't. I've said things that now I wouldn't because it's a journey we change, we progress. And I've said things, you know, to Derek especially way back in the day, you know, three years ago that I wouldn't say today, I've progressed.
I've learned. Derek and I went to a North Star Conference couple years ago and then I took one of my straight sons to a gather conference last year and they're phenomenal. You're there with hundreds and hundreds of people in the LGBTQ community and. Even though my youngest, even though my 2 gay kids stepped away from my religion. It's how I see life. It's so integral part of me. So that's sort of where my space is, where I, it's comfortable to me and it's what I love. And so, I really have learned a lot in that space and gather is very much focused on worshipping you know Jesus and having more Jesus and I don't know that my kids would go with me. You know my 2 gay kids would go with me but I take sometimes my straight children. So, as I try as a mother to help teach anyway.
So, I asked Derek and Kennedy to be thinking about that and to share their thoughts with me. And then it occurred to me. They have all these amazing friends and their friends come to our house and I just love them. They're all college kids and they're just such good people and I just some of the kids that that Kennedy's grown up with, you know that. I just. I just respect them and I love them and I love having them come over. And so I thought I should ask them maybe what they think. And so I did this little survey, which was amazing and very telling. So, I have a techie son and I asked him to help me do an anonymous google survey you know, so that they could answer and not have their name attached to it. My children put their name on it because I wanted Kennedy and Derek to do that but and I got, I don't know, 19,18 responses and I asked them just a few questions, you know. You know, how old are you? What are you? How do you identify? You know? A little bit but, but when? You came out to your parents? What did they do that was helpful good and when you came out to your parents, if they did something that was hurtful, what was it? And then what advice do you have for parents of LGBTQ+ Kids. And I'm telling you what I have pages, paragraphs.
Jen: Oh wow.
Sydeny: I mean that is just one thing about. This community is they have so much grace and so much love and so much acceptance and really, if we think about it, you know, if you if I thought if we could think for a moment, if you had something so important to you and so integral to yourself to you. And your parents or your loved ones or whoever never wanted to talk about it. And never wanted to and even hear about it and didn't have questions about it and if the topic came up sort of skirted it and moved it on to a different topic. How does that feel? Right to me it would feel like you like I was so unseen. And that was this. These survey responses, these kids that just they texted me back because I texted out the lineage and they text back and say, oh, my gosh, said Syd, this is so great. I'd be so glad. Thank you for asking me. And they're so willing to tell their story and to share their thoughts and. I just think that's part of loving and building relationships, right? I don't know I that alone was. Just the response was just this real reminder that anybody we love and anyone we want to have a relationship with, we need to ask them questions. We need to know them. We need to see all of them and we need to love all of them. You know, so I have all these amazing advice, like, from LGBTQ kids. I was just like blown away by how, well, first of all, how part of some of their some of them had great experiences with their parents and others it was really sad, really hurtful. But they're progressing. But their advice is really thought out and well. And these are all college kids, you know, they're in school and some of them out of school. And they're good thinkers and. Umm they've had to struggle to be in the relationships. They're in more than most people, right? I've talked a lot. Sorry.
Jen: It’s great to hear. And I love listening to you because my husband's daughter came out when she was 12. And that was a big thing for, not necessarily his ex-wife, but for him and for me, she told me first. And just OK, still love ya? You know, we'll talk about this with your dad and she's like, keep it a secret from my dad. And I said you're here this weekend. We've got to talk to him. And it got to the point where like. I can't keep this and I finally sat her down and talked to her and said you. Know what your dad and I don't keep secrets. How do you feel about, I'll go with you. I'll be with you and just know your dad's going to love you no matter what. And he was just fine.
Sydney: That’s great
Jen: And so, I love hearing. Your story, your advice, I mean. It's just really helpful because there's been a lot of growing and learning on my part. Same religion trying to figure it out, and I finally asked her one day. I said, what do you need from me? You know where your dad and I stand with our religion. We love you. We support you. We want you to be in our lives. But what do you need from us? She's like, I just need you to be here if I marry a woman.
Sydney: Yeah.
Jen: I can do that that I can do and.
Sydney: Yeah.
Jen: That probably was the best thing I ever asked her. What do you need from me?
Sydney: Yeah, that's so good. And it's interesting because one of the pieces of advice from one of these kids was. We know how you feel about, you know, we know what you believe. In other words, you don't need to share that with us all the time. We know that. But what we need is to know that. You love us. Right. And you know, it's interesting a lot of it. Because I have, I have straight children too, and everybody's on their own journey to sort of get used to this idea that they're, you know, that their sister is marrying a woman and a lot. Some you hear people say why do we need pride fairs? You know, pride. Why do we need pride parade? Why do we need pride fair. Why do? We need to put pride flags and it it's so interesting because this poor this, this whole, not poor, but the whole LGBTQ plus community get so much negative messaging from everywhere they look, and so they do need to be told more often than you think they do that you love them. Right. And more affirming and more reminding and that's OK. Yeah, that's perfectly OK.
Jen: I think it's been hard for my husband just because she was 12, so he thought this will be a phase that she will go through. She's now 17 and she's graduating from school and planning to go to college. And she had she likes men and women as well, and she so she had a boyfriend for like 2 years. He broke up and has decided to transition into a female. And so, she's like, I want to be roommates with her. And now my husband is like. Now he understands that this is not a phase that she's going through, and I felt like I've always kind of tried to help him understand that. But it's this little baby and he had that idea of what her life would be like. And so now all of a sudden, he's having to come to terms with it again, just because she's moving on to this next phase in her life and he's OK. He. I mean, he'll do it. And it's just that part of learning and growing and.
Sydney: And everyone changes. Change is different. I guess being comfortable with change. Is different for everything, sure. Right. I've had a lot of change in my life. So by necessity, I've had to get used to change, right? And so I moved through change fairly easily. This has been harder for my husband, right? One of the things, and I don't know why this made me think of this, but. I'm trying to think one of my kids. One of the things that they said was. And I and some of the other kids advice was the same thing. Is that not talking about it, like if it's uncomfortable and so not asking questions, not talking about it was really hard and even one or more than that one said. I knew that that my parent wasn't happy. But they didn't say anything, but I almost wish they had just said they weren't happy with it, you know? I mean, it was this idea of this, this non, this silence, this non talking about it that was really, really hard for them. Even though they could maybe guess where their parent was coming from. You know, Derek, one of his advices was trust them. Listen to them, ask questions and respect their answers. And he says his main piece of advice for parents would be to have open communication with their LGBTQ+ children. Ask them what you can do as a parent, like you said. Ask them what you can do as a parent to best support them and respect their requests. If your child comes out to you but isn't ready to talk in depth about being LGBTQ. Plus, wait until they're ready. And I had someone else say that their parent, and not even a couple respondents that said their parent approached them. And they were good with it. And they, you know, it was, it was. The parent was affirming and probably felt like they were being affirming. But the kid was not ready to come out. And so it caught him off guard. And they just said if you have suspicions or think that your child might be gay or in the
LGBTQ community. Do other things like talk, you know, let them know that it's a safe place that talk positively about queer people, you know, put a pride flag up, wear a rainbow pen, do different things that send the message that it's safe to come out, but let them be on their own time frame. And I thought that was really good, he says. Be open and honest and communicate your love often. As well as the fact that you're trying. Even if you're not perfect. And that over and over and over from every one of these kids. Any amount of effort was just respected and loved so much. If they can see that you're trying. They're willing to be patient with us as we learn. Right. And the other, I don't know if this is the right time to mention this, but and I know this has happened in our home, but we need to be really cautious about what we say, right. There's already enough negative messaging everywhere else. But a child's home should be a safe place for them And hearing that I had several people that said, you know, that that comments their parents had said. As they grew up, negative comments about a gay person or about, you know, the someone in the LGBTQ+ community. Really didn't create a safe space for them. And that was hard or them. Umm. Let your kids know that they can come to you without pressuring them to come out. It this was and you mentioned that your stepdaughter was 12, kids often start figuring out their gender and sexuality far, far younger than you might think. An unkind comment. This is from a student, right? An unkind comment you make about someone can make a world of difference to that child that overhears. I still remember an offhand comment my mom made about a lesbian couple when I was around preteen years, so around 11:12. Right. I hadn't solidly figured out my identity by then, but I was still pretty sure I wasn't straight, and that one sentence made me panic. That if my mom knew who I was. She would hate me. Which, we know Mom wouldn't hate her child. Yeah, but that's the internal dialogue happening. Even though my mom has become a lot more understanding over the years, that memory comes back in vivid detail every time I think about coming out to her. She probably doesn't even remember it. But it stuck with me forever. The point is here, watch what you say around your kids. Even if you think they're too young or for it to matter, they're not.
Second, don't assume your kid is straight. Don't assume your kid is cis. cisgender. You know, even though statistically most people are, that doesn't mean that doesn't guarantee your kid is. Third preaching the idea of love without acceptance or hate this. And we talked about this one could potentially be fine with things like alcohol, drugs or addiction, but you can't separate a queer person from their identity. So and they go on to talk about the reason why in which we can imagine why it wouldn't be good to say that to a queer person. Stand up for queer people, especially in church settings. If someone says something bigoted and no one disagrees, there's some closeted queer person listening and all they hear is that they are not safe or wanted there. Right. I mean it. It's so deep.
My daughter's advice, which you'll be able to tell when I read this that she's going to go into Graduate School to be a mental health counselor. Because she's very well spoken here. Communicate and listen. If your kids old enough to come out to you, then they are old enough to have hard conversations with you. Be an active listener without thinking about how you're going to respond and if you need some time to process things after they come out to you, that is OK. Just say that in a loving way. Reassure them that you love them. Then her second piece of advice is learn. It's OK that you may have conflicting feelings at first about your kid being LGBTQ. Plus, I would argue that the majority of queer people have also had conflicting feelings and even internalized homophobia. Which is part of the reason why it always takes us, it often takes us so long to come out. But the thing that's not OK is for a parent to stay stagnant. And justice say, this is how it is, and I'm never going to change. There is a way to reconcile your religious beliefs, societal expectations, and even larger minor homophobia. The best way to do this is by learning. Time doesn't heal all things. Learning and growing does. Educate yourself. Read books, ask your kids questions, and become your kids biggest advocate. And then her third piece of advice is love, she said. I genuinely think you will never go wrong with just loving your kid. If a higher power gets upset at you for loving your child no matter what, then I don't know what to tell you. And I can't see any other reason that would justify not purely loving your kid love with no conditions, love with no expectations, love your kid for living their authentic life. Your kid is going to be gay regardless of you loving them, so you might as well just love them and have a good relationship with them, which is so true, right? Right. I mean. So much good advice here. I kept well, yeah.
Jen: Yeah, enough to write a book!
Sydney: Yeah. I was so grateful to hear back from all of these. Like I said, these wonderful kids that come to my home, a lot of them and others I see on campus, and I'm just so impressed with them and their depth and their ability to forgive, I suppose, and to love unconditionally. We can learn a lot. From the LGBTQ plus community and a lot of the advice came around loving. And showing and telling your children often and reassuring them. And respecting their privacy, there were several that said, don't tell other people without getting permission, right? Because their parents may be out of them when they were really, they weren't ready. Umm and making it clear that they're not going to be kicked out of the family. You know, and for me, my children really didn't change. They're still just their kids and someone else said this. Is that your kid didn't change? You just know more about them. You just more know them more authentically self.
Jen: Yeah. So that is a good thought. Put that on a T-shirt.
Hilary: Jen knows me. Jen knows me well. And she knows that. I don't think I've ever been in a position where I didn't have a question asked. And didn’t have something to say. I so I'm apprehensive about saying anything cause I do not want to ruin this podcast because this is probably been one of the most popular podcasts that we've ever had before. I'm going to tell you that. And I you've noticed that I've been taking like, some meticulous notes here of things that have really stood out to me. But the thing that I keep thinking in my head is I wish for every LGBTQ+ individual. The one they come out, they have someone Like You that that can love and support them because I know they all don't. And you sharing your response and what you said. And even expressing, you know what, I was a little frustrated that you didn't tell me right away. And I don't think that's a bad thing because I think it was OK to say, hey, I wish you could come to me, but I respect that you didn't. But that's just what I keep thinking in my head as I know there are so many of these individuals that are lost and they don't have that person to go to. And I hope that they can find that person. Just like you.
Sydney: Well, you're sweet. I'm made lots of mistakes. My children first of all are very kind and did not make a list of all the things I have said that are wrong. Because I have said plenty of wrong things. I mean for one of Dereks birthdays, I said, “Yeah, I just really hope you find a woman to marry.” I mean who says that right? To a gay son. So I am trying to improve and learn the things that are really not the best thing to do. It's a process, right? Yeah. And you know, this is the thing that I feel like it's really important in all of parenting, right. Because you can look back and you can say, gosh, I wish I'd done that better in the way you raised your kids, you know. But if you're always trying to do your best. You need to remember that you were trying to do your best, right? There's been some family dinners when my kids have break me across the coals and I've, like, gone to bed that night crying thing. Wow. Was like that bad and. But yet I look back and I have to say to myself. Wait a minute. I was doing my best. That's all that I could expect of myself. I can't look back today, 30 years earlier and knowing what I know now with today's lens and look back and say, well, gosh, I really screwed that up. Because I know back then I was doing my best. And I think that's really important that if we are always trying to do our best. That's good. And yeah, we're not supposed to be perfect. We're here to learn, and it's a process. Right. And sometimes it's slower than others. Excuse me. And I feel like also that it's really important to have grace for other parents because it's easy in this space to look and say my heavens, aren't they treating their kids that way. But everybody has their own upbringing and their own baggage in their own difficulties, right? I happen to start in a really hard place, so for me, you know some things that would be really hard for other people are like a piece of cake. Just think, oh, this isn't hard. You know, we were running to hotels hoping my dad didn't kill my mom. I mean, when I was 3. And so, you know, that's so I have to be careful that with that. But I think it's really important to recognize that everybody's coming has their own stuff. Yeah, right. They're coming from their own place.
Hilary: And it goes back to what I have written in big bold letters. And that is love. Like you said. Like that is the theme I think of this podcast is just to love and I wish you guys could see Syd right now because she has a stack of papers in front of her for note purposes. But also I noticed that. She has some pictures I'm assuming of Kennedy and Kelsey. Smiling, beautiful, beautiful ladies. And so, I noticed that she was skimming through those papers that she had these pictures of these sweet ladies in her life. And it just made me smile to know that you had that with you.
Sydney: Well, they're getting married in June and we're really, I'm really excited. It's an interesting space because I have some family members that think maybe I celebrate them too much, but I'm not sure how. You half celebrate someone. You know, how do you half go look for wedding dresses. Just not even possible, but I also am pretty excited about life and I love people. But I just am all in, I'm all in and celebrating them and exciting for them. And I think I had someone say to me once. If you can't say you're happy for someone because it goes against something you believe, right? Then you could say I'm really happy you're happy. Right. And that's a step. Right. Because like I said, everybody's at. Their own place. And so I try to have patience with everybody else in my life and where they are in their stage of accepting. Right, yeah. People that believe differently than them or that. You know, are living a different lifestyle than they might think is proper if you will. But really, and I love my children a lot. And I've learned if you can love their spouses to you, it's a bonus. And so far I've been really blessed with three really amazing daughter in laws, daughters in law and I love Kelsey. She's just delightful. I am very excited for and Kennedy, it was good to have really, really good long conversations with Kennedy to really feel where she is in this relationship, she, she said. Mom, Kelsey is my person. And you know, like your stepdaughter, people that are bisexual sort of sometimes get the worst of both worlds. Right. They get straight people saying, Oh my heavens, if you if you like both, why don't you just, you know for to a woman, why don't you just marry a man? Right and. And yet. I don't think Kennedy was necessarily seeking it. She just met Kelsey and fell in love. Yeah, and she absolutely. She just said I just love her. And I think she's a wonderful young woman. Right. And her family is delightful, and so we're excited for them.
Hilary: That is exciting. Yeah. And I do think, you know, although we may have different views on different things in life. I think for every parent all we really want is to be happy and that's going to like different for every child. But I think in the end that's all we want is a parent. It's for them to be happy, right? Whatever that's going to look like.
Sydney: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to let them live their life. That's a hard one. But like I said, I had the bonus of already having adult children. That's a hard transition, I suppose. You'll probably haven't gone through this much, you know, but because you're younger. But to transition away from being the parent of children that are under 18 living in your home. Into being a parent of adult children.
Jen: I want to thank you so much for coming, Syd and sharing your story with us. It was amazing and I think everyone can take something from it and apply it or try it or learn. Go out and learn. And that's what I hope people have really heard is that go out and learn. Ask your kids and your adult children and they're happy to share that is what I have found and that is what you have found as well. I want to also thank you to for being such a safe place for so many LGBTQ+ individuals. So. Thank you for that. We want to thank you for coming and listening to us today and we want to remind you to be kind and patient with yourselves and we will see you back here next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place podcast. If you would like to reach us, you can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly – The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is TheFamilyPlaceUtah.org if you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we'd love to see you there!
Subject Resources:
Encircle Utah: https://encircletogether.org/services/
Resources for Parent's with Religious Perspectives:
Books: “A Walk In My Shoes” by Ben Schilaty “Goodbye, I Love You” by Carol Lynn Pearson “No More Goodbyes” by Carol Lynn Pearson “A Better Heart” by Tom Christofferson “Tender Leaves of Hope” by Meghan Decker “Without the Mask” by Charlie Bird “The Law of Love” by Steve Young “Expanding the Borders of Zion” by Charlie Bird
Podcasts: “Questions From The Closet” hosted by Charlie Bird and Ben Schilaty (I went back to the first episode and listened to EVERY episode of this podcast)“Faith Matters” hosted by Tim and Aubrey Chaves “Listen Learn & Love” hosted by Richard Ostler
Contact:
Record questions here: https://anchor.fm/theparentsplace
Email us: parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org
Text "TFP" to 33222 for weekly parenting tips
Find us on social media: https://www.facebook.com/jendalyTFP
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