Whether working outside the home or being a stay at home mom, it's hard to find
balance through the craziness of our daily lives. In this episode we interview three amazing women, Kathy Sellars, Holly Frischknecht, and Audrey Hoffman, who give us their view points on how to balance the many roles women have.
Listen here:
Can't Listen? Read the Transcription Here:
Jen: Hello and welcome to the Parents Place, a podcast put out by the Family Place for parents to develop skills that will strengthen families and provide tools that will help each of us in our parenting efforts. No matter our skills. We can always use reminders that help us work towards a safer, happier home. I'm your host. Jennifer Daly, the Education Director at the Family Place and my co-host is Sara Hendricks, a family educator at the Family Place. Every week, we will interview professionals that will provide valuable information that will make a difference when you apply it directly to your life. Thank you for joining us. Now, let's get started with today's episode.
Jen: Hi and welcome to the Parents Place podcast! We're so excited to have you with us today. I'm Jen Daly, your host.
Sara: And I'm Sara Hendricks, you co-host.
Jen: We hope that you had a safe and happy new year and that you've had an opportunity to listen to our last podcast. It was amazing and can help you with the year ahead. We have a great panel this week of three moms that are all working, and they're going to give us some great advice. I'm going to have all of the moms introduce themselves, and then we'll get started with our podcast.
Kathy: Hi, I'm Kathy Sellers. I'm the finance manager here at the Family Place, and I started working here almost a year ago. I have eight children. They are all grown and out of the house that I have lots to share with you that I've learned over the years.
Holly: I'm Holly Frischknecht. I have been here for about two and a half years and the grant writer here and I have three kids ages 11 and twin seven-year olds, and we've been married for about 20 years.
Audrey: I'm Audrey Hoffman. I've been married for 18 years and I have four kids from the ages of six to 16. I've been with the Family Place for six years in the accounting department.
Sara: Well, welcome ladies are super excited to be doing this panel! We haven't done something like this before. I feel like the purpose of this episode is to help provide information for working families to help balance their home life, but also for the families who mom isn't working. I feel like there will still be valuable information because life is just busy and hard all of the time. So, to start, what do you feel like is your biggest struggle with being a working mom?
Holly: I would say probably my biggest struggle right now, at least, is that I am not good at compartmentalizing. I feel like if I'm working, I'm too often thinking about things I need to be doing with or for my kids or at home, or if I am doing stuff with my family or cooking dinner or, you know, trying to be engaged with my kids and thinking about work.
Kathy: I think my biggest struggle was trying to be perfect at everything and feeling so overwhelmed all of the time, and it's a lot to be a mom and working. But as I've gotten older and the kids are now out of the house, I've learned that you just have to breathe. You just have to take moments and just breathe and not worry about, Is this perfect? But are we enjoying ourselves? Are we loving each other? My kids know that I love them, and I think that's important.
Audrey: I agree with Kathy actually on the same things as she said, it is my struggle balancing the time and not trying to be perfect at all and into hard on myself. So, I like Kathy's advice.
Jen: I think all women; all moms struggle with this idea that they need to be perfect and things need to run perfectly. But it never goes that way. And at that time, we need to be mindful to understand that today is just a day and we can pick up and start again. But it is a real struggle for lots of moms out there. I remember years ago I was teaching a parenting class and we were talking about self-care, and the dad said, “Well, I've been working all day long. I come home. I should be able to take care of myself and not have to worry about the kids”. And I just, it took me back, and I'd have to say, “You have worked all day long and you've probably had a really hard work day. So why don't you take 15-20 minutes when you first walk through the door? Decompress, take care of yourself. And then why don't you give your wife who's been working as well; getting the kids ready and taking them to school, getting them fed, getting them dressed, doing the laundry, cleaning the bathrooms, whatever she's been doing all day long. Give her a break as well”. And he just looked dumbfounded at that. So, I always stress to those that are around moms, please, please, please just help give them a break! So how do you guys balance home life and work life?
Kathy: I think we all struggle with it like some days go great and some days don't. But it's not a 50-50. I mean, you can't walk out of the house and be totally at work because your mind is still going over what you have to do at home. And you know, you walk through the door and you're still going over in your mind what you have to do at work. But I think that we can be present and spend time with our family and our kids and enjoy those moments. I've lost a child and you want to go back and have all of those moments, so enjoy them while you've got them because they're precious! They're just so precious and fostering those relationships because the relationships are the most. So important thing, it's not your bank account, it's not whether you did a great job at work today or a great job as a mom today, and where are your relationships out? Are they OK? Does everyone important in your life know that they are important and that you love them?
Jen: And a really good friend who she always thought she was harming her children or causing trauma because of the fact that she worked, and then she would get home and she was frustrated with them. So, she thought she was hurting them. She was learning all of this information about trauma and how detrimental it can be to kids. And so, in her mind, her working and then going home and getting frustrated with her kids was causing them trauma. And I think the one thing that we need to remember is those hard times are going to come. That does not mean we're causing trauma to our kids. It's what we do afterwards. We're all going to get frustrated. We're all going to maybe yell at a moment or say something that we would love to take back. But it's the after part that's super important that if you go up and you say to your child, “I'm sorry, I overreacted or I love you”, give them a hug, it's those moments afterwards that are kind of going to take care of the things that happened prior.
Holly: I like what Kathy said about focusing on relationships because I feel like that is a hard part for me. I get focused on the to do lists too easily. And so, lots of times in the middle of that, the quality of my interactions and relationships and time really get impacted. And what Kathy was saying about where are you in your relationships and how are you constantly trying to improve those? Relationships take time and so do jobs. And so, to just the tasks of being a mother. So, I don't want anything to ever overshadow the real importance and focus of my life, which is what I hope to be the quality of my relationships. But day to day, that's pretty hard for me to keep it in perspective. So, I always appreciate talking to other mothers in all different stages of life because it kind of helps me see the bigger picture a lot easier.
Kathy: I think we need to be human and allow ourselves to be human and stop beating ourselves up for not being perfect.
Jen: It's that unattainable goal of perfection that none of us will ever get to. I think my favorite phrase from all of these podcasts I've come up with is just be kind to yourself and forgive yourself for what you have done and move on and try to do better the next day.
Audrey: So, one of the parts I think something that will help us balance our lives and our whole life is doing self-care. I hear all the time, if you take care of yourself, then you can take care of everything else, easier and happier. So that's one of my goals is actually to take more time to be able to build my self-care plan and to be able to do the self-care so that I can take care of my kids and take care of my work and be able to balance that all the better.
Kathy: Another good thing to do to teach yourself is how to say, “No”, you don't have to do it all. And if you can't do something, if it's going to overflow your plate even morethan it already is. So say no and people respect you even for saying no,
Jen: There's Brené Brown, who I just love, and she has a lot of great little snippets of information. But she had talked about once about saying no and she had purposefully purchased, I believe, a ring that she could spin on her thumb and she would spin that three times before she would answer. And if she couldn't think of a good reason why to say yes, that was her way to help her say no to things. So that silly little two letter word is so important and it's OK to say no.
Sara: Yeah! And from a past episode of that self-care episode, we said saying no is self-care. It's OK to say no. I found myself in just this interesting predicament this past year, and I feel like you guys can relate of moving my work life to my home. And that really changed that idea of balancing work life and home life, because for me, I had scheduled things that I have to do at certain times of the day, but everything else I can just pick and choose. It doesn't matter when I do those things. And so, then I really had to define my workday and look at things, as do I need to do this right now while my children are home from school? Can it wait until they go to bed and just find balance that way?
Holly: I feel like I've been up late working until two or three, and then I feel like I've been folding laundry during Zoom calls at different times! Like, I guess it goes back to that balancing. I don't know that there is a perfect way, especially at home, even though I thought maybe in some ways it is easier. I feel like there can be things that are nice about it, but there's definitely a lot of challenges and it kind of goes to that boundary setting boundaries and saying No. And I am not one I need to get like five rings to turn before I can learn to say no to things because I it's not something that I learned to do very well, and I feel like saying no to myself, to my unnecessary expectations would be a good place to start. If I could start there, I think I would be in a lot better place and it's hard for me. But usually when I'm folding laundry, I'm not doing it on camera. So no one is seeing it! But now you know what I'm doing though!
Sara: Now we know why that cameras off! Alright. So, do your kids ever give you a hard time for working instead of being home and available to their every need?
Audrey
Yes. Mine definitely do for sure. And my daughter tells me, Well, there's been times I've been out the door in tears, actually, because she's like, “You like, work more than you like us!” And so that I have to take a breather and then you go back and explain to them that it's not that situation. But yeah, I've definitely two of mine are teenagers right now. So, there 16 and 14, and my husband's gone a lot and so, it gets even trickier. And I'm trying to get something done for work and I'm like, I just need just give me an hour. Just give me this hour and they’re like “Fine. But you work all the time. You're always in your office”. So, yeah, it's definitely
Holly: No I do that all the time, and I'm at the point where, like “Good, I'm glad that you feel that way because I don't want you to think that I'm here to do everything for you when you want me to”. But no, I feel like there's kind of some necessary tension there that is at the stage my kids are at. They're still fairly needy, but old enough to definitely be learning how to do more things for themselves. And I sometimes feel like the responsibility of having a job outside the home gives me the excuse at times to be like, that is something that you are able to do that we've practiced that you can do. And I'm sorry, I can't for you right now or I won't be able to, but this is a good experience for you o your own and you know, it never works out as well as I explained it right then. But I think that that that is OK for our family at this time. There's definitely been times where that would not have worked. When my kids were littler or, you know, I definitely anticipate a lot of changes when they are teenagers. But right now, I don't feel as much guilt as I thought I would about that piece of working because it's right. Sometimes I can't do everything for them, and if it wasn't a job, it would be something else and it's a necessary lesson.
Kathy: I think that my kids just became independent when I wasn't available to help them or my husband wasn't available to help them. They had to figure it out and get it done and that's OK! They're very independent people now, very successful adults, and they do things for themselves, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I have one daughter who tells me that neither of us, neither me or my husband, made it to any of her D.A.R.E. programs when she was in fifth grade. And that hurts a little because I'm like,” Oh, I don't remember missing them”. But she says that we never came to any of hers. And so, yeah, you have memories come back and they'll bring them up when they're older. But you just have to think, OK, that I'm doing all that I can or I was doing all that I could at that moment in time and not beat yourself up because you are trying. You're an engaged parent and you are doing your best.
Jen: How you say that your kids bring up past things that you've missed. I don't remember my parents necessarily missing things, but I do remember me not being a good kid. A lot of times. And my mom likes to tell me a lot that I was the one that could bring her to tears the fastest. But I do think that it is important for kids to learn how to do things on their own. And working moms, you know, we have so much guilt with that. Of that, I'm not with them all the time or being able to go to all of their activities, but you're being an amazing example of what it is to work. And that is the one thing that my parents really gave to me, although my mom didn't start working until later. They instilled in us a work ethic that is really helpful for when we get older and as adults, you know, there's kids out there now that feel like “I don't need to work. Everything should just be given to me”. And growing up, I had to work for what I wanted, and I am grateful for that lesson that my parents gave me. So, my next question is; Do you guys ever feel like you're missing out on a lot because you're working?
Audrey: I have felt that way at times. And then there’s other time I've been very grateful for a job that's flexible. My job that I had prior to the Family Place was also is very flexible. And so, I can take off and go for a longer lunch break and go to do a kid's birthday party at school. So that was a great help to me because I don't feel like I missed out on as much.
Holly: I feel like I'm kind of still right in the middle of it, whatever I would be missing out on. So, I'm maybe, but I might not know until I look back at this and see. But the funny thing about COVID this year has been that I have actually been grateful that, you know, I can't go into the school as much a volunteer or we can't do as many activities or there are fewer things that I am missing out on as far as things outside the home because we are so limited to what we can do. And so, I feel like I'm trying to think about instead of what am I missing out on? How am I making the time I have count? And when I look at it that way, I don't feel like I'm missing out on very much. I feel like I'm very, very, very aware of what is happening in my kids' lives. But again, they're young. You know, ask me in five years when they have teenagers and kids dating and driving, and then it will be a totally different story. But for now, I feel like I'm actually gaining more than I'm missing. And you know that that's a feeling that could change. I felt like I was missing out at times when I wasn't working. And now that I am working, I look at how funny that is because if anything, it's just wherever you're at you can feel like you're missing something. And most likely when you get on the other side of that, you're not. You realize you are right. And it's just a different set of challenges, a different set of benefits, but it's kind of all the same life and so,
Sara: The grass is always greener. Exactly.
Holly: It's greener if you water it wherever you go. And so, I guess that's the part I want to focus on. What am I watering? What am I trying to make better? And I say that to myself because I need to hear it, not because it's necessarily easy for me to do. It's what I aspire to live like, what I'm able to do as easily as I wish it were.
Kathy: I think that we should not think about the things that we're missing. But what are we doing? What opportunities have we taken? Spin at the positive because I couldn't go on every field trip that I went on some and they made memories and those memories will be with me forever. And with the child that I went with. So, think about everything that you're doing in the time that you're spending with them. You won't be the room mother or the PTA president or, you know, all of those things that take up so much time. If you're working full time, it just it won't happen. So be grateful for the opportunities that you do take.
Jen: As I'm thinking of this, the schools will stay at home moms, too, because they're not going to be able to attend everything because they're going to have other little ones that they're going to have to take care of. And they can't take those little ones with them to a field trip or a performance or whatever the case may be. So again, just realize all of the good things that we're doing and thinking back to last week's episode of our twenty-five wants and I'm thinking, how can we apply this to this topic of why don't we write down 25 things that w want within our family and then take it to where we're doing 12 of those things. We write our list again and make sure that 12 of those things are what am I already doing for my family? Because like Esterlee let us know last week, our brain automatically goes to all the negative, and moms are doing so much good that we need to stop and realize what that good is.
Sara: I think, too, you don't always want to participate in those things, and that is perfectly OK! You don't have to go to every school party and whatever is going on in your child's life. It's OK to say no to some of those things and not attend and not feel bad about that because there are so many things going on. I was also thinking, I do try to attend the class parties every class party, but I don't know if this is how it is for all schools. But with my kids, the class parties are scheduled the same day at the same time for the whole school. They just do it all at once, which means I can only attend one child's party. I can't go to all of their parties. And so even though I'm attending for the one, there's still other kids that are missing out that don't get to have me there. And so, there's still balance no matter what. Even in what we're doing, you can still look at it in a negative way if you choose to.
Holly: And there's always another parent who wants to do the things you don't want to do, who is probably better at it. And that's a great thing. Like, I look at the people coaching my kids sports and I'm just like, “thank you, thank you for doing that” Because I love to watch them and I love them to participate. But oh, I don't want to coach. I'll bring treats every time I want. And so, when I see the coaches or any anyone participating in my kid's life who are really excited and passionate about the things they're doing, I just think good for you, like that's inspiring and it also is, you know, I can do those things that matter a lot to me and I can appreciate those things that others are doing. It matters a lot to them that I definitely don't want to be doing so. t's a huge help.
Sara: All right. So, if you could give other working moms a piece of advice, what would it be?
Kathy: I would say delegate as soon as your child is old enough to do something delegate. My family as a blended family and we have each other, we have custody of Ali. And at one point it was during tax season and I was working a lot of hours and I have this really odd thing. I fold the laundry as it comes out of the dryer, so I put it in to the basket folded and I give it to the child. And I was doing all the laundry for the household and I got the basket back and half of it was folded and half of it was dirty. And I went to my husband because I was tired and frustrated, and I said, “OK, what do I do?” I can't keep doing this because this is just a waste of my effort. And he said, well, let's pair an older child with a younger sibling and assign them a day of the week to do their laundry and teach them how to do it. And so, I did. That's what we did. We taught each of the children how to do laundry. I don't know that they sort clothes to this day, but they were taught and is their choice, whether they sort or not. But it took that off my plate. They were then responsible. All I had to do was remind them, “OK, it's your day to do laundry”, and that relieves some pressure. We did the same thing with dinner. They had they were assigned a day where they had to help me make dinner. So, delegate, it's not all of your responsibility just because you have the title of mom. Delegate, there's other people in your household that can help.
Holly: I really like that! And it's hard to do. Sometimes as a mom, it's just I think, Oh, just get it done, I'll just do it really fast or easier, but that doesn't do anyone a favor. So, I really like that idea. The other thing I was thinking about the advice is I don't have any. So, I appreciate, I love watching other mothers and I in my own family. I have sisters and sisters in law who are just awesome moms and my own mom and my mother in laws are just really, really amazing moms. And they're so different. They're all so different. And there's good things in everything that they do. So, I just feel like appreciating the opportunity to be a mom is something that I feel strongly about. It took us a long time to get our family here, and I thought because of that, because it was something I wanted so badly, I would be a natural, easy mom. It just sounds silly to me. I now I'm often like, “I wanted this so bad and so awful at it. How did that happen?” But I think that that's just the case with motherhood in general, that there are so many wonderful things and there are very, very difficult things. And that's kind of what makes the good as good as it is because you could get through the hard. And so, I think jus recognizing that and then just lifting other mothers up at the stage of motherhood that they're in and learning from them and appreciating what i takes to create and teach a tiny human, that's a lot! That's a lot of work! Just the laundry, understanding eight kids’ laundry that blows my mind. So, you start adding, you know, any education and morals and physical development and all of that, and it's actually incredible that we have anyone turn out pretty well. So, I'd say, you know, give yourself a nice, long, slow clap, have a nap and just enjoy what you can!
Audrey: So probably I don't know if I can sum it up, some one piece of advice and a summary of what we've kind of what we've talked about here so well. I know what I was thinking on my drive here was I was thinking more of that. Just don't be so hard on yourself. I mean, take a break, breathe. You're not perfect and I'm going to be stuck and I'll be done exactly perfect. So just relax and enjoy the time you have with your kids.
Kathy: I would also say help each child know that they're important and that they're loved. That's huge. I used to get so angry with my kids because they wouldn't do it the way I wanted things done. And my husband took me aside and said,” Be appreciative of what they're actually trying to do and love them for who they are and their abilities”. Whether the sinks cleaned out right or not, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. They need to know that they're loved and appreciated and wanted.
Jen: That's funny that you said that because I was just thinking about being appreciative of the way they do things, because I am also one that is like, I just cleaned the kitchen. You're more than welcome to bake cookies or whatever you want to do, but make sure look at the kitchen right now and make sure when you're done, it looks like this again. And I remember one day when she did that and then she had done her best in cleaning up the kitchen after she had baked. And I went over to the kitchen sink and I saw batter on the backsplash and this little spot of this, and I just had to stop and say, “Oh, I just love you” and be OK with it, because they're not going to do things exactly the way that we do it. And we have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are putting their best foot forward and doing their best that they can with the responsibilities we give them.
Holly: My husband always calls it evidence of fun. Every time I'm like, “Oh, this place is such a mess that I'm going to die or maybe tell someone else to me”. He's always like, this is just evidence that it's been a fun time. This is a good thing. This means that we've lived here and it's been good, and I want to think that. But that backsplash, messy was better.
Jen: But I do love that evidence of fun. So, what has been helpful for you to be successful in having a job and being a parent as well?
Audrey: For me, having family close by has been a great help. My sister lives just about eight minutes away from me, and so that's always been a great help when I've had to work late night on grant budgets and stuff like that. She's been a blessing to be able to call her and say, “can you pick the kids up from school? And I'm not sure how long it will be”. But so definitely having a support system, whether it's your sister or her good friend. Certainly not, but having a support system is definitely helpful for me
Holly: I think that's true, and I feel like I've recognized that more this past year as we have been around. Family is not or haven't been around friends or had babysitters or are just that level of support system isn't as assessable to us. I've really appreciated how much that's helped our family, especially when our twins were littler that support really matters. But I also feel like for my personality, it helps me to tell myself I am choosing this, and I don't mean that to disrespect anyone's situation who might not actually be able to choose it. But what I mean to say is, I'm choosing to be a mom. I'm choosing to work where I do and how I do. I'm choosing the attitude I bring to it. I'm choosing the expectations I have. So, when things get hard, as far as balancing or prioritizing, I just always stop and try to think. I'm glad that I can have my goofy little kids to play with and give me perspective and enjoy and teach me more than anyone else has about myself and all the things I need to work on. And I'm really glad to have a job that I'm passionate about and that I care deeply about and I love the people I work with. And so, keeping that kind of thing in mind really gives me a lot of purpose. And sometimes when I don't feel successful, I still can feel like I have a purposeful life. And now to me, ultimately means success.
Kathy: Well, you become an empty nester and then you miss those kids, so you miss having them underfoot and having to go to this and that. I've always had to work hasn't been a choice, so I always look at working as the opportunity for me to take care of my family financially. It's not something that pulls me away from them because I want to be the CEO or some successful person. It's just a matter of keeping a roof over our head and food on the table and clothes. It's just always been a part of our lives and my kids have just always known that.
Sara: I guess I'm a working mom too, so I'll share what's helped me be successful is just having my husband and I be on the same page and having that open communication with my husband so that he understands that today was really her day and dinner didn't get made, and he's OK with that. He also understands that all of the chores don't just fall to mom, and he's very helpful and does the dishes, and he probably does more laundry than I do, and that really helps to be successful raising a family and having a job when my husband is also there to bring in that balance.
Jen: I think one thing that I've discovered in probably the last month and a half instead of nagging or my husband or my stepdaughter to clean up after themselves, I will just say here, and “There's a lot of glitter around here, why should we do about all of this glitter?” So, my husband will now say every time after he's done with work, he's like, “I've got some glitter. I need to pick up the glitter”. And that's been very helpful. And we've tried to get that passed on to my stepdaughter to where it's like, “Oh, there's a lot of glitter. What should we do with this glitter?”
Sara: So that's great. Well, thank you, Kathy. Holly and Audrey for joining us. I think this episode was really great to relate to a working mom and understanding that balance between work and home life.
Jen: I think the biggest message that's come out of today is just to be kind to yourself. Remember all of the good things that you were doing.
Sara: Yeah. And I was also thinking, as we were talking, that it's really easy to compare ourselves to other people because it looks like they had it all together. How are we feeling everything? But really, we have no idea what's happening behind the scenes. We're only seeing that highlight reel. And so, to just focus on our own families and what's working for us, try to focus on that positive, what we're doing right. It's really easy to fall into that mom guilt and feel good about ourselves and that we're missing out on things. But ultimately, we're doing the best that we can and to just go easy on ourselves. So, thank you everyone for joining us. If you have any questions, you can email us at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org. You can also find us on Facebook. Jen Daly - The Family Place, Sara Hendricks - The Family Place. We hope that you had a Happy New Year, and we'll see you next week!
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