We have all heard about burnout at work but what about parental burnout. Jen and Hilary discuss findings from a published article about parental burnout, specifically for working parents. Have you ever felt guilty, exhausted, or wanted some extra support? This is the podcast for you!
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Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. I'm Hilary
Jen: and I'm Jen,
Hilary: And we're excited to have you guys. Jen is back. We told you last week that she was out in Southern California. We're excited that she has returned and that she gets to be with us today. Jen, anything fantastic that you did on a trip?
Jen: I got to see the ocean, which is always, I got to spend a little bit of time there, which is always a good resetting for me.
Hilary: Darn you Utah, if only you had a beach. Yeah, that wasn't a mucky brown lake, right? Yeah. Well, we love our mountains. We sometimes love our snow. But I love a good beach too, so we could just add that to our state. I think we’d have the perfect. All right, little guys. Jen sent me so about a week ago, Jen sent me an article and asked me, Do you think we should talk about this in the podcast? And I read the title of it. All I had to do was read the title of it, and I was like, Yes, yes, 100 times, yes! Like this needs to be talked about. So, we'll go ahead and put the link in the notes so that you guys can read through this entire article. But it's an article that came out in The New York Times. And the title of it is that a new report confirms that most working parents are burned out. And and I don't know about you guys, but you know, for our listeners out there, whether you're a working mom or not, I think you're shaking your head right now thinking, Yeah, I am. We didn't need a study to know that, right? We are burned out. And so, I'm really excited to share with you some of the things that I took away from this that hopefully will help you guys as well, too. But just to kind of start us out, it is, says in the beginning of this article that sixty six percent of working parents met this criteria for for parental burnout. And granted, this study was done back in 2001. So, we were kind of in the midst of COVID at that point, which I know for a lot of people was and. And extra stressful time of their lives. But the thing that they kind of stated in this article was that. You know, parental burnout is here to stay. Just because COVID is, you know, I don't know if we can even use the word done because I don't think we're done here, I don't think we're anywhere near being done. But they did say that, you know, just because the lockdown of the pandemic is over, it doesn't necessarily mean that we are back to rays and sunshine. I mean, burnout still definitely a part of many parent’s lives, particularly of those parents that are working. So maybe let's start here. Let's get to the bottom of what exactly do you feel like burnout is? Let's try to define that because I think that that's a term that we oftentimes use in family life and maybe we don't necessarily know what it means. So, what do you think, Jen? What would you say burnout looks like?
Jen: Well, before I answer that, I had some thoughts about what you were talking about with burnout and the pandemic. And I think even though we are still in that midst of a pandemic, we still have to worry if we have COVID, we have to still test our kids if they've been exposed and all that stuff. But I also think just the in the overall environment of society, of what's going on with inflation and gas prices and, you know, worries if we're going to enter another war and all of that other stuff, I think that is just as it weighs heavy on everyone. But I think it weighs a little bit more on parents because now these are conversations that they've had probably have to talk with their kids about. So of course, that's going to be overwhelming.
Hilary: Yeah, and you're right. I mean, I feel like, we've had a lot of side effects based on COVID that aren't going away. I mean, we're always going to view probably health care in a different eye. And for many parents, COVID hit and we started working from home or doing a hybrid, and that hasn't changed. And so, I feel like even though we're, you know, not reporting the numbers every 10 minutes on the news, we still have an ever-changing world because of this. And even when it's completely eliminated, if it ever is, there's always going to be a new stress that's going to be a part of our lives. And so, yeah, stress levels, though they may fluctuate to a degree, never completely leave, unfortunately.
Jen: I wish they would. I wish there could be a calm, but it's always going to be with us. So, I think it's good to be able to recognize what that is. And I think that burnout is when you just get exhausted and even doing the bare minimum with your kids. It's that not only physical exhaustion, it's the mental and emotional. And I think that probably takes a bigger toll on parents. I don't, I'm not sure, but I would think that emotional and mental would take a bigger toll than physical. But. As I think about it, that it's just a domino effect, you start having those emotional and mental exhaustion. And then of course, your body is going to start to feel it. So, it's just a domino effect.
Hilary: Yeah, I am no physician by any means, but you're right, everything's linked together, right? So, when you've had an emotionally exhausting day, you feel it, you feel it in your limbs, you feel it in your bones, you are ready to crawl into bed and you may not have necessarily done any physical exercise exertion, but you feel it because they are. Everything is somewhat linked together, isn't it? Yeah, you know, I as I was looking at this article, I talked about these different symptoms and essentially how they affect our daily functioning right, because that's when, when we know that it's really hit is we're going to have hard days and stressful days. And then those days we can recover from or even though we're under some stress, we're still able to kind of maintain. But when we get to the point where we can't handle our day to day activities and functions, to the point, like you said, where we're just too, it's too much. Yeah, I mean, definitely we have reached that burnout level.
Jen: Well, the article also talked about feeling fatigued and getting irritable and. Lack of sleep or changing your mood and your appetites and things like that. You're more likely to snap at your kids. All of those things are our signs and I think, you know. Hopefully, lots of parents are realizing that this is normal, this is not, I mean, if they're finding that 66 percent of parents are in that burnout rate, this is normal. And hopefully that validates a lot of our listeners feelings that it's OK. The next step from realizing if we have this parental burnout is to figure out what to do about it. And so. I think the first step in that is just acknowledging I, I'm exhausted. I'm not liking my kids more often, and to say that you don't like your kids is OK. You're always going to love them, but sometimes you just don't like them and that's OK. But. Just first recognizing. So what else do you think that parents can do besides just recognizing the fact that they have that parental burnout?
Hilary: Yeah, that's a good point. I feel like, you know, it's funny because I feel like our society is getting better at, in my opinion. I it's still got a ways to go, but I think we're getting better in and being open and honest with each other because I think that, you know, previous to this, you kind of have this, this facade as moms that I've got it. Like, I've got it, I got it together. Everything's fine. We don't have a problem at our house. Everybody else might, but we're good. We're good. Like, I can do this and I feel like it's moms and dads. I mean, we'll throw dads in there as well, too, because obviously they feel this too. But it's hard. Hard to admit. That you're struggling, especially as a parent, because I think sometimes. Especially with social media and TV and all of these other avenues that tend to falsify motherhood and fatherhood. It makes it seem like it's so easy to everybody but me. And it's not. And so, I love the idea that you're saying it's OK. It's OK to admit my kids are driving me bananas and I've lost my cool with them and I maybe don't want to see them too. You know, all those sorts of things are things that I think we've all said in our head before. And I think we just need to get comfortable enough to be able to say it out loud. And I think that's another thing to. That we need to work on getting at is finding those support systems where we can say those words out loud, whether that be friends or family or neighbors or co-workers right to be able to say I'm struggling, I need help. I can't do this alone anymore. And that's a big step to take. That's hard to take.
Jen: It reminds, it reminds me of a clip from, Desperate Housewives. When that was on way back when one of the moms was having a really hard time and just crying and her other friends come up to her and say, we're in the same boat and she's like, “Then why don't you talk about it?” And so, I do feel like we've gotten better. We have a lot more room to go. But asking for help is surely one of the greatest strengths we can have. I think it takes a strong person to reach out and say, “I need a little bit of help” and there's nothing wrong with that.
Hilary: And I think it's I think when we get to the point of doing that, you'll be amazed how validating that is because you'll have other parents that say, “Man, me too!” Right? When you have the courage to say that you're usually not alone, there's usually other people that will. It just takes that one brave person, one person to initiate that conversation, and then you'll realize that you're in good company. There's a lot of other people
Jen: And you'll be surprised at how many people come to run to help you. I mean, there's a lot of people that want to help your support system. If they know people are going to run to come help you.
Hilary: Yeah. You know, it's funny because I've heard people that have used this visual before and you talk about. Being a mom, a mother or a father when how you're always kind of juggling all these different balls, right? And there's only so many things you can juggle. And so, you guys know that I've got four little ones myself and I've always worked to some degree, whether that be full time or part time work, I've always worked in this stage of life where I've been raising my kids. What I have found is that it's it's really hard to multitask, and we've discussed this Jen and I, this ability to multitask and how it's again, one of those facades, because the reality is is that if you're trying to do more than one thing at the same time, your attention is being divided so you don't have your full attention on one thing. And I've found that I can be really good at one thing at a time, which means that sometimes those other balls are going to drop and that's OK. You know, there's sometimes when I am scheduling out my week or even my hours, I'll schedule out an hour for my kids. And guess what? I'm going to be really good at spending less time with my kids for that hour. But then I've got to move on to the next hour, and that hour has to be devoted to work, which means guess what? My kids have to maybe potentially do some independent play. At that point. I may not be fully engaged in what they're doing at that point. But the reality is, is that sometimes those balls take precedence over other. And so, I think it's important for parents to realize that we can't always devote 100 percent of ourselves to everything. We can't always be perfect at the cooking and the cleaning and the work and raising the children and spending time with our partner. There's times where we're going to have to put those other things to the wayside and focus on certain things and then move those things and focus on different things.
Jen: Yeah. I also liked in this article how it just gave little things that you can do was like pitching in with child care, finding friends that you can trade child care with. And also, you know, if you find that you have friends and things that all go to dance or all go to soccer or whatever the case may be, you know, carpool. So, you do have that little bit of a break and make sure that sometimes in that little bit of a break, take care of yourself, do something you want to do.
Hilary: Now, my kids joke with me because we've got about five different carpools, depending on the activity and events that's happening. And my little girl said to me one time. “Well, when we're going to stop down carpool?”, and I said to her, “Oh, never will we ever be”. I mean, she grabbed it. She loves it when it's my turn to drive, and obviously, I mean, everybody else is up to as fantastic as me, I guess. But even though, yeah, do I drive any better than anybody else? No. But I said to her, You know what? Carpools are really helpful thing for moms and dads. And so, yeah, we'll probably do this to help your you're driving yourself, right? So be prepared for another seven years of carpool, sweetie. Yeah, but it is. It's little, right? It gives me 10-15 extra minutes in my day. But those 10 or 15 extra minutes are like pure gold. To be able to know that I can take care of something else, I can juggle one of those other balls while somebody else is taking care of the other one for me at that time. It's fantastic. So why, why do you think we see this so much more often with working moms? Where this study was kind of focused on working parents being burned out, which I want our listeners to understand that obviously we're not discounting those individuals that are not working because I think that you stay at home parents. I mean, it’s obviously burnout is definitely there and definitely a possibility for our stay at home parents. But what do we what do you think you see with working moms and moms and dads and why so much more?
Jen: I think sometimes it's just that it's hard to put down work and be at home. It takes skill and practice to be able to say, OK, work is work, and I'm leaving it there. And when I'm home, I'm just going to take care of what I need to a home, but a lot of times. I think working moms, they leave work, but then they're just as busy when they get home. And that is taking their kids to all of their activities and making sure they're getting their homework done. And then, you know, you got dinner to make and then you've got your bedtime routine. And so, it just doesn't stop. When they get home. That's my thought process. Yeah.
Hilary: And you know, I we are blessed with so much technology these days that it is both a blessing and a curse, right? Because I think it's so easy to take work home with you now as well, too. We've got our cell phones, which means that we are still connected to work. Essentially, if we have our emails on our phones or if you know, we're in a position where we're answering calls after hours, it's and that's something that's been really hard for me as a working mom is to find that divide because you are constantly torn between. Well, I got a few extra minutes, so I'll just hurry and respond to that email or someone will contact me. I'll just hurry and write back, right? And so, it is. It's kind of finding that balance between this is the home life. This is the work life and when and should they mix from time to time.
Jen: I noticed when we went to working from home and, you know, my computer and my desks were in my bedroom. So, it's always there in my face because my husband's desk is in the living room and his computer is out there. So, I'm always seeing a computer. But I also notice that I would take days off and I work from home on Mondays and Fridays, and those are the days that I normally take off and. I'm like, well, my computer's here, I can attend that meeting, that's not a big deal. And oh, well, there's that little meeting that in the afternoon. I can attend that too, because just taking a day off, so then your day doesn't your day is not a takeoff day. And so, I think that's another thing is that our computers are in our face when we're at home still. And so, we just think, Oh, I can do this a little bit.
Hilary: Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I think one of the things that's really hard for me is and granted, I love I love working. I love my job. I find a lot of satisfaction from doing it and that's what I continue to. But I think although I feel a great sense of satisfaction, there's always going to be a little bit of guilt. That's why couldn't I attend that event with my child or I had to miss that, that practice for them? Or, you know, I can't be the volunteer at the school during the day because I have obviously a responsibilities in my career. And so, I feel like there's always a small portion of me that feels guilty. And it's hard because then when my kids get home, I'm like, OK, this is 100 percent You! I am going to focus solely on you and guess what that means. That means that I put all of my needs on the back burner because I always feel like, you know, I have worked. That's my thing. And now it's time for my kids. But the reality is that it's really easy to let go of that self-care and that me time when you do have those guilty feelings as a working parent. And we've talked about self-care before and how important it is that that's not the thing that we want to let go. That can't be the ball that constantly gets dropped. Yeah.
Jen: And that of self-care, you can do little things throughout the day. I mean, mindfulness is a big thing and I know it's the big topic right now, but it does really work of just being in the moment. One of my favorite mindfulness activities is just stopping for a minute and saying, OK, what are five things that I can hear? What are five things I can feel? What are five things I can smell, taste or touch? And that just clears your mind? Let you be in the moment. And sometimes you get a little bit of a smile while you're doing it because you're like, Oh, I smell. You know, when the trees are blooming, you know, or. You hear something funny that the kids are saying something like that that just as brings you down and brings you into the moment, and that's one of my favorite mindfulness activities.
Hilary: Yeah, I love you know, the thing that I love about mindfulness is that. For the most part, it doesn't require a significant chunk of time. It's usually very small spurts of time, right, that don't require us accumulating stuff and items or leaving our home or spending money on anything. It's taking what we have at the moment and calming our thoughts and our emotions and our feelings and spending just those few seconds if needs be to kind of reconnect with our self and self. I love that because sometimes I'm feeling overwhelmed and I'm thinking, OK, I should probably go down to my local rec center and attend to an exercise class, but guess what? Maybe the car is not around. Maybe I can't find a babysitter. Maybe it's not at the right time, and it's like, Well, I'll just bag that entire thing. And so, it doesn't have to be a big event in order to give ourselves that time that we need can be something very small, five minutes, if that's all we got.
Jen: And there's a lot of apps out there now that can help you do that. I mean, Headspace is a great one as lots of short little mindfulness activities or they have meditation, things like that. So, I, those are really helpful as well to me.
Hilary: And one thing that I do think it's important that we bring up from this article is that it did make mention that a lot of times feeling this, this burnout for parents could potentially be an indicator of some other, maybe mental health struggles that a parent may be dealing with some exciting, some depression or whatnot. And so, I feel like if we get to this point where we are feeling burned out, where we feel like we are giving and giving and giving until we can't give anymore, along with reaching out to our contacts, our resources, our friends and our family, it doesn't hurt to reach out to our medical professionals as well, too, and get that advice because that's very real, you know, to experience those sorts of feelings. And so, I think let's not discredit that and remember that that that is a very appropriate thing to do when we feel this as a parent.
Jen: Absolutely. That's one great thing when I always I just went to my doctor for some pain that I was having, and he's like, Well, let's get to the bottom of this. I am here to help you. This is why I got into my field was to help people be able to feel better. And I feel like that's the majority of what our medical professionals they want to help us. We've just got to ask them. And be honest.
Hilary: Well, I don't know about you, but I love the fact. That we're talking about this. We're talking about it more. And, you know, I hope the that you listeners out there have been able to. To connect with a few things, and if anything, to kind of have that moment to yourself where you think, Oh, “I am not alone, I have felt this way and other people have to and that's OK, that's OK”. To get to that point where, you know what? I'm a little bit stressed and overwhelmed, but I know what to do to get the help that I need.
Jen: Yeah, I think normalization is the biggest thing that we can do for everyone that it is just as normal and it's OK. I want to thank all of you for listening in today and hope that you are able to take some little nuggets for yourself and apply them to your days and to your weeks. I challenge you to do just some little mindfulness activities throughout this week and see if that makes a difference within your week. And it's not a bad idea to help your children do some mindfulness activities as well. If you're ever wanting to get in touch with Hilary or myself, you can reach us at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org, or you can find me on Facebook. Jen Daly -The Family Place. We're also going to soon be adding a little something to our podcast, and that is a little part or a little segment called “Ask Away”. So, this is for you to send in any questions that you may have. One thing that we really would love to do is to find out questions that kids maybe have a hard time asking their parents, and then we can talk about how you can talk to your kids about those hard questions. We appreciate you. Remember to be kind to yourself and more see in next week.
Resources: 1. Search : OSU Extention: Pandemic Parenting: Examining the Epidemic of Working Parental Burnout and Strategies to Help Free PDF guide. 2. https://nursing.osu.edu/event/working-parent-burnout-tips-and-tricks
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