Emotions can be a hard thing to understand. Are there good and bad emotions? Is it wrong to feel certain ways? Jessi helps us understand how to navigate our emotions and know how to respond to our children when they're experiencing big feelings.
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Jen: Hello and welcome to the Parents’ Place, a podcast put out by the Family Place for parents to develop skills that will strengthen families and provide tools that will help each of us in our parenting efforts. No matter our skills we can always use reminders that help us work towards a safer, happier home. I'm your host, Jennifer Daly, the education director at the Family Place and my co-host is Sara Hendricks, a family educator at the Family Place. Every week, we will interview professionals that will provide valuable information that will make a difference when you apply it directly to your life. Thank you for joining us. Now, let's get started with today's episode.
Sara: Welcome back to the Parents’ Place podcast. I'm your host, Sara Hendricks.
Jen: And I'm your co-host Jen Daley.
Sara: Today we have an awesome guest. Her name is Jessi Shipley, and she's going to help us gain a better understanding of emotions both in ourselves and with our children, and be able to know how to navigate those emotions with our children. So welcome, Jessi. Will you give us a little introduction of yourself?
Jessi: Yeah, thank you for having me on. I'm really excited to be here. So, an introduction to me. So, I'm a therapist at the Family Place. I work with children, families, people of all ages for all different kinds of reasons. I run a couple of groups, one being the Feelings Camp just for kids. It's like once a month and we really hone in on emotions and feelings. Outside of work, I love the outdoors and I'm originally from Los Angeles, so I love the beach. I miss the warm weather. But Utah is great and I love all the adventuring that can be done here. I have two dogs and yeah, that’s me, that's my life.
Jen: Well, thank you so much for telling us a little bit about yourself, and it's exciting to have you with us today and talking about one of my favorite topics of emotions and how to deal with them. So, the first question that I have for you is there is such a thing as good and bad emotions?
Jessi: So, short answer. No, I don't think there is such a thing as good or bad emotions. I think we have all emotions for all different kinds of reasons. We need emotions like anger. Anger helps us know when to set boundaries with other people helps us know, you know what's OK and what's not OK. If you've ever watched the movie Inside Out, you know that we need sadness. Sadness helps us process upsetting events and contributes to our ability to feel happiness. Even anxiety in a healthy amount can provide motivation that helps us know when we need to act. It's actually a survival instinct, so we need all emotions, even the ones that have been deemed bad. We need them for survival and we need them to be able to feel all the really pleasant feeling and comfortable emotions. So, no, I don't think there's such a thing as bad emotions.
Sara: Perfect. Well, so if there's not such thing as bad emotions, are there emotions that are maybe wrong to feel?
Jessi: Yeah, I think it's complex. I think that although they're not emotions that are inherently good or bad, I think that sometimes emotions can become too big or too intense, which feels really uncomfortable in our bodies and begins to have an influence on our behavior. So, anger is a really good example, right? Anger is not in itself bad, but anger can become harmful when it becomes too big and too intense for us to regulate and our own bodies for us to manage. And then when it starts to have an impact on how we behave, how we treat people, how we treat ourselves even. That's when that anger is probably not doing us very much good and it becomes more harmful than it is helpful. So, I think I don't know if I've used the word wrong, but there's definitely times where an emotion is not helpful and has become too intense and too big.
Jen: The way I think of it is, are you being effective with that emotion? And one thing that drives me crazy is when people tell you how you're supposed to feel. So, saying that you're feeling what you're feeling at the moment or the emotion that you're feeling at the moment is wrong. And I think we need to remember that lots of times, my understanding because of the way I grew up, my meaning for happiness or sadness or frustration may be very different from someone else's understanding of that emotion. And so really telling someone that they're wrong in the way that they feel it can be damaging in a way, then they're going to shut off and they're not going to share their emotions at all. And then that's when you have that big volcano that explodes when they're angry.
Sara: Yeah. So that actually makes me think of like little children when they fall down and get hurt and we tell them, Oh, you're fine, that didn't hurt. Well, they're feeling that emotion. You know, they're the ones going through it. And when we're shutting down what they're feeling, then they're starting to internalize that, Oh, this emotion isn't OK to feel, you know? And so, we do need to validate children in their emotions and allow them to feel the things that they're feeling.
Jen: I think also with adults, I've been told as an adult that you shouldn't feel that way. That drives me nuts as an adult. Going, come on. I'm old enough to know it's OK for me to feel this way. And this is the way I feel.
Jessi: For sure. Well, I think when we do that, when we go out like this isn't something to be sad about and we project that on the kids. I think it comes from a place of like uneasiness, like I've just interpreted the situation as happy and you've just interpreted this situation as sad. And that makes me feel uneasy that you and I are not on the same page and I don't understand what is happening inside of you right now. So, because I feel uneasy with your response, I'm going to project on to you and say, knock it off, like that's not how you should feel about the situation. So, it really comes from a place of our own misunderstanding or feelings of our own feelings.
Jen: It makes a lot of sense, though, because if you grew up in a home that didn't share feelings, but now you have people that are expressing their feelings and kids, I mean, that can be super uncomfortable and you may not know how to deal with it. And so, your knee-jerk reaction is just to shut it down. I don't want to deal with this, so let's just put it away. And so that makes a lot of sense.
Sara: And I think on the flip side of what you're saying is like trying to project your emotions onto somebody. We can also take it the other way of, Oh, I was wrong and how I'm feeling. I need to be feeling that way. And so, we just kind of create this like feeling that emotions are wrong. But one thing that I was thinking is it's not the emotion that's wrong, but our actions that can be wrong. And so, it's not wrong to feel angry, but it's what we do with that anger that can be wrong. And so, one thing that I think is really helpful for children to understand is when they're feeling mad, we validate that they're mad. But for them to understand that it's not OK to hurt yourself, it's not OK to hurt others and it's not OK to hurt property. And so, if those things are happening because we're mad, that's the problem. But feeling that is not a problem.
Jessi: Yeah, absolutely. I think separating those two is really important. And when you are having to have that discussion with a child, like you said, validating and saying, you know, it's OK, it's OK, that you're mad that your brother knocked down your Lego tower, that's frustrating. That would make a lot of us mad, you know? But it's also not OK to go and knock him down. You know what I mean? So, like separating the two. I love that you said that. They're like validating the feeling first and then and then also correcting their behavior.
Jen: So, with all of these feelings, do you feel that kids have overreactive or hypersensitive emotions?
Jessi: I don't think that kids have hyper sensitive or overreactive emotions. I think that they just are still learning how to regulate and sit with their emotions. So, one example I think of as me as an adult, when I am frustrated with something, maybe that happened at work, it's going to be expressed very differently than like when a two- or three-year-old has that same frustrated feeling. When a two- or three-year-old has that feeling of frustration, they might express it in what we call like a tantrum, right? They might throw their bodies. They might get really loud, they might cry. And I don't think that what the two- or three-year-olds is experiencing is much different than what I'm experiencing as an adult. That frustration. The difference is that they are two or three years old, so they're not ruled out for being able to manage and understand that emotion is just so limited. And I've had lots of time to figure out my tool belt and all my tools and everything for managing emotions. So, it's not that they are overreactive or hypersensitive, it's just that I think just a part of what childhood is about is learning and growing, and they're still figuring it out, and they just need a lot more help identifying, regulating, and expressing their emotions.
Jen: I think we need to remember also that we're their teacher. And so, if we're not handling our emotions in the best way, our children are going, that is what they've learned. So, they're going to handle it the same way we do. So, making sure that we're being good examples and when we're not being good examples saying, you know, I made a mistake, I really overreacted in this situation. This is how I should have handled this. So, kids learn how to handle those emotions.
Sara: Yeah. And I especially love the idea of apologizing when we make mistakes so that our kids understand that we make mistakes too, and that it doesn't mean that we just ignore those mistakes that we correct them as well. I love that you said that kids are still learning that they don't have enough tools in their toolbox to know how to express their emotions. And so that might be why it seems like they're overreacting or hypersensitive. But it's really just that they are still learning how to handle those big emotions that they're feeling. And one thing when my kids were littler, I used to always like, have that mentality of like, Oh, they're still learning when I would feel really frustrated in a situation. Just remember, they're still learning. They have two years of experience. And so, to just be mindful of that and still, I mean, my oldest, I will tell her, you have never been nine before, and I've never been the mom to a nine-year-old before. So, let's figure this out together because we're both learning. This is new for both of us. So, I think it's good to keep that in mind that they're still learning. So, what are the main emotions that we, as humans feel?
Jessi: When I think of main emotions? I guess the ones that pop into my head first are anger, sadness, happiness, fear as like really these core basic emotions. But the reality is that emotions are much more complex than this, right? I've already used the word frustrated. That would be, you know, if I asked you, where does frustrated fall in that category of four basic emotions you might say, maybe it falls under anger. There's lots of different emotions that really break down these categories of anger, sadness, happiness, and fear. And that's been a big journey for me in expressing and regulating my own emotions and is learning how important it is that I, I know what I'm feeling that I can pinpoint what I am feeling outside of the main basic emotions of anger, sadness, happiness, and fear. So, I think that there's a lot, I think that also helping kids learn that there's so many things to feel and you might grow multiple things at once and you might get a jumble of things and you might have a really hard time putting into words exactly what you're feeling. And you might be a combination of things so that they know how complex emotions are, and they can start to learn better how to describe them, I think, is really important. Something I love using in therapy with kids and adults is like an emotion wheel. I start with a big circle, multiple layers and the smallest circle in the middle. First layer has those basic main emotions of anger, sadness, happiness, and fear. And then the next layer breaks it down even more so it might have things such as disappointment, joy, excitement, and then it's going to break down even further and have even more emotions like frustration, surprise, doubt, like all these like emotions that we don't really think about all the time, and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. But I like to I like to show this to kids to help increase their emotional vocabulary because I find that it helps them in moments of emotional upset that they can pinpoint and share with me exactly what's going on or share with their parents exactly what they're feeling so that their parents can kind of investigate it further. So, if you think a child's really angry but he tells, you know, I'm really disappointed. That is going to help you make so much more sense of what is going on and how to help them if they're actually disappointed rather than anger. So, we do have main basic emotions, but truth is it's much more complex than that. And also, everybody kind of has their own emotional range or repertoire, maybe of emotions. Some people feel happiness or anger more often or at greater intensity than they do sadness or fear. Right? We all kind of have our own emotional range and repertoire, so it looks different for everybody.
Jen: It reminds me of my stepdaughter. She will get really, really silly. And I think she's just high energy and comfortable with that, and she's just being silly. But when I finally sat down with her and asked her, are you really feeling silly? I found out when she acts that way, she's feeling more anxious. That's when she's getting anxious, and that is how she is coping with that anxiety that she's feeling. So, sitting down with your kids and really having a conversation, especially the ones that are older, that can. I mean, she's almost 15 now. So, sitting down, talking with your kids, the ones that can express that or even the smaller ones to where you can help them understand is really important just to get a better idea.
Jessi: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's kind of step one in how parents can help their kids with their emotions is helping kids learn how to identify their own emotions. Helping kids learn how to tell somebody what they're feeling inside their bodies. They know what they're feeling because they're the ones feeling it. But they don't quite always know how to communicate it. So, I find myself doing a lot of little projects with parents and with kids to provide them with literal tools that can help them identify and communicate their emotions. One thing that kids love is like it make these little faces. I print out and cut up a bunch of circles about the size of my hand and I tell them, Hey, here's your emotion. Disappointment. Draw what this might look like. How would you express this on the circle like a face? And then we draw that. We put it on a little popsicle stick and we make as many as we can. We usually make as many as the child feels like they express some kind of kids like what are your emotions that you feel often and you show them the little column chart and they get to pick? You know, I really feel this one a lot. And then you have them draw a face that represents it, put on a popsicle stick. And now they've got like 10 popsicles stick faces that they can pick from and use when they're at home and they're having a meltdown and they just don't know how to communicate to mom or dad. You know, this is what I'm feeling, and so they can just pick it up and show them because sometimes words are hard for kids. It's not always how they can view things or express things or communicate things. So that's a really fun one. Some kids really like a chart, and it just each square has a different face that represents a different emotion, but they can just point to what they're feeling. I think it would be really fun if the parents took pictures of kids showing the different emotion and then putting it on the chart. So, it's literally their own face expressing the emotion, and they get to pick which picture of them represents how they feel right now. But emotion identification is huge. For kids, it's a huge part of them being able to eventually regulate and process their own emotions.
Jen: So, you said step one is being able to identify, and I think step two is teaching them how to regulate their emotions. So how can parents help regulate their children's emotions or help teach them how to do that on their own?
Jessi: So, the first thing that I think about with emotion regulation parent to child is that parents need to feel confident in their own emotion regulation skills. Something that I've heard before is an escalated adult cannot de-escalate an escalated child. So, if you're feeling something intense because of your child's tantrum or whatever behavior they're showing, it's going to be most beneficial for you to regulate your own emotion first, and it's going to help you feel more equipped to de-escalate or help your child regulate next. So that would be the first thing. The next thing after you regulated your own emotions would be maybe just kind of taking a break. We talk about this at the Family Place. We talk about comfort corners. We use them. It's an area where kids can go to de-escalate or to regulate their big feelings or their big emotions. And whenever kids need to go there, they can communicate this by saying, I just need to take a break. So, take a break with your child, right? If you're in the middle of a play session and something happens of having a big feeling and are really upset, regulate yourself and then say, why don't we just take a little break and do some belly breathing or use like a regulation tool like silly putty or something that helps them feel more comfortable in their own bodies? Right? Taking that time and space to sit with your child and regulate with them is really beneficial. I've worked with a lot of parents that use the time out method, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes they'll say, No, you've just had a tantrum, you've just got really upset. Go to your room and we'll talk when you've calmed down. But then I start to encourage them to like, why don't we both go to the room and start to calm down, go to the room with your child and help them calm down. Take breaths with them, sit and talk to them, sing a song, do an ABC game, something that kind of helps them bring their energy back down and calm them. And then you can talk about the behavior and decide, you know, what could we have done differently? You know that classic conversation, but that would be a big thing is taking a break with your child to regulate you that are with them when they're needing to calm down. There's a lot of different tools and ideas that you can use to help around your child, help bring them back to calmness and regulation. I use the internet. I Googled coping skills or grounding techniques for kids, and you'll see blog posts after article after article of like 30 great grounding techniques to help soothe or calm your child, and they're amazing. A lot of them are different types of like breathing concepts. A lot of them are give your ideas on things you can buy, little things you can buy that will help calm your child down. So, finding what works best for your child is really important and kind of a fun exploration process. Another way to help your child regulate is being really open about your own emotional regulation. So, when you need a break expressing that to them, mom is feeling a really strong feeling right now, so I'm going to go to my room for a minute and take a break. I just need to close my eyes for a minute, or I need to meditate for a second. So being really open about your own struggle with emotions and how you regulate them, talking about how you're feeling is a big one. Just be open with your child and say, I'm feeling really overwhelmed with all the things that we have to do today. Maybe it'll help me if I write a list, just verbalize it because they're always listening, even when they're just playing with their own toys. They're listening, they're absorbing. So just being really open and verbal about your own emotion, regulation, and expression is really helpful.
Jen: Years ago, I worked with special needs kids. And one thing I really liked doing with them was having them feel their heartbeat. Because, you know, when we're getting frustrated or angry or any of those hard emotions, our heart rate increases. So, if they can feel that and then we can say, you know what? It looks like, your heart is beating really, really fast. Let's feel it. And when that starts to slow down, that's when we can talk. And so, I feel like that's a good way to help them understand when our heart is beating that fast. We can't talk and we can't think. So, let's sit down and feel that and then talk about it when it starts to slow down.
Sara: I think that all of these are such good ideas, and I love when you're talking about time out going with the child. And I was thinking because as my children are getting older, they have some emotions that really affect me negatively and I react instead of respond in these situations. And so, when you were saying to go with the child, I was like, no, it would be unproductive. But then you also had said to model for yourself like, I need to take a moment and calm down before having a conversation in that kind of situation. That would be a good opportunity for me to model like I need to calm down from what's happening. And then we'll talk. So, you go to your room, I'll go to my room. We'll both calm down and then come back together. But then I was also thinking, depending on the situation and how you're feeling as a parent, it would also be a good opportunity to practice calming down together. We're both dysregulated. So, let's do some breathing exercises together, or let's do something that's going to bring our energy to a more productive place so that we can then talk about what happened and what we could do differently so that that doesn't happen again.
Jen: I was just thinking like what the feeling of the heart going feel my heartbeat. It's racing and yours is racing too. And then it just came to me. What do you think we can do to calm our hearts and get those kids thinking? Whenever I ask a child, what do you think we should do? They come up with something completely out of the blue that I would have never thought of. And so sometimes it's just really helpful to ask them, what do you think we should do?
Jessi: Yeah, that is a great idea. And then it helps empower them too, right? Like they thought of this idea. They have much more control over their own feelings and their emotions, and they even though they did, you know, and we give them those opportunities to see that. And I think about being a kid and all those times I might get into a conflict like probably with my sister would probably fight and then it was usually my fault. So, then my mom would be like, go to your room like, I will come to you when I'm ready. And the fear that would come when she was ready to talk was like, oh no, I'm going to get grounded, I'm going to get in trouble. That was the second emotion. The first emotion was of anger at my sister. The second emotion is like, what is going to happen next? But if we kind of put in a little step there between the like, Hey, go to your room, I just saw what you did and let's talk about consequences. We put in a step of like emotion regulation that isn't really related to the incident. So, if you come in and you say your heart is beating, my heart is beating really fast. Why don't we do something to kind of bring that down or calm our self-down? What do you suggest? What is calming and fear reducing or anxiety reducing? Or the third step, which is, let's talk about what has happened, you know, let's talk about what we have to do now. So, it even sets you up for that conversation of consequences or correction go so much more smoothly. So, I love that. I love the concept of regulating with your child, and you don't have to talk about what just happened right away. You can tuck that away for a second and just calm down you and great bonding experience as well.
Sara: Jessi, you just made a connection for me. That is probably my take away from this episode of just realizing that when a child makes a mistake and their emotions led them to make that mistake and we send them to their room and say, I'll be there in a minute to talk about this, you know, they're not going to their room and regulating and calming down. It's building other emotions inside of them that is just going to continue that escalation. And so, I love what you said about putting in that step. I feel like that goes back to what we're talking about good and bad emotions, and if it's wrong to feel certain emotions and having that conversation with our child. It is OK that you feel the way that you do. There's nothing wrong with that. But it was the action that now has a consequence because we have to learn how to manage our actions that we're making. So, I just love that you made that connection and hopefully that helps parents as well to understand that children can feel that anxiety because they don't know what's coming next and they're worried about how big the consequence is going to be. Or did mom really see all of it? What parts did she see that I did? Because I know there are lots of mistakes in there. You know what part of it am I getting in trouble for? So, I just think that's so good as parents to help identify with our children the emotions that they're feeling. And that's not why they're in trouble. It's the actions. So, you've already kind of touched on this next question. And so, I don't know if you have more that you can share about it, but you've said that parents need to regulate. That we can't calm a child down if we're also escalated. And so, do you have some suggestions on how parents can regulate their emotions?
Jessi: Yes. Parent regulation is so important first. So, we did talk a little bit about how little coping skills and things they can do with their child and how important taking a break is for yourself. But ultimately, the two things that I just feel like are so important for parents in terms of their overall ability to cope and manage their own emotions and stress and everything that comes with parenting and life is self-care and self-compassion. I think these are really, really important concepts. I think self-care is really popular right now, which is great, it’s a good thing. But sometimes I think we misunderstand it and we think of it as things that we do to make up for the hard things in our life. So, if you had a bad day, you take a bubble bath, and that's still really great and helpful. But self-care is not just reactive to the hard stuff. Self-care is preventative as well. So, having things that you do throughout your day and making sure that you have time for yourself, even if it's just a few minutes to do activities that you love, that you're passionate about, that bring you fulfillment and joy so that when the hard things are hard, your cup is already full, right? You're able to better manage and handle parenting stress. So, having preventative self-care is really important. And then self-compassion is incredibly important. I always hear this word mom guilt, but I think it probably goes for both parents. I'm sure there's just parent guilt all around, which can be so draining, I assume, and having self-compassion to fight against the guilt, to fight against the should that we always tell ourselves is really, really important and will help us be better equipped to deal with the stressful and the harder things. So honing in on your self-care and self-compassion, I think, are really important.
Jen: We want to thank you for joining us today, Jessi. It's been a great time discussing emotions and feelings and how we can handle them. I am a true believer that every behavior has a need, and if we can focus on that need and that feeling at that time, then we're going to be more successful in helping and teaching our kids instead of focusing on that behavior. And I'm not saying ignore the behavior. I'm just saying first, look for that need and that emotion that they're having. So, I appreciate today and all of the great information that we've gotten. I challenge parents this week to really watch your kids, talk with your kids, and teach them how to regulate their emotions and pay attention to how you are regulating your emotions as well. If you would like to get in contact with Sarah or myself, you can reach us at Parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can find us on Facebook. Sarah Hendricks - The Family Place and Jen Daly - The Family Place. We hope you have a good week and we will see you next week.
Sara: Thanks again for listening. The Family Place is a non-profit organization in Logan, Utah, with a mission to strengthen families and protect children. We call ourselves starfish throwers. If you're unsure what that means, refer back to our introduction episode where we explain it. The good news is you can be a starfish thrower too by subscribing to the Parents’ Place podcast and liking our social media pages. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with others and help us get our message out to more people. Also, be sure to check the show notes for links to information referenced in this episode. That's all for now, but we'll catch you again next time on the Parents' Place.
Subject Resources: Feelings wheel: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/a-visual-guide-to-human-emotion/ Importance of Sadness: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/handy-hints-humans/201609/why-its-good-feel-sad Coping skills suggestions and resources for kids: https://copingskillsforkids.com/ This breaks down the concept of emotion regulation for parents: http://selfinjury.bctr.cornell.edu/perch/resources/what-is-emotion-regulationsinfo-brief.pdf Grounding techniques for kids: https://www.counselorkeri.com/2019/04/02/help-kids-manage-worry/ Emotion activities for kids: https://www.apperson.com/teach-talk/10-activities-to-help-students-explore-emotions Record questions here: https://anchor.fm/theparentsplace Email us: parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org
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