One of the most well-known discipline techniques in parenting has got to be timeouts. They have changed throughout time, but they are still used and can be helpful. Our guest today is here to tell us more about using timeouts in our parenting, the changes to make to get the best outcomes, and how adults need time outs as well!
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Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast, I'm Hilary
Jen: And I'm Jen
Hilary: And we are excited to have you guys here today, our listeners, we love you so very much and we appreciate you guys being able to support us in what we're doing here. So I know for myself and I am sure Jen feels the same way, but as parent educators, as individuals in the field of family life, one are the questions that we get, probably more often than anything else, is in regards to discipline and how to effectively discipline your kids. Best techniques, best practices. And it seems like out of all the techniques that are out there, the one that most people tend to fall back on is the technique of using timeout. And I mean, I don't know about you, but I have kind of learned from my own experience as well as my experience educating parents that. Timeout works really well for some, and it does not work really well for others. I think it is like that with every parenting technique, right? There is no magic formula for all children. But, I feel like there are, I don't want to say there's a right or wrong way of doing it, but I definitely feel like there are ways to make timeout more effective. And there's lots of things that we can do that make it less effective or even ineffective in general. And so I kind of want to brainstorm that idea of if we just use the timeout method, which I know many, many people do. How do we best go about doing it so that it's going to be effective for our kids so that it's going to be a useful tool for us? So, I mean, let me turn it back to you. Give me your thoughts. Is this something that you've seen in your career as well, too, with parents and questions?
Jen: Most definitely, I think. And there's a variety of different ways of doing your time out. There is the one minute for every year that they are. There's just set a timer. There's no timer. There's leave them alone. There's be with them during that time out. So, there's lots of different ways of doing it. But I think where it gets to be, the biggest problem is if time out is the only technique that we're using because once we're using a technique too much, it can become ineffective. And I feel like that's where a lot of parents get frustrated is because they don't know what else to do, but time outs. And so that's all that they use and then they become ineffective. And then there's the frustration that follows.
Hilary: Well, when you think about how frustrating it is for a kid to be put into a timeout 5, 10 times in the day because that's all we know how to do is so once again we're bringing our child to timeout. And once again, it's this incredibly frustrating situation on both ends right?
Jen: I think there was a period of time to where, you know, parents would spank and it was an OK thing. And then all of a sudden they're like, no spanking is bad, so let's not do it. Here's timeout use timeout instead. So, it was just everyone was just given one type of discipline. And then if you grew up with physical discipline of spanking or whatever your parents may have done, you don't know any difference. And I feel like this is where education and parenting classes comes in. And it is so important because you do get a different outlook on discipline, but also a bunch of different techniques. I just feel like we went from one side of the pendulum to the other side of the pendulum when there's a lot of in-between that we can do.
Hilary: Yeah. Well, gosh, there's so many things that you said that I want to explore, but let's start out with this because I feel like this might answer a lot of questions. But let's talk a little bit about maybe the why. So why are we putting our child in timeout? Because, like you said, there might be a lot of different things that we can do leading up to a time out that may even. Those things leading up to that may actually make it so that a time out isn't necessary anymore, but what would you say is the why? Why, when do we turn to timeout? What, what types of situations we want to use a technique like this for?
Jen: The why is I'm wanting to help them regulate their emotions and teach them how to do that appropriately.
Hilary: Yeah, and I know that we've had past podcasts about regulation and helping our children to regulate their emotions. But I think that that's important for parents to remember because I think a lot of parents see time out as a way to punish our kids for doing something naughty. And we know and we've talked about this as well, too on our podcast about the differences between discipline and punishment and what is the purpose of providing this consequence. But I think a lot of times parents equate, you've done something bad. Now here's your consequences to sit by yourself and learn from your mistake by sitting by yourself in this corner or in this room or wherever the designated timeout area is. And so kind of what we're getting on here is that that's not necessarily the purpose, but the purpose is that it gives kids and opportunity to escape the situation that they're in because their emotions are high and allows them to calm themselves down and allows them to calm their breathing on their mind so that they can return back to the situation in a more calm state, able to participate with their friends or family or whomever they were with before. And so it's not necessarily a punishment, but it's a tool that we can provide our kids to help them rather than to hurt them by saying, Here you go, stand here until you've learned better.
Jen: And I think about the effectiveness of that when we do use it as a punishment or a consequence for their misbehaviors. You kind of think about the age group that we use timeouts for. And then you got to think developmentally, are they able to sit in that space by themselves and contemplate the reasons why they were misbehaving? And really, they can't because developmentally they're not there. I mean, that's using your prefrontal cortex where your problem solving is. And really, if we're putting a two, three, four or five year old in there, but we have the understanding that that part of our brain is not developed until our mid-twenties. How in the world is that two to five year old? Going to be able to problem solve when that part of their brain is so. What's the word I'm looking for? Immature. I mean, it's just in its infancy stage of developing. And to put them in there and say, think about what you've done wrong and then we're going to talk about it, they just can't. They're not able physically able to do that.
Hilary: And so you can see why parents are so frustrated when they put their child in timeout and then their child comes out and repeats the same mistake it just did 30 minutes ago, and so then they're putting them in timeout again. And, you know, that's why we say that this at that point, this process is ineffective because there is a lesson that's being learned here. And so you can see why it just causes this frustration circle of parents when they're like, Did you not learn anything from this? Well, actually, they probably didn't, because probably can’t at this point.
Jen: Yeah, I like to equate it to the ABCs. So like when you're walking down the halls and schools and you hear, like if you're walking by a kindergarten room and they're learning their ABCs or a preschool room because they're learning them so much sooner now. But there's a lot of repetitiveness in there, and they repeat that because they don't learn their ABCs. The first time we do it, they have to repeat it. I don't know how many times before kids finally get all of the letters in the alphabet, so same way with misbehavior. You know, you think about how they make a mistake, we teach them the right way to do it. It's not going to be perfect. The first time, like the ABC is, you got a practice that over and over again, which means there's going to be a lot of misbehavior that we have to deal with because that's how kids learn is through that repetition. And if we're just sticking them in time out and saying, figure it out for themselves, why did you do this? They're not going to learn, so they're going to repeat a lot.
Hilary: Yeah, that's true. So you bring up I mean, we've talked a little bit about kind of the timeframe for this. And like you said, I think depending on what technique you're looking at, some will specify certain time limits. Others will leave it open-ended. What have you found from your experience when it comes to how much time? Because I know that parents want a number right, they want to know exactly how long they should be in when we should take our children out. From your experience, when you tend to find is the most effective.
Jen: I’d say no time, no time., just because if I can put them in time out and they can bring themselves back into a good energy in one minute. But they're six years old. And I'm going to make them sit there for the six minutes and they've recovered in one minute. What are they going to do for that next five minutes? Those negative emotions are going to start to kick up again. And then you're like, while you're not calm after six minutes, I'm going to start the timer over when they were really calm after one minute. Yeah. And so and sometimes you know, your six year old is throwing a huge tantrum and six minutes isn't enough. And so I don't I don't understand why we need to put a number on it. Let's just allow our kids to regain control. So then we can talk to them later. Yeah.
Hilary: I mean, I think having a number attached to it makes it easy for parents, right? Because I can set a timer and then I can walk away, I can leave this stressful situation so I can see why putting a number to it is put some pressure off of us. But the reality is, is that if we want this to be effective, you need to be part of this process. We don't necessarily just walk away and leave that as is. And so us being part of this process means that we're checking in and we're seeing if that, you know, if if they have had the opportunity to come down and if not, then they need a little bit more time. But we're part of that, right? We're continually monitoring, which puts a little bit of a burden on us, but it's necessary in order for us to get the end result we want.
Jen: Yeah. And if in that time we just say, do you know? Do you need to color? Do you need to, you know, squeeze your teddy bear? Do you need to play with some Play-Doh? All of those things helped reduce that high energy that they're having during a tantrum. And so in having some of those supplies on hand can help them reduce that high negative energy that they're having during tantrums. And sometimes we look at that as, OK, I'm rewarding them, but what we're really doing is teaching them how to regulate their emotions and then us being, they're going, OK, let's talk about what we just did. Why did our emotions become so big that we had to take a time out? And then what can we do differently? And that's the thing that needs to be repeated over and over again. So kids learn that when my energy does get this big, that I have other tools to use to bring it down and hopefully that will eliminate doing time outs. But timeouts should be used as a looked at as a positive thing instead of a negative thing.
Hilary: Yeah, know, I think we're totally taking this idea of the traditional time out and trying to, like, debunk it, right? Yeah. You know, because the reality is, is that I think when a lot of parents think about time out, they're still thinking of the child sitting in the corner nose to the wall type scenario where we're removing anything that might be at all fun. And and I think that and I hope that our society has learned that that's maybe not the best way to do it. And that's not the purpose here. Right. And so I want parents to remember that with time out. It's not necessarily meant to isolate the child from any and all things that could potentially help if essentially it's the opposite, right? Let's provide them with the tools they need to help them through this process. So let's go away from putting timeouts, having kids in time out in the corner or the wall or wherever that is and ends. And so would you suggest a bedroom, a family room? Where, where do you think would be the best place to have this happen?
Jen: I think wherever the child is most comfortable, I remember, she’s 20 now, but my youngest, my sister's youngest child, I watched her for the longest time and she would have big behaviors. And I will say, you know what, if you want to go lay down on your bed and when you're done, you can come out, we can talk about it. She would put herself on her bed, and then she just learned, OK. Jen's asking me to go reduce my, my energy kind of thing. So I think finding a spot that is comfortable for your child and talking to him prior, like when we have these big emotions, where do you want to go? And doing that in a time when they're not having a tantrum? So I think any space would work as long as you're comfortable with it. And we've talked about the comfort corner on a previous podcast. And so if you want to learn more about that, I mean, that can be used as a positive time out of where we just need to go and reduce our emotions. But I think there's also wisdom in that separation of parents and child if you as the parent have such a high energy. And this is getting so frustrating that there is that chance of hurting your child or if you just need a stinkin break because your child's been having tantrums all day long. There's wisdom in separating. And that's I think when we put in for the putting the child in that negative timeout. Put yourself in a timeout. Give yourself a timeout. Make sure your child is safe and then walk away and take that time out so that you can cool down.
Hilary: Yeah, I love that, and I think sometimes parents feel silly when they do that or maybe feel like they're failing if they do that. But honestly, you are modeling some wonderful skills by doing that for your child. I mean, when you say to your child, Mommy's really frustrated right now, I'm going to take a time out of my room. What we're what we're sharing with our kids is we're saying to our kids when I feel frustrated, I know that I need some time to myself. I know that I need some time to breathe, sometimes relax. Maybe some time to read my book, whatever it is that I do to help regulate. But we're teaching such a good modeling. I mean, we're modeling to our kids. And sending the message that, you know, when you feel this way, I hope that you would do the same, right? Because even as adults, even as parents, we get to the point where we are frustrated of those kids that's going to happen to us too. And so I love that and I love expressing that to your child and actually vocally saying, Hey, mom needs a time out, dad needs a timeout. And so I'm going to go to my room for a little bit. I'm going to come out once I've been able to relax. So powerful.
Jen: So I want to ask you, Hilary, do you have any of your kids that when you get really frustrated, do they take that personally sometimes?
Hilary: So I have, so my third, she is when she feels, she feels big feelings and she, out of all of my kids, probably feels the most remorseful when she makes a mistake. And it is almost hits her instantaneously, like if she happens to and sometimes it is on purpose and sometimes it is accidental. But let's say she happens to hit her brother, automatically, she goes into full tears mode that she has made that mistake, and it's really hard to kind of help her regain her composure and remind her that it was just an accident, he is OK. You can see that he's OK, but the thing that's interesting with her is that during those times with her, when she is so distraught. What she needs more than anything else at that point is for me to validate her. She's very much a physical touch type child. So in order for me to help her regulate her emotions, I'm usually putting her on my lap and helping to soothe her and helping to calm her down and reminding her to breathe. For me to put her in a room all by herself, it would just totally escalate the situation for her. She needs me, and she needs that, that feeling of comfort when she feels that way. And so the scenario of the traditional timeout child left all alone in their room definitely wouldn't help with her. And so I think that, you know you, you guys know your kids better than anyone else. And so there are some that might need that alone time, and that's exactly what what we should do. But there's others where maybe they need it in a different way, and for her, it's that physical touch that she needs.
Jen: Absolutely. Absolutely. I love how you learned their love language and how they respond to that is going to be really beneficial for families. I think lots of times kids take on parent frustrations as something that they've done wrong. And I love that we we have a coworker that does this with her I think she's nine years old now because every time she would get angry or upset or frustrated her as the parent, her child was always like, What did I do wrong? And now that she's learned, you know, mommy is upset right now, mommy needs a break, then her child's not internalizing her mom's frustrations. Yeah, I think that's awesome that she can say her daughter now can say, OK, mom needs some time alone so I can go somewhere else. And yes, she's nine, so she understands that a little bit more. But I feel like, you know, just with anything else, if this becomes in our normal language of telling our little ones, Mommy is upset right now, I need a time out. We're modeling that good behavior and our understanding that we need to regulate our on our emotions. But it can happen that young as two years old, they just kind of start getting to understand that. So I think it's super important for us to verbalize what's going on with us as well and letting them see that we need time also.
Hilary: You know, and I think it's really cool because I think a lot of parents that rely solely on timeouts, especially your traditional timeout, they start it with their kids when they're toddlers, but then their kids get to about age five or six. And all of a sudden, they don't know what to do because the traditional timeout isn't effective anymore. Kids, parents get to a certain age where they're like, Crap, my kids are just as big as me now, and I'm used to carrying my child to time out. And guess what? I can't carry them anymore. Mark, now they're strong enough that they can leave the room like, and then they're caught with a What do I do type situation and the way that we are trying to pattern kind of this modified version of time out is basically saying this is a skill that you're going to utilize throughout your entire lifetime, even into adulthood. You're still going to use this. And so I like that because there's a lot of parenting techniques that almost have an expiration date where it becomes a little bit less effective. And this is not one of them. This is something that will transition over because it's a lifelong skill that we want our kids to understand.
Jen: And that's why I like doing it this way of just. Figuring out our emotions and figuring out how we can decrease them because of the fact that in the workplace, when your teenager gets a job. The boss isn't going to say, go take a time out. Go sit in that chair over there and be by yourself. They're going to expect them to be able to regulate that emotion. And if I need to take it, if I need to take my break right now, my 15 minute break and go take a walk, then that's going to help me decrease that, that energy. And so, yeah, it is a skill that they will be able to take, and that's a real life skill. It's not this one. I always like to teach skills to kids that they can carry on into adulthood.
Hilary: Yeah, you may not always have an empty corner to go to when you're frustrated, right? But what you always will have is you'll have the ability to breathe deeply and maybe to learn some pressure points on your hands or your fingers or wherever that may be. That's something you can use, regardless of where you are. And so I love that because there's going to be times where kids get frustrated at school, or maybe they get frustrated on the soccer field, right? And they can't necessarily remove themselves from the situation like they can do at home, but they can find a way to breathe and relax and regulate right then and there wherever they may be. I don't know about you, but I think that we have created a new vision for a time out today, which I love with, and I know that there are some of your listeners out there that are thinking, OK, OK, this is not the time out that I thought it was. And I like that. I think that's OK. We're changing. We've learned new things in this field that are helping us to understand what works for our kids. And so if this is new territory to you, regulations, modulation, whatnot, like Jim said, take a look at some of our previous podcasts where we explain that a little bit more deeply, and it'll give you some ideas on how to implement that in your family. But I promise you if you can find those simple ways to allow that regulation to occur within your home, you'll see success, you'll see success with your family, and you'll see success with your kids by doing so as well to.
Jen: I think. Yeah, totally. You'll see that success. I think the one thing I just want you all to know is this isn't going to change overnight. It takes time. So be patient with yourself. Be kind to yourself and with your child and learn what really works for the two of you. And instead of just saying, Oh, this doesn't work, I'm going to not try it anymore. It takes time to change. And just be patient with yourselves. We love that all of you are joining with us each week and listening to hopefully some insight that Hillary and I can give to you, I know the both of us love doing this and and love being able to share ways that you can strengthen your relationship with your children and with your families. If you would like to reach out to Hillary or myself, you can reach us at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach me at Jen Daly – The Family Place on Facebook. I challenge you to try one thing this week that's a little bit different than your normal typical timeout, if that is a technique that you use. We hope that you have a wonderful week and we will see you back here next week.
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