Hilary and Jen discuss what changes they have noticed in parenting trends and education. Hilary and Jen have both been in the parent education field for over 10 years and have a lot of ideas! From parenting styles, changes in kids sports, and differences in classrooms and home, they have some great insight.
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Hello, everyone. Good to have you with us today. So, we've got kind of a unique topic today, if you will. It's just Jen and myself, but the question was posed to us by one of our colleagues. Not that Jen and I are old. I'll say that up front, but
Jen: You're not old, I'm old.
Hilary: But she asked us the question now what has changed in the parenting world from when you were a kid to what we are now? And also, kind of a throw into that the question of with the experience that both Jen and myself have had working in the field with parents and education kind of what are our big top three takeaways, if you will? Because obviously in this podcast, we talk about a lot of different parenting tips, techniques, things that you guys can do as listeners. And so, you know, if we could. essentially, you know, bring that down to three. What would that be for us? And so, gentlemen, I were chit chatting about that since we are so old and so wise. Right?
Jen: I don’t know about wise, I try
Hilary: Ok we’re old and not wise. And I think we got a few good ideas for you, just so you know. But Jen I'll let you introduce the first one.
Jen: So, the first one that we came up with was the difference in, just the way that we've parented. So back, you know, when I was a child, it was more of that authoritarian parenting style. And now it's more of it's more of what I think the goal is, is to be authoritative. Then authoritarian, so let me explain what the two different types mean because.
Hilary: They may not be terms that you're familiar with.
Jen: Yeah. Authoritarian is that you do it my way or the highway. It's we have all of these rules and boundaries and limits and, you know, harsh consequences and things like that. We fell on punishment versus discipline a lot back then. And now we're in that more, I mean, the idea would be authoritative. Which would be that together, as the parent and child, come together, come up with limits and boundaries. The child is more included in that situation so that we can hear what they have to say. They can contribute to the consequences that they may have. And it's just more of that counselor child kind of a feeling. But I think a lot of people have gone to that permissive parenting, which is, you know what I was told, I can't have all of these things. I can't tell my kids that it's my way or the highway I can't spank. I can't put them in the corner, all of these things. So, then I was just like, OK, I'm letting the kids rule the roost. And so that's the biggest change that I've noticed from when I was a kid to what's going on now.
Hilary: Yeah. Well, it's interesting because you talk about these different parenting styles and there's a lot of different parenting experts that have different names and terms for essentially all the same thing. And I think it's completely normal to look at yourself and look at your style and say, “Well, I mean, I think that I'm an authoritative parent, but maybe sometimes I'm more strict.” I mean, it's OK to kind of bounce back and forth, and I think that's completely normal. And it's probably completely normal to be maybe even a little bit more authoritarian with certain children and maybe a little bit more authoritative with others. I mean, given their personalities, you know how they're going to react to certain things. And so, I mean, it's not that we're necessarily saying that one is the right way and the others are bad because there are certain things that are probably, you know,
Jen: I mean, if my child comes to me and says, “Hey, mom, I want to talk to you about taking drugs, and I really would like to try this.” I mean, there's not going to be that give and take if a conversation is going to be no and it's going to be a hard no.
Hilary: Yeah. So that's a good point that there are some times where probably you're going to jump right into that authoritarian position, depending on what it is if it's a safety issue. I'm not going to necessarily say, Oh, OK, I'll sit back and let this happen. You know, they always use the analogy of, you know, if my child is running it into the road, I'm not just going to say, Well, I'll let this play out. They'll learn from their mistakes.
Jen: You can't let that pan out.
Hilary: You know you're going to run into the wrong. You're going to grab them by the arm, you're going to pull them back onto the yard and then you're probably going to yell at them because you're so stressed and flustered at that point. And that's OK, because as a parent, that's probably the reality. But it's interesting because I think that I mean, I have seen this shift for myself and I've talked to different coaches and educators. And it's interesting because with these educators that I've talked to them about, they've talked about how hard it is to be in education, to be a teacher nowadays, because kids are growing up in homes with very little boundaries, with very little rules. And so, then you put them in a setting like a school setting where there are rules that they need to follow some fairly strict rules and the kids don't know how to react. They don't know how to behave. And then as teachers, it's like, Well, here I am with my role of being an instructor, but also somewhat of a parental role, too, and it's hard to do both.
Jen: One thing that my I've talked to my sister, who's a teacher, and she said, Yeah, it's in the beginning of the school year. It is super hard to set up that structure of your classroom. But she's like, Once I get that set up and there's that period of time of learning and knowing that this is what is going to happen, that predictability, then the kids really thrive. You have your outlier kids, the kids that don't kind of get that, but a lot of kids will get that schedule and they'll thrive in that schedule. But then they go home and there's nothing. And then parents are like, My kid is crazy at home and they talk to the parent or the teachers and the teachers are saying they're great in class. And then they think that something's wrong with their child. And really, it is that structure.
Hilary: Mm hmm. I mean, we've talked about it in this podcast before about we've talked about boundaries and rules and the importance of them and the fact that although you know, kids aren't going to ask for these things, they're never going to come up to us and say, “Hey, I wish I had more rules”, right? You know, some consequences. But the reality is, is that they do better in those types of settings. They do better when they know what to expect, they do better when they know what their limitations are, what is and is not OK. And school is a great opportunity to do that. But our home is a great opportunity to do that to not. Do we have to necessarily have the same rules as the teacher does, but we can set up a similar structure in our home, we should.
Jen: I've told many parents, What do your teachers do? Yeah. You know, find out what they do in the classroom and see if you can implement some of those things in your home. So, they're getting it throughout the entire day, the entire week, instead of just those times when they're in school. So, talk with your teachers and figure out what they're doing to help their kids be or be OK with that structure.
Hilary: But I think the idea is, like you said, we've instead of going from the authoritarian, which is kind of the strict drill sergeant type approach to more of a collaboration. We've taken more of an extreme swing where we don't have any type of rules or boundaries. And I think as parents, we need to recognize that you don't need to be the drill sergeant. You don't need to tell them what they have to do at all times. You don't need to yell and command and use, you know, corporal punishment or whatnot. Those things aren't necessarily the most healthy effective things. But you do have to find a way to set up some rules and regulations and find opportunities for logical and natural consequences. And let kids own up to their mistakes. And that doesn't necessarily mean allowing them to do whatever they want.
Jen: Yeah. You said regulations and it made me think of sports. Like you think about all of the rules that are in sports. Yeah. So, my husband's just gotten me into watching football. And so, there's lots of rules, there's red flags and there's yellow flags and there's all these things for penalties, but they are able to play the game within that setting with those rules and structures. Imagine if there was any rules or regulations within sports, there'd be a free for all, chaos. Yeah, and that's like what parenting is without them. It's chaos. I remember hearing from one parent that she grew up with. I can't remember if it was a she or he, but this parent anyways grew up in the permissive with no rules and regulations. And she said As I grew older, I thought my parents didn't love me because they didn't put those rules on me or limits or boundaries. And I mean, it was probably in her early teens to where she's finally figuring out why my parents don't care what I do. So, I'm just going to do whatever I want
Hilary: Yeah, which is so interesting because I think sometimes you have children in the authoritarian structure probably feel the same way. My peers don't care about me because they're always telling me what to do, and they never listen to me and they respect my opinion. And so, it's interesting that you get a very similar experience on the far ends of the spectrum. So, the idea, I mean, and obviously, we've had multiple podcasts about this and we can talk about skin in the future. But the idea is that we want to find that that balance and part of that is understanding that we can allow kids to make mistakes. We can allow them to make choices. But we recognize that we are still in the driver's seat during that process. Right? I mean, if my child does something, I'm going to turn it over to them, but I'm going to do it in a way where, like we say, we're collaborating, right? And so, we are still in the process of making that decision or offering solutions or helping to guide them as to what the best option is. We're still observing were there if things go haywire, right? So, we're still there. I mean, we're still in the car. We're still driving that situation, but we're allowing them within their realm of understanding to take the lead.
Jen: And there's comfort in that because, you know, you have a trusted person that's going to be able to pull you back when it gets to be chaotic or dangerous or things like that. You know, your parent's going to come and say, You know what, I've given you all this freedom, and right now I can see that this is going to be a consequence I can't let you live with. So, I'm going to pull you back. Yeah. And I feel like when we do that, that child is going to be more willing to say, OK, I trust your opinion. Yeah, I trust that you're going to help me. They may not say it out loud,
Hilary: But in their head, they’re thinking that. I think one of the best. So, one of the best examples to kind of illustrate this is if you have a child that maybe is being bullied at school. And fortunately, kids are sometimes stupid and they make their own decisions and they say dumb things, right? I mean, no, we do those same things. The natural part of life. And so, let's say that we are aware that there is a child that maybe calling our child names. It hurts. As a parent, I never want to hear that, that my kids are dealing with an unfortunate situation like that, but I have a choice as a parent. I can talk my child through that process. I can give them some ideas of how they can cope and how they can deal certain things like, you know, avoiding that person or ignoring them, or, you know, being assertive and standing up for yourself or staying in a group with friends. I mean, you can give them options that they can work with because the reality is, is that this is something that most of us deal with even as adults. And we've got to figure out how to maneuver these social situations. And let's say that, you know, our child deals with a bully and it gets to the point where maybe it becomes violent. Mm-Hmm. As a parent, that's the time where I would probably step in and walk down to the school. I'd say my child is unsafe here. We need to come up with a plan as adults to help my child. So, I might intervene at that point. But if you hear that your child may be a certain kid in their class called your child the name and your first response is to march down to the school and say, You know, we have got to flip the school upside down when it comes to policies, guess what? We're not necessarily helping that child to a degree, yeah, we need to give them the opportunity to kind of work through these social situations on their own initially and then jump in at times when it's appropriate.
Jen: Yeah, I think that is great advice, and I think it's great advice for when they do get older because we do that. I mean, that's the ultimate goal. Yeah. At the end is we want them to be functional people in society where they don't need someone telling them what they can and cannot do. They have the skills to be able to think through that problem, solve it and come up with a solution.
Hilary: All right. So, our next one that we were kind of brainstorming and this was really interesting because as we started talking about this, we brought up just how are our families look different? Look different than 20, 30, 40 years ago. Primarily with the fact that either previously two-parent families was more of the norm, and that may not necessarily be the case nowadays, but also. It was very normal, 20, 30, 40 years ago to just have one parent work away from the home while the other stayed. Yeah, and I think it's very rare nowadays to see that. I think for most households you see both parents working, which is not a problem.
Jen: Oh no, it's out of necessity.
Hilary: Yeah, but it does. It does cause a change in how your household functions. I mean, you're talking about if both parents are gone, that means that kids may at times be on their own or you may have all their siblings taking care of younger siblings, or you may have them in child care. And again, when they're in a different setting, they may not have the same rules and boundaries that apply to them that they do in your home. Yeah. So, it's an interesting shift that we've seen in our society. And again, not that it's necessarily a bad shift. It's just it's causing us to maybe reevaluate what our home looks like and forcing us maybe to change some things.
Jen: Yeah, I think one of those things that have also changed is we put kids into lots of different activities, probably because both parents are working, so they need to have their kids busy instead of just sitting at home. And I think we can over schedule our kids. With that process.
Hilary: It's so interesting because Jen and I were talking and I think we grew up in similar situations where. We weren't very involved in activities, and if there was an activity. It was maybe once a week for an hour
Jen: For me, it was one sport. It's either softball or soccer.
Hilary: Uh-Huh.
Jen: Because one, my parents couldn't afford it.
Hilary: Exactly.
Jen: And the other two, there was a real emphasis on, you know, being home for dinner and eating dinner as a family and things like that. And I mean, even for you and I, you say that yours was much the same kind of experience, but there's 13 years age difference between the two of us.
Hilary: I feel like I feel like my childhood was probably right at about that shift where competitive sports started to kind of pop its head because before that, you did everything, Rec. It was recreation. It was you play for the season. Everybody comes together. It's very inexpensive. It's very it takes very little of your time. And I think we're starting to see this shift, and I kind of live through that shift of you can do that, but you can also take this competitive approach, which is more time intensive, which is obviously more costly and. And that means kids being away at night and potentially on the weekend riots, and obviously families will travel with them too, but I mean, it's time away from the home. And again, that's going to cause a shift in how your how you're deciding to run your household.
Jen: Yeah, I think as I was telling Hilary before we started recording, you know, it's a lot less parenting when you have your kids scheduled in so many things. And so, then the weekend comes or a season comes and there's no activities and you're like, with my kids, keep driving me crazy. Well, one that's very normal. They do drive us all crazy. But I think also is because they're out of that structured. If we don't have that structure at home and they're out of the structure of sports, then it's kind of like that. I don't know what to call it, like a jittery kind of like, I don't know what to do with kind of a thing for both parents and kids.
Hilary: Well, it's funny you bring that up, and I've never really thought of it this way. And I'll be honest, guys, I am. I am guilty of this myself. So not putting the blame on anyone. But it's so funny because I hear a lot of parents who get really anxious when school ends and summer starts because they go from having live or from their kids having a very structured lifestyle. They go to school for six hours and then they do their activities after that. And like you say, there's very little time at home. What's usually happening at home is let's get our homework done, let's take our showers and let's go to bed. And so, you go from the shift as being scheduled for 75 percent of your day to summer, which for most kids is very little structure. And that's why sometimes we as parents feel like we're going crazy because it is. It's a huge change in what we're accustomed to and what they are as well, too. Yeah. I mean, and I think that's why we've started to see again this shift in our society where we almost need to. We feel like we need to fill up our children's summer schedules now too, because I have seen that with my children, how you know, it's you almost feel like. In order for your child to have. An effective summer break that they have to be filled with summer camps and events and long vacations and lots of different things like that where we now growing up summer was the opportunity to run around the neighborhood and play and create games and have lemonade stands and do all the things that were that spontaneous play.
Jen: Yeah, yeah. You get to have that spontaneous play you get, have them do that imaginary play you. There's a lot of good things that come out of, you know, not being overscheduled and just allowing them to use their imaginations for what they do, but they're also good for having them in scheduled things. Yeah, I think the important part is to monitor your child, well not necessarily monitor, that’s kind of a harsh word I feel like. Observe your children and see how they're doing with it. Are they OK with it? Are they asking to do more activities like that, or are we forcing them to be in more activities? I remember. Oh, it was, probably. Twenty years ago, I was working with a family while I was going to school and she had her son in, this was before dual immersion really took off. And so, she had him before school learning about or learning Spanish. Then he was in school after that and then he was in football practice that happened every day. And then he was in some church things that happened throughout the week. And one morning I was having him get ready and mom was still there and he looked and she's like, “Don't forget, you know your Spanish stuff. Don't forget your football pads. Don't forget your piano book.” I mean, she had all of these things of don't forget. And he looked at her and said, “Mom, when do I just get to be a kid?” And I'm just like. I mean, that's a lot of self-awareness for himself. This is too much for me, but just making sure that you're watching your kids and seeing if they are overwhelmed, do they have time to be just a kid?
Hilary: It's interesting because I feel like, I mean, I am not perfect in this by any means. But during the summer, we're probably more on the end of less structured than more structured. But my kids are still involved with some activities, some minor activities. But usually one of the things that we do is kind of part of our routine at the end of the night. We'll go over what the next day's going to look like for our kids. And so, I might say to my oldest son, OK, you've got this camp from nine to 10, and then you guys have this practice from noon to one just kind of giving them the general idea of what the day will look like. But and these are all activities that my kids enjoy. They enjoy doing this. But it's always interesting to me because on the days where I can say to them, You guys actually have nothing tomorrow. They are so excited. They're like, “Yes, Nothing tomorrow!!” because I think they need that and they need, I mean, you think about it means we need that. We look forward to those weekends where we know we have nothing to do. And so, our kids are the same way as much as they enjoy these events. I think that that downtime is enjoyed just as much, if not more.
Jen: Anything that you know, there's a lot of two parent households that are or single mom households where they are needing all of those activities because they are working nine to five jobs. And so, during the day, they do need someone and that's not a bad thing. But when you get home? Evaluate if you really need more activities for them to do when you get home versus just being home as a family.
Hilary: Which makes it hard because if you're the working mom or the working dad, sometimes the one thing that you want is just to sit in front of the couch and just kind of like veg out for a little bit. And that's OK. You can have that if you need that, you know, spend that next 30 minutes watching TV and if your kids join you, that's great. But you're right, it's the idea that when we get home, can we just stay home?
Jen: Yeah, it's a hard thing to do. It's hard to leave work at work. Yeah, I think for single moms, it's hard to single dads. It's just as hard. Not one is any easier than the other.
Hilary: So, it's you know, you brought up a good point, though, that I was thinking about and when you were talking about observing your kids because I definitely think that I have certain kids that thrive on having that, you know, structured minute to minute routine and others that I know don't do well. That means a lot of flexibility. They need a lot of downtime. And so being able to recognize, you know, what, your kid, how they thrive. I know with our area, with our school district, we kind of shifted our school schedule because of COVID and certain things for the teachers, which meant that our school was ending earlier than what it normally was. So, I gave our kids about an extra 45 minutes before they had to run off to activities. And that was such a blessing for my girls because they were used to getting home from school and me greeting them with A.. “OK, guys, you have ten minutes. Go change into your dance clothes. Go grab yourself a snack. Go to the bathroom. Your carpool will be here soon.” And literally, it was me yelling command after command, after command to get them out the door. Mind you, this was after six hours of instruction at school and I would send my daughter to dance in tears most days because she needed that downtime. So, it was such a blessing for us and our home to have that extra 45 minutes to say, all right, you guys have forty-five minutes, you can sit on the couch and play with your toys. And if you watch a quick little cartoon, if you want to. Take your time, you've got some time to decompress in. And for her, it made a huge difference for my other child. She was fine jumping from one event to the next and and that works, but it doesn't work for everyone. And so, I think especially also when you're scheduling your activities, be strategic and how you're going about doing it when there and I know sometimes we don't have control over those things as to when they're happening. But if you find that you have a little one that is constantly complaining, you know, maybe it's not worth running them ragged. Yeah, in order to get them to these different things.
Jen: And as I sit here and I was listening to you and I was thinking, I'm like, I don't think I said, I don't think one is easier than the other. Or harder than the other in parenting if you have a two-parent household versus a one parent, if because you're working and I have to take that back because, you know, it is probably a lot easier with a two-parent household because you do have that. Yeah, OK, I need 30 minutes. You're going to have the kids for 30 minutes, and single parents don't have that. So, I retract that and I say probably having to parent as long as you have a two engaged in the household because sometimes you do have two parents, but one of them is not engaged in raising the kids. Your life is hard and you got challenges.
Hilary: There are times when I can clearly look at my husband and give him like the I and he knows step away and he can be there for those opportunities where I can hide myself in my room. And he has to be in charge at that time, and I know that for some people, they don't necessarily have that luxury.
Jen: Now I did have one dad in a parenting class, two-parent household and his wife would come home from work. She only worked part time job. He worked full time job. And when he came into the house, it was. I don't want to be bothered, , I'm going to work all day. Yeah. And I said, What do you think your wife's been doing? She's been working all day today, as well. We're just about out of time, and we just want to thank you for joining us today. We hope that some of what we said today helped you or resonated you with you or made you giggle, whatever it may be. We appreciate you listening to us, and we will see you next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place podcast. If you would like to reach us, you can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org, or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly - The Family Place. Please, please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is TheFamilyPlaceUtah.org you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes. We'd love to see you there!
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