We all live by values and standards. One that many people, if not everyone agrees on that is important is Integrity. As parents it be overwhelming with everything we need to do teach our kids that we may wonder, how do we show our kids in the importance of Integrity. Today, Jen and Hilary discuss Integrity, how to have in in ourselves and how to be an example to our children and others around us.
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place Podcast today. So today is one of our episodes where we're going to bring you some information that we have found to bring it to hopefully a conversation in your home with your kids and maybe with your partner. And so there's two articles that we will include in our show notes that we welcome you to read and refer to both in regards to teaching kids about integrity and one of the articles is based more so on how to do this in a school setting. But I think that it can. Easily the information could easily relate and transfer over to a home setting as well too. If you're not an educator in the school system, but. I thought this was interesting because I don't know about you Jen, but I feel like. We throw around this word integrity quite often. You know when we're talking about characteristics and skills that we want in ourself, integrity is usually on that list.
Jen: And that's one of my core values.
Hilary: Right. Yeah, we talk about values and finding, you know our value system and creating value system in kids and I think everyone can agree. I want my kid to have integrity, but I think the problem is.
Jen: They don't know what this is.
Hilary: We don't know what that means. Yeah, we don't necessarily have an incredibly firm grasp on what integrity even is. And so this article mentioned, you know, a few different definitions, but I just want to, I'm curious, when you think about integrity, what comes to your mind?
Jen: What comes to my mind is behaving the way I would in front of people when I'm by myself.
Hilary: Yeah.
Jen: I think of respecting and supporting authority. I think of not only authority, but just anyone and everyone. I think of, you know making sure I'm conducting myself in a way that. I would be proud of. So, if I mean those hard conversations, am I going to have, you know, integrity to say this isn't? We shouldn't really be talking about XY or Z like that, so those are the kind of things that I think of when we think about integrity.
Hilary: Yeah. I love that I you know. The thought sometimes when we think about integrity. Like you said, it's this idea. Of I mean. It's a core value. So for many people, they want to they want to show integrity when other people are around, like you said, but I also love that bring up like. What are those decisions that I'm making when other people aren't necessarily watching? Right? Because it's easy to make a respectable decision when our teacher is aware of what we're doing or when our boss is, you know, is going to be is going to know. But when no one else is around and there's no gain or benefit from us making this decision. Do we still continue to follow through with this decision.
Jen: How am I conducting myself?
Hilary: With or without a crowd. So I think that's powerful. It talks in this article about how it is. I want to get the exact word. But it talks about moral courage, right? To stand up against injustices, to take action in the interest of unfairness. And this can be standing up for a lot, right? I mean, it can be standing up discrimination and injustice like it said, you know, racism, whatnot. But.
Jen: Mm-hmm. My husband and I have talked about that and we're like, well, what happens if it's something we don't necessarily agree with? And that's when that respecting everybody came into play of would I want my child to be treated that way. And even though I may not agree with whatever their fighting for or moving. Just agree with whatever their and the only word that's going mine is protesting or fighting for anything like that. That's not one of my core values. I'm still going to respect them enough to say, you know what, guys, that is their core value. That is their belief and they have the right to that belief, yeah.
Hilary: You know in this article I'm going to read a few things because I think it's really helpful, but it talks about exactly what you're saying. It says as to why cultivating integrity is so difficult. It says, you know, we have to use the term that it involves doing the right thing. But like you said, the right thing for one person is not necessarily the right thing for right. And so we can, you know, think I am standing up for what I believe. And this is the right choice. But that might look very different then someone else. It says here. But this is important. I think it says it's not enough to allow different values to coexist. Integrity means preventing harm to others. Taking a stand against injustice and supporting equal rights. Because I think what you're saying here is that we may have different values, right? We may have different opinions on different things in life and that's OK. And it is OK to disagree with other people, although that is an incredibly hard thing for our society these days. But it is OK for us to take a stand on different views, views that others may oppose. But I think when you take it down to the core. It also means that making sure that everyone is safe, everyone is being treated respectfully and equally, if at all possible, right. And making sure that that injustice isn't happening. So, I do, I think behind everything you believe, I think there's a core foundation that I think as a society we all can still believe in. That we still need to follow.
Jen: Yeah, right. It's just a political season. So, which we can all do. That. That would be fabulous because. Life could be a little bit easier if we can just all say, OK, you believe in that candidate. I believe in this candidate you have the right to believe in that and that's great.
Hilary: Exactly. But the bottom line is that regardless of whether you like this person or you like this person, I think we both want the best for America. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the foundation, right? Is that we both want America, given we are in America, obviously I know some of you are not. But I think that's that underlying foundations that we both want America to be a happy, thriving, safe place to live now, whether we are agree or disagree with what leaders going to offer to us, that's one thing. But I think that foundation, That core stays the same.
Jen: And I think this is something that we need to teach our kids, our youth, because they're learning about this stuff younger and younger. And I remember my stepdaughter getting arguments are heated, you know, emotional discussions about. The last you know, presidential election. And they need to know. That it's OK that. Their friend may have. And they need to stand up for that person's right to have that opinion. So, it's just not us adults. I think it's kids that need to learn that as well.
Hilary: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was one of the suggestions that it offered in this article, the one specifically. Offering solutions for, in school education, but it talked about. You know, as educators, finding those opportunities to have those open and honest discussions. And so I've talked about, you know, discussing books that have dilemmas and sitting down with your students and saying, well, how do you feel about this and how do you feel about that? You know, having that open debate. It talked about discussing fictional characters and historical figures that, you know, were we're in the midst of making a complex choice and what that choice needed to be. But, you know, I think outside of the school setting, we can do that with our kids. We can bring up a news article or make mention of something that's happening in our world and saying, hey, how do you feel about that? Can you see why they would feel this way? And these people would feel the opposing way. Like yeah, it's tricky when there's something where we have individuals on opposing sides, but we can respect those opposing sides. And so I think even just discussing that as a family and helping kids to know it's not always just a black and white. Yep, scenario yeah.
Jen: And it's all OK to stand up for your friends that are maybe have a different opinion. We need to make. Sure, this is safe. This is a safe place for all of us to share our opinions.
Hilary: I have a program that I teach to youth and one of the things that we talk about in that program we talk about developing a strong conscience and I and I do this with our with high schoolers, but we go over a different a few different moral dilemmas, if you will. And so one of my favorites that I have these high schoolers that take a stance on is. If you are set the stage, if you were invited to a barbecue that's across town. You're supposed to bring ketchup because you're an awful cook, so nobody trusts you to make anything else but buy ketchup, right? And so you get in your car to head to the barbecue and you realize that you are ketchup less. But you're real lucky because you're going to drive past the McDonald's. On the way. That was. That's ketchup, right? There's a ketchup. And so I posed the dilemma. Is it OK to run into McDonald's and just grab a few handfuls of ketchup packets without purchasing anything? And it's always interesting to hear these students argue back and forth on well, I mean, I have spent enough money at McDonald's to justify taking some ketchup packets or, well, ketchup packets are free technically, right? Or, well, if they're sitting out to the public, I feel like that's public access. And then there's many that are opposing and saying, hey, stealing is stealing, regardless of whether it comes in a very small package or not. You didn't buy anything. You can't take it.
Jen: Yeah.
Hilary: And so, you know, the point of that, that exercise that I offer with those students is not to necessarily say, hey, this is the right answer, this is the wrong answer. You guys made a good choice, and you made a bad choice. But the whole point of that activity is to say there's a lot of decision making that we have to do as individuals. And sometimes it's hard, right? Because like I said. There's not a black or. White, there's a whole lot. Of Gray in the middle and that Gray can really be a dependent on what we're going to do here and. And so it's always intriguing to see these kids stretch their brains a little. Bit as they try to say hey, where exactly? Do my morals and values stand? How do I feel about certain things and? Do I get swayed when other kids are making different choices? That's what's always the most intriguing in that exercises. If you have the majority of kids, go and stand. On one side. And then you have a few kids on the opposing side, and sometimes those kids will stand strong and other times they'll slowly trickle over to the majority. And so, you know, if nobody was watching, if I wasn't there or if their teacher wasn't there in the room or would that be different. Yeah. I don't know.
Jen: don't know.
Hilary: But it's hard. It's hard when you have other eyes that are that are there observing, possibly judging to make that difference.
Jen: But it's also hard to be. The only one left over. And it's hard to stick to your values and have that integrity of no. This is my core value. This is my belief and that's tough.
Hilary: Yeah. You know, one thing that I talked a lot about in this article as well too in regards to school and teaching integrity in school is just getting kids involved in service and project based learning because it's one thing to talk about integrity, right? And it's an entirely different thing to actually practice it. And so if you feel very strongly about something get your kids involved in that, you know, and maybe it's. You know, maybe it's a. Helping with the hunger situation in our world, you know and we can sit and we can lecture and talk to our kids about that until all ends of the night. But it's a very different experience to take them to a food bank or to take them to a homeless shelter to say, hey, we're going to get our hands dirty and we're going to help these people because that's what we do. As we help them with support and we provide service and so. You know providing service is never a. Bad thing. It's never going to be a bad choice, but I think providing service in regards to these areas that may be those areas that we're trying to teach those values that we want to enforce they can see that.
Jen: It's funny you bring that up. There's. This is just a silly example, but the show impractical jokers. There's one episode where he is helping at a like a food pantry and he decided he was going to eat the food he was supposed to be packing up for the homeless? And it was just interesting to see who was OK. I'm just going to look at him and shake my head, and then I'm going to say something. And it was just interesting to sit back and watch that play out, even though it was a silly little thing. And a joke, but it was interesting. It's hard to stand up for what's wrong sometimes.
Hilary: Oh completely I you know as I was reading this article I was thinking about my son. And he had a situation a few years back where? A good friend of his was having a difficult time in school. Because of that, my son had almost kind of become. The referee, if you will, in regards to like the school playground. Because oftentimes he would be the one in the middle of trying to diffuse arguments and. Which was an incredibly difficult position for him to be in as a youth, to have to stand up and to have to speak on behalf of the entire 4th grade class, right? I mean, we stress to youth, the power and the position of being, you know, a bystander you know and if you see something, do something about it no. It's really easy to say. Yep, it's another thing. To actually do that. There's a lot of fear associated. Well what? If I speak up and I become the target and now not only are they bullying that person, but now they're bullying me too, you know, and so it's definitely easier said than done. You know, we had to have some hard conversations with my son about. I get it. I know what you're supposed to do, but yeah, that's hard. Yeah, that's hard to speak up. In front of everyone. And to say, hey, don't do that. I mean, he knew what he was supposed to be doing, he knew what was right. But when you're in the moment, it's easier to watch and to kind of slink away would be like. Oh take care of me myself and I umm. So it takes a bold person.
Jen: It does.
Hilary: And I think it takes time to develop that. You know, I think if we don't necessarily see that quality and skill in our children yet at an early age, I think that's fairly normal, you know.
Jen: I think we need to be good examples of it. They need to see it in practice.
Hilary: And you know, that's one of the things that it mentioned as well in this article is that and we've heard this, right, we've ranted about this in our podcast multiple times that a lot of what our children do and a lot of the decisions that they make boil down to what they've seen us do. And so are we willing to do that in situations. Are we willing to do that with our friends and our neighbors? And even in our own family, you know, because they're watching us and they're taking, you know, allowing us to take that lead and following suit so. That makes me feel not so great about myself.
Jen: So not true.
Hilary: I think we all have work to improve on so.
Jen: Absolutely.
Hilary: And that's OK, right? And. I think it's OK to admit to children, you know what? Maybe after the fact when we didn't stand up for what we should have to sit down with your kids and to say hey, do you know when we were in that situation and that person made that mean comment. I should have said something and I didn't. I was scared. Yeah. Next time I'm. I'm going to hopefully be a little bit more brave and a little bit more willing to speak up, but I think if we can have those types of conversations with our kids too, even just opening up that awareness. Factor I think that that is a great first start to be able to see that.
Jen: I still have a situation with my niece that I think back on of. I should have said something. I just. I mean, I remember I told her mom when I got home. If you need to talk to her ice-skating coach because her she was. My niece was very worried about modesty and she had a very low neck on her ice-skating costume. And she's like, I just don't like this. It doesn't feel comfortable and the coach pulled it all the way down and said it's not going to do this. It's OK and we didn't say anything. I was so furious. And so I went home and I talked to my sister and told her, and I mean, I still ever once. I'm so sorry I didn't say something. Just I should have said it.
Hilary: But I'm sure even experiencing that mistake in your life has given you more drive to do things differently. So I feel like even if those times come for us and even for our kids then then say hey, that happened and I can tell you're feeling a little bit of remorse because of that, so what can we do differently next time? You know and clearly that was years ago, right? That's something that. You're still holding on to and so I think we'll learn from those experiences when they come and make action, so that hopefully next time they'll be a little bit more aware and more comfortable and be able to do that.
Jen: All right. Well, friends, thank you so much for coming and listening today. And we hope that you've learned a little bit about integrity and how you can help your child have integrity as well. We hope that you can be patient and kind with yourselves and we will see you next week.
Thank you for listening to The Parents Place. If you would like to reach us, you can at parents at thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly - The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is thefamilyplaceutah.org if you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes. We'd love to see you there.
Episode Resources: https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/four_ways_to_help_students_cultivate_integrity https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fixing-families/201707/6-steps-leading-life-integrity
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