Have you ever found yourself spiraling in negative thoughts? Sometimes it may feel like all we think about is the negative while others seem to only think of the positive. Our thoughts greatly impact our actions. Today, Analee Pacheco is here to guide us through what reframing is, and some steps on how to do it. The New Year is a great time to start reframing so we can do our best!
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place Podcast. We have a special guest with us today. We see her quite often, but she's still special and she's still a guest. This is Analee and she is one of our clinicians with us here at the Family Place. And so we love having her here. We were just joking before that we've tried to snag her for many, many months to be a guest here on our podcast because she is so knowledgeable and in what she does so we are thrilled that we have you, we got you here today, so how long have you been at the Family Place with us again?
Analee: Yeah, it's great to be here, and I've been at the Family Place for five years, I just had my five-year anniversary.
Hilary: Nice and you work in our therapy department, but I know you do very specific things within our therapy department. So, tell us all that you do.
Analee: Sure. I'm a clinical supervisor in our therapy department and so I supervise part of our therapy team, especially focusing on those that are working towards getting their licensure and helping our interns that come in every year.
Hilary: OK, she's one of our head honchos here that we're so glad that you are here.
Analee: I am definitely not that.
Hilary: Well we are glad you are part of our team. What, what interest did you like to pursue a therapy career as well as you were going to school?
Analee: It's still interesting to me that I landed in therapy because it was not what I had envisioned for myself, but I always knew that I was interested in people from a very young age. I always love to people watch and being the youngest of a big family, there's always lots to watch and so I knew I wanted to work with people and so thinking very differently. But yeah, I think therapy came in my direction, just through figuring out what I wanted to study in school and then opportunities that that came my way and leaning towards. Yeah, the flexibility of the job as well as being able to really help people. And learn new skills and then I've been doing it for like 15 years so.
Hilary: Nice. And we've talked about our therapy department here at the Family Place before, but for those audience members that are listening and thinking, I adore her, she needs to be my therapist. Just to remind our audience as to how one can access the services of the Family Place. Whether that is in person virtual outside of Utah, inside of Utah, kind of just go over just the basics of how one can participate in these services.
Analee: Yeah. With therapy, it's really just as simple as calling the main number and saying, you know, I need therapy or my child needs therapy or what do I do to get into therapy? And they can set you up with a screening right then, or have someone call you back. It's really quite an easy process now as processes change and evolve and simplify and so that’s all it takes, is a phone call
Hilary: And it's usually not that easy. We're so glad that we have it that way here.
Jen: What states. Because they know we have a therapist in Florida. I know we've been trying to get into Idaho. So, what states can we do?
Analee: Yeah. So, our therapist in Florida. She's another clinical supervisor, so she's able to do some telehealth clients here in Utah. But my guess is she's also licensed in Florida as well, and so, but she is very part time and does mostly the supervision piece. There are a couple of us, myself included, that are licensed in Idaho as well. And then one of our marriage and family therapists is licensed in Idaho as well. So, the thing with therapy is not necessarily where the clinician is, but where the client is and where they're based, so if we have a client in Idaho and they're wanting therapy and telehealth therapy, but they're going to be in their home, then it would need to be a clinician that's licensed in Idaho.
Hilary: OK, so because there are some specifics that we'll need to check on, just if you are interested in our therapy department, our therapy services at the Family Place like you said. Just call, we'll have one of our receptionists or someone on our team walk through that process and help figure that out and if for whatever reason, the therapeutic services at the time and place can't be accessed will help you find somewhere else. So connected to other resources out there. OK, this is a really good topic and perfect for January. I was thinking about it and I was thinking about January and I got to ask curious because January to me is I think there are people that love it and there are people that hate it. And I think that you know you have those people that are so excited for this new year and new goals and new challenges and. And then there's others. They're like bag it I don't want anything to do with that. Why even bother? Because I know that I'm just going to drop whatever I decided in about a week. And so, I think January is a time that has. There's a lot of positivity and there is a lot of optimism. But it's January and January is also really hard. The holidays are over for me, like the fun is wrapping up they're going. Back to a regular routine kids are back in school and it's cold. And so, I think that there are a lot of individuals that struggle this time of the year. And so we're going to talk a little bit about reframing our negative thoughts, which is why I think this is a perfect place to discuss this.
Jen: Because their little activity this morning I was like “Oh my gosh”. I have to think about what I want to change and what I want to do better and Nay Nay. John made me do it couple weeks ago. And I'm like or not it wasn't even a couple weeks ago, a couple of nights ago like. It don't want to think about what I need to change and do better and but.
Hilary: Well, I mean, we all know, change is hard change pushes us out of our comfort zone. It requires us to do something different. Which we don't like to be pushed out of our comfort zone. We like to do things the way that we know how to do them the way that feels comfortable and so see.
Analee: I'm a big fan of ordinary.
Jen: Well, I'm over here, right? Yeah. So maybe I need to reframe my negatives. This will be a good one for me.
Hilary: So, let's start with this we use this word, reframe. Why don't we start at the beginning. And just kind of define what that word means.
Analee: So, reframing as far as how we use it in therapy quite often is linked to a therapy modality, cognitive behavioral therapy and reframing our negative thoughts is more just that. Sometimes when we get in those negative thoughts, it can increase our anxiety it. Increased feelings of depression and some of those problematic things that we might experience. And so, if we're able to reframe those thoughts into something more helpful then we can just have more capacity within our mind and body to address whatever it is that's. You know on our plate.
Hilary: OK, so I'm making the assumption having negative thoughts is OK, it's normal. But it's just. How we go about responding to those negative thoughts, I mean negative thoughts makes it seem like we're that's a bad thing. Like it sounds like should we embrace it should. We steer away from it. What do we do with negative thoughts?
Analee: I think we just notice when our thoughts are negative and when it's not being helpful in a situation. If we're starting to notice that our negative thoughts cause us to maybe spiral into more negative thoughts and more depressive feelings or more anxiety. Then it's a good time to recognize that that's happening. And maybe take a minute to assess what those thoughts are really telling us and if they're true.
Hilary: This is going to go off the cuff. So, but I think about individuals in my life and I think about how I just know some people in my life that are incredibly positive. They're those people that just can always find like the light and the darkness, you know, and they just walk through always being able to see the good. I'm not one of those people, I want to be and I'm working on it. But I how often I mean. With negative thoughts is there a normal as to like how often we see negative like, our feeling negative thoughts versus positive thoughts. How do we become one of those more positive people in our lives. How can we be that one? That one that I am continually seeking to be in our lives?
Jen: I like those ones, but I also like it when they have a bad day. So, then you're.
Hilary: So, you can be Like, alright, you are normal, you are human. And is there genetics to that? Are people just born with like a more positive nature. I know that's about 5 questions all at once so, go.
Analee: The few thoughts off the top of my head are everyone is different. Yeah, right. And we all have different ways of dealing with challenges or problems or relationships, and we all have our learned experience. You know, growing up in our particular homes. With our families and maybe what we've learned is we've gotten older. So not every two people are the same. And so, to not judge ourselves and compare ourselves to someone else's, I think important because we have our strengths and they have theirs, yeah.
Jen: I always make fun of my mother because she always says don't think negatively about yourself. I'm like mom, where do you think I learned that I learned it from you. I love you mom. But, that we, its not good to compare ourselves to other people. But its so hard not to do, but especially with social media. There's my soapbox, I think that it comes up almost every other podcast. But yep, you see only the good. I'd love to see people bad sometimes. Yeah. Just to normalize it.
Hilary: OK. So then let's walk through this process of how to go about reframing that. So I see something on social media and maybe I look at this beautiful image of a family decorating their Christmas tree and their home is clean and their children are smiling and everybody looks beautiful. And I've just spent the last 10 minutes fighting with my own. So how do I take this negative thought of, I'm not a good mom to reframe that.
Analee: I do have a kind of an exercise that maybe we could go through to help us practice the skills of how to reframe. OK and how to say for example you ask your kid, hey, can you come unload the dishwasher for me and you hear the words no if that's ever happened to anyone else, maybe I have to love him. But you hear the words no and in the my head I hear why don't they listen to me? What have I done as a mother to have kids that tell me no? Am I an awful parent? I hate that they don't listen to me. Why don't they respect me? I’m the worst? How do I get to this place right and it just goes on and on and this happens in just a matter of seconds. All of these negative thoughts with one no. And so, when I when I feel those thoughts and I look back to when I have experienced that and I know that I have because I wrote down this experience for myself, but I feel overwhelmed. I feel ashamed. I feel like a failure. And all of these emotions that are really heavy and uncomfortable, right? That's what I feel when I have those thoughts and when I'm in that mind body state, feeling all of those thoughts from hearing the word no from one of my kids. I act in a way that is I start micromanaging. I get nitpicking on everyone. I start yelling more. I start lecturing right. Because I want them to learn to be helpful. I want that so badly and so I start to lecture. And I have all of these behaviors that you know are shown in my family when this happens that I don't really like, and so that's there's a cognitive behavioral triangle, and that's what I just explained. There's an event that happens. I have these initial negative thoughts. Feelings associated with those thoughts and then I act in a certain way because of them, right. And they kind of just go on and on.
Jen: It’s that shape again, the triangle.
Analee: But how to reframe it using that same CBT triangle is OK, so if my kid comes. I asked my kid, and I'm probably standing at the sink, right, and I'm ready to do dishes, but the dishwasher is full. So, then I'm yelling across the house. Hey, can you come and unload the dishwasher? And I hear the word no. I might think to myself in a when I'm trying to reframe OK, maybe I need to have a different approach. Maybe they didn't hear me correctly. Wow to be thirteen again how would that be?
Hilary: And I think you're so busy. When you're really not that that's what I really think about mine.
Jen: Maybe I need to go to the room. Maybe they need to see my face instead of just my voice.
Analee: Exactly I Need to change my approach, yeah. Let's go face to face. Maybe they're in the middle of something that I don't know because I'm not. In the same room.
Hilary: But they see as very important to us may not feel perfect to them it is important.
Analee: So, when I change my thoughts to why did they say no to me all the time to, maybe I need to change my approach and actually go in there and see what's happening and ask again. Then when I have those types of thoughts, I feel more empowered as a parent, I have more options. I feel a little more capable. I feel hopeful, but maybe I can get some help. I feel just like I have more control of the situation, more calm, more patient, right. All of those feelings. And when I'm in that kind of mind body state thinking of this experience, then I have the flexibility in my thinking to actually go into the other room, find out what's happening, ask them face to face to come do it now, please. And then, I just have more ability to create cooperation instead of coercion with that reframe.
Jen: And there's no hard feelings then.
Analee: Right. And then I don't end up feeling guilty and ashamed of how I've treated my kids and my family. Right. I just don't experience those when I'm able to reframe and be a little bit more curious, more patient and more calm in my in my mind and in my body in that moment.
Hilary: So as one is practicing the initial stages of reframing, maybe this is something we are not used to doing. We're trying for the first time. Is there power in like saying these this out loud to ourself and writing it down? Is it just work for most people just kind of going through it and saying it in our head. How am I feeling? What's going on? How do I tend to respond? I'm just thinking, OK, I'm going to start day one. I'm going to try this. And I've never done this before. What's the best way to like begin that implementation?
Analee: I know that when I've worked with clients that are starting this skill for the first time, it's helpful to think of past experiences like we just did and practice reframing them, and maybe write it down right, draw your triangle, write down your thoughts, your feelings afterwards, how you acted your behavior was. And then reframe those thoughts into something that's more helpful, not necessarily more positive, but something that's more helpful, right? And how would you feel if those were your thoughts in that moment? And express, you know, like some possible feelings you would have had. And how do you act when you feel that way? And then those behaviors that you've experienced before, right? And so that's helpful to do some practicing on things that you've experienced maybe in the past instead of working on maybe some in the heat of the moment. I'm going to try to figure this out right here, right then, because then you have some knowledge that you can do that and that you've practiced.
Jen: When you're in the heat of the moment, you're not going to think about it.
Analee: We know kids don't, so. Why would we?
Jen: So your brain's not working right? And so yeah, doing it at a positive time is a lot more helpful. Because then you can practice it and then hopefully it just comes a little bit more naturally when a harder thing does come.
Analee: Right. And you're going to get more of yourself in the way you choose to react and respond to whatever the challenge is. You'll be more aligned with your values and how you want to, you know address the issue.
Hilary: I'm assuming this is a skill we can teach our kids. As well too, and help them learn this process. Do we explain it in the same way to young children and kind of have them go through the same process of. Let's talk about things that happened in the past does it look like a similar situation?
Analee: Yeah, I think so especially I mean I do the same whether I'm working with adult clients or whether I'm working with younger clients. We practice, you know, the same the same. And everyone learns differently. You were asking before, like, do we draw it out? Do we think about it? Like, how do we do it? Everyone learns differently, too. So, if it's helpful to draw a triangle and you, you draw it out, then great. But if you can think about that process in your head, that's great too. You just want to talk it out with someone. That works as well, so there's no right or wrong. Best way worst way, it depends on the way you like to learn and the same with kids. You know, we know our kids best so what's going to help? Them and it's a concept that it's fairly easy to understand. There's not any big therapy clinical language associated with what are your thoughts? What? Are your feelings how do you act? In that way, so anyone can learn it?
Hilary: So, we're even talking younger I mean like, is there an age where you would start? Practicing this skill.
Analee: I think developmentally you have to realize if kids are able to really in the moment or even after, think about their thinking. That's a pretty sophisticated ability. And so, you need to make sure that you're not putting that expectation on kids that just aren't able to develop mentally, right to think about our thing. And so elementary aged kids, I think, are starting to explore that a little bit more and be able to think about what was I thinking about then how did that make me feel right?
Jen: I watched my niece the other day, her little girl she's 2 1/2 and she was not happy with her dad. And so my niece went over and grabbed her hand. I said now I know you're angry with Daddy right now. And then I didn't hear her because she started walking off with her daughter. And I'm like, well, how great is that she is, naming that feeling in that moment, giving her permission to be angry. And she walked off just fine. But I'm like, how great is that that she's starting that young to name those feelings. So when she can think more outside of the box and back and forth and things like that that she has names for those feelings. So, I think it's good to I mean, even if it's for you practicing is another time to practice for when the bigger times come and it's normal for you. I was really impressed with her.
Hilary: She should teach the rest of us
Analee: Yeah because those early ages our reality is that what the parents tell them it is right.
Hilary: This is a silly question. Are there times because I'm thinking. There are definitely times where I know there are times where reframing could really help and but I also think there are times where I'm like I just want to be mad. I don't to want to process? I don't want problems solved, just want to feel all the feelings at
this moment and then I and then we'll be OK. I mean, are there times where that where we can allow kind of sad and hurtful and negative thoughts and then move forward. Is that appropriate in a time and place.
Analee: Sure, feeling you're feelings is ok. OK, as far as, like the therapy world, we want people to feel their feelings and experience that. What we want is to be able to think about how long and how are you able to sit with discomfort, whether it's anger or frustration. And if our window of tolerance for those kinds of things is pretty wide, then we can know for ourselves that we can feel those hard feelings and then move on. But it's when that window of tolerance is really short and really narrow or small, that we feel those hard feelings, and then we react in ways that then create guilt and shame and maybe problems for us that we didn't necessarily want.
Jen: I remember hearing someone refer to that. Sitting in those hard feelings and being upset and frustrated. And he was like extending that and his wife finally said, when are you going to stop being negative or something like that and get to work? Sometimes you do have to have someone just to. OK. How long are you going to go? Lets get to work! I know you can solve this problem.
Analee: I think that's where we have to just notice that within ourselves is this negative thinking helping me with the issue that's in front of me. Is me thinking about all of these negative things? Is that reality? Are the thoughts that I'm having actually true? Am I believing in these thoughts that maybe are distorted or coming from a place that's not helpful? Right.
Jen: I would say for me most of. The time it is a bunch of lies you just need to tell the lies to be quiet
Analee: Exactly. And that's where the reframing come in it's really helpful
Jen: Somebody told me to name it
Analee: Yeah
Jen: I can't remember. Maybe it was on a podcast, I can't remember, but to name it and say, you know, be quiet, miles. Just leave me alone. Because it is that inner voice that just going on and on and on. So it's like be quiet.
Hilary: Yeah, well, I've heard before at this this idea that. Thought is just a thought, right? And I can like you said, naming and saying this is a thought this this thought doesn't own me this you know like. But I get to this site like I can think it and then I can remove it and I can move forward like you said. But it doesn't have to define me and it doesn't have to take action if I don't want it to take action so.
Analee: Yeah, because the consequence of going outside our window of tolerance is we're either hyper aroused, right? Then we're irritable, we're yelling. We're all of those things that I tend to so so we’re Hypo aroused. Meaning we don't know what to do, and we're kind of frozen in the moment or we don't have the energy to to deal with the problem. So we can also notice within ourselves. How is my body feeling in this moment and is it helpful for me, You know, to work through this problem or this challenge, and we need to think about those things when we're not in the moment, which is why practicing reframing is so helpful.
Jen: I'd like a therapist.
Hilary: That's why we need an Analee in our home. At all times.
Jen: And I need to practice that but. Then you know you get home. And you get in life and you don't do it. You need to schedule it almost.
Analee: And you're in the ARC Grow curriculum that you do in education, and they talk about their push buttons, right? And if we can recognize what our push buttons are and then practice reframing when those buttons are pushed, it's going to set us up for success.
Hilary: I love how this concept focuses on myself, my reaction and what I have control over. Because I think so often, like I said in the scenario with the dishwasher, it's easy for us to put the blame on the child. And as you were reframing, you were saying things about yourself. And so and I think it's so easy for us to be like. That child needs to or that child is being such a, but I think it's a good process to say, OK, What do I have control over? I have control over myself and my thoughts and my actions. Whether or not they say yes or no, even after I've asked kindly. I'm still going to focus on what my response should be and now I can be helpful at the moment. So, I think that's a powerful reminder because like you said, even we might go through that process of reframing. And go to our child and look him in the eye and say, sweetie, you know, I really need your help. I need your help right now. Would you please come and unload the dishwasher and maybe we still get a second no. Which is hard, right? Because you're thinking. I was calm. I did what I was supposed to do and yet still. So how do you, where do you go from there? When you feel like you've taken that step. And it still may not be working.
Analee: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's. That's a hard one to get to right, because then we're at another choice point. Do we then start lecturing and yelling and micromanaging, or do we follow through with whatever our, you know, mode of discipline is or, you know, how can we? We're at that choice point like how can we still encourage cooperation without coercion? And that's really hard. And my family knows that I am not perfect at it. So just because we’re therapists doesn’t mean in
life that we're able to think about these things, it takes a lot of practice and figuring thigs out afterwards and lots of apologies, right? And so, at every choice point that you come across as a parent, you can then do, you know, a reframe if you need to or you can move on. And how do you, you know, if they say no, then what is it that your family does when those kids are not compliant or cooperative or wanting to do.
Jen: I think that's when those choices are consequences come into play. Okay I'm more worried if you don't do it right now, but it needs to be done by this time and if it's not done by that time, then whatever they're doing and the reason why they're not doing it right now, that's when you take that away and say if it's playing with video games. OK, then if it's not done by this time, then you can't play video games until it's done. So hard. It's another thing that you have to practice. And I think if you haven't grown up with that kind of a thing, that's a hard thing to change.
Analee: It really is that is, and I think to allowing your kids to make their choice. And this is hard as well and respecting the choice that they make, right. If they're choosing the consequence over being cooperative and doing a chore.
Jen: Yeah, let him live that
Analee: Yeah, without the lecture and without this and that, and respect the choice that they made, whether it was the consequence or whether it was to come and unload the dishwasher that takes 2 seconds. I mean, come on. But it's really easy for us to say those thoughts that are in our head.
Hilary: Ohh goodness, you've given us such great tips. I love this. I love this idea. So, kind of as we wrap up our time together. Any final thoughts? Things that you would add to our to our discussion for our audience?
Analee: I think just one last thing is to remember that reframing a negative thought doesn't mean that you need to reframe it with a positive one. Because it's not always a positive experience that you're dealing with or, you know, have on your plate, but it's changing your negative thought into something that's more helpful. And to not get stuck into the idea that we have to be positive all the time. Yeah, right.
Jen: Because Jen's going to sit back and wait for you to have a bad day just so I can want to make sure that everyone’s human.
Hilary: Now that we know that Jens thinking this all the time.
Analee: But I think we can all recognize when we get stuck in that loop of thinking and then it's creating more anxiety within us and more. Those depressive feelings, and we can recognize that we don't want to be there in that moment. What would be more helpful to think? Instead of what I'm telling myself right now.
Hilary: I think that that's that. I'm like, I'm still processing that thought and I think that that is because I think sometimes when you have this, when you have this discussion on reframing and. And positivity in general, I think positivity can be hard because like you said, we kind of put. This this expectation that. It has. Everything is good. It always has to be good. Find a way to make it be good and sometimes life just it's really crappy and I think it's OK to be like this is a really crappy situation, right? And there's nothing that can take this crappy situation away. It's still going to be crappy, but what can I do in the moment? That, like you said, might feel more helpful than what I'm doing right here. So, I think that's powerful to just embrace. The idea that it's hard, right? And it might be hard for a while. But what am I going to do?
Analee: Yeah and challenge thoughts. Challenge those thoughts that are telling us that we are a certain way or that are relationships should be at a certain way . And what's the evidence? That what I'm telling myself is true. Chances are it's not, there's no evidence. So, what's something that's more true? Right, that's going to help me respond. Yeah, better.
Jen: Let me just think about myself years ago. I'm glad I can say years ago now just being angry all the time and in that you're negative all the time. That is not a fun place to be, and so I lived for years in that space and it's a lonely space because no one wants to be around you. So I think reframing and learning how to do it. I'm not perfect, but I have a plan. I made-up a plan. So, when I do get in those situations, I can activate my plan and. Yeah, it's more helpful, but I do need. To be better, right framing. Those negative thoughts, and that's a good thing to start, you know, coming in this new year, I have still a month that I can be who I am and then January 1st I can start. Let's rephrase this.
Hilary: Get it all out. Get it all out of your system.
Analee: Give it out with us now.
Jen: And then start over January. That's a good. That's a great. Goal to have it's something that.
Analee: Yeah. And it's not the idea of starting over, right. What can I learn to enhance or yeah to, you know, change things even just a little bit.
Hilary: Well, because it's like you said, we're not starting over because one of the first practical tips we want to use is looking back on situations in the past and learning from those situations. So, I like this idea that it's not necessarily here's my January 1st. Here's the clean slate. Forget everything I've done before. Like, we're dwelling. Those experiences help us become better. So, I like that like utilizing those as our kind of stepping ground.
Jen: Well, thank you, Analee, for coming today. Really appreciate it gave us a lot of good food for thought and hopefully we can put it in practice. Maybe I'll put a sign on my little desk that says reframing. Yeah, Glad we got you. Here and you just might be coming. Back for other topics so. We thank our listeners for coming today. We hope that you were able to gain some information that you can apply to your life and we hope that you can remember to be kind and patient with yourselves and we will see you next week?
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place podcast. If you would like to reach us, you can parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daily – The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is the familyplaceutah.org if you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we'd love to see you there.
Subject Resources:
Guides to Reframing
Helping kids reframe thoughts
The Family Place Therapy
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