September is Suicide Awareness Month and Cari Phillips is here to help us understand HOW we can talk about Suicide and why it is so important to have these conversations. Cari heads the Mental Health First Aid Program at the Family Place and helps us know how to use mental health first aid much like we would first aid in crisis situations.
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Trigger Warning
Hey listeners, this episode contains discussions on sensitive topics that may be difficult to hear and may not be suitable for young ears. Check our show notes for more specific details of what is covered in this episode. Take care of yourself.
Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast. We are excited to have you here and we have a guest with us who is a guest that we see quite often in our office, but we're still excited that she is our guest. This is Cari and she oversees our Mental Health First Aid Program. And she is such a remarkable person to have on our team. So, so smart, so intelligent, and has such a passion for what we're going to talk about today, so. I'm thrilled that we roped her into this. Whether it was voluntary or, you know, dragging you here. But regardless, either way or here, I'm going to let her. Introduce yourself a little bit and tell us a little bit about who you are and your background and then if you want to share with our audience a little bit. The Mental Health First aid program in general so that they are aware because I know we've talked about it to a small extent here on the podcast, but I'm sure that there are many that aren't familiar with it and would want to know. So, tell us a little bit about you.
Cari: Yeah, absolutely. I am excited to be here. My name is Cari Phillips like she said. And I'm the Mental Health First Aid project director here at The Family Place. And I recently graduated with my Master's degree in Communication Studies and my emphasis at USU was in intercultural communication as well as mental health advocacy. So, I was really excited, and I knew that I wanted to be part of nonprofit work before I got this job. But then when I found out that there was a position specifically about mental health advocacy, it just felt perfect, and the stars aligned for me to be here. So, I am really grateful. to be in this position, and as she noted, mental health first aid is a program from the National Council for Mental well-being. And just like you can get certified in CPR or other types of first aid, you know what to do if someone has a physical health challenge. It helps you know, how to respond if someone around you has a mental health challenge. And this is very common in our society. Very important one in five adults in the United States is diagnosed with a mental health challenge every year, so that only includes those who are diagnosed. And it's really important that we're aware of how to understand that someone might be struggling. Around us and then also had to respond to that and get them the resources that will be the most helpful. So that's what the program seeks to address.
Hilary: You know, we'll. We'll dive into statistics a. little bit, but I think it's awesome we have this resource, especially now. Because it seems we need it now more than ever. So, I'm so grateful for this. Now, where our audiences both here locally as well as throughout the state and throughout the United States and even in the world, how can one access these resources?
Cari: So, there is a website called mentalhealthfirstaid.org and it gives you access to any of the trainings that are happening across the United States. There are mental health first aid programs and other countries as well. But specifically, here in the valley and for the state of Utah, we are able to offer mental health first aid for free. So, if you go to our website or to the mental health First aid website, you would be able to select our class and sign up for it and take it for free, which is just a fabulous resource.
Hilary: And virtual and in person? A combination of both?
Cari: Yes, yes. So, we have three different ways to offer it. There's full in person. There's a blended option where you do some pre course work on your own time and then come in for the second part. And then we have a full virtual option where you do some course work on your own. Time and then join us for a live virtual session.
Hilary: Now I'm just thinking here. This is information that obviously I think any of us as community members can benefit from. But I'm thinking of school personnel, I'm thinking that religious leaders, I'm thinking there is a large group of individuals that should be trained in this on a consistent basis. Is that happening in most places? Or are we still working on You know, getting that ball rolling?
Cari: So, I would say yes and yes, and I receive emails all the time from religious leaders, from school personnel all across the country who are looking for these resources, who are excited to take this class. Here in Cache Valley, we're still trying to get the ball rolling. Before I was in this position. I'd never heard of Mental Health First Aid and so as a project director, that's something that I'm working to change. I want people to be aware that it exists and then know how to get access to it. So that's the direction that we're moving right now.
Jen: I know with the time commitment because it is a time commitment. It's an. 8-hour course. But I think on. The flip side, 8 hours versus not being able to help somebody. You can't compare the two and so if we can, I think if we can put that mindset aside of, oh my gosh, that's eight hours long to I can save someone's life. Then we I think we can get a lot more people to do it. I mean, I think about CPR and when you go, I don't know, I haven't done it and that Red Cross for a long time. But I remember it being an all-day thing and so. It's just as important.
Cari: Absolutely. Yeah. I think there's this sense of. Oh well, I should. Be able to get the training that I need in less time than that and you know absolutely we can do shorter training and I'm happy to go out in the community and help with those. But there are just a number of resources that we're able to provide in the full training that it can't be provided in a shorter period of time. And I think it's so empowering when you know someone in my life is struggling and I know how to help them.
Jen: And I think that the shorter ones you don't get certified. And so really, I mean I feel like all the certifications people could put on their resume that are applicable to people. Then the better off you are. I mean, I look at that when I hire. I think that certificate goes far.
Hilary: Well and I'm glad you bring up that statistic because you know, for many of the jobs that I've been involved in, it's been a requirement to receive CPR, first aid certification. And I remember being young for children and thinking. I'll go through the motions. I'll just do it, but chances are I'm never going to have to perform CPR or The Heimlich maneuver on anyone but I'll, I'll. Check off the. Box because it's a requirement and. I remember having this moment when I first had kids, thinking I need. To be prepared. Because if this little one starts choking on something while he's eating in my home, it's going to be up to me to perform the necessary skills. And I think you say that statistic one in five. Yes, I mean everyone probably knows someone. So, I think if you think about it that way, this isn't just a skill that we're going to check the box because chances are at some point it may help us. No, it will help us because whether you have a child yourself, a family member, a friend, a neighbor. You have someone around you that needs support and assistance, and it may be up to you, to provide that in that time of need.
Cari: And I would also just note that it's so reassuring in that moment, you know, someone comes to you, and they need you and being able to think I've got this. I have the training I need. You know, I was in a car accident the other day. My little brother broke his arm and, you know, scary as that was. Because I'd taken that physical first aid training, I knew how to help him. And in a similar manner, I've had friends come to me who are struggling with things like suicidal ideation and having the knowledge of OK, I've got this. I know how to help this person. It's so empowering and something that I would. It's a gift that I would love to keep giving.
Hilary: And hopefully we'll be able to do that! That's what our hope is. So going along. With the statistics, because I know like I said I think a lot of times we hear this conversation that. You know, mental health and teens and children are dealing with more mental health issues than they ever have before. Let's speak to some of the trends that you know when it comes to an increase in in mental health, and particularly the mental health issues that our teams are dealing with. Is it getting worse? Are we just more aware and talking about it? More particularly with Utah. What does it look like for? Us what do we know?
Cari: Yeah. So, I definitely think that we are doing a better job of understanding that it's happening. So, numbers are being reported at higher levels. However, because of the pandemic, because of increase in social media filtering and just a general sense of isolation. The numbers are increasing. So, in Utah, suicide is the leading cause of death for ages 10 to 24. Yeah. And it's the second leading cause of death from 25 to 35 and in the top five for everyone in the state of Utah. So, you know, are this cause of death that we would hope could be preventable is what is killing many of the people in our state. And I know that nationally it continues to be a problem as well and it affects all demographics and all ages. There's this sense of. Oh, it only happens to people in such and such group. But everybody is affected by this.
Jen: And not only by. The person who was dying by suicide, but it has a ripple effect through family, friends, work. So, the effect is really vast.
Cari: Yeah, absolutely. I was reading a statistic the other day that was seen that the loss of a loved one to suicide has the same level of trauma on the body as someone who experienced a concentration camp. That's how severe it is. And so, it's just a tragic event for everyone involved. And but I want to emphasize that as we're talking about this extremely difficult topic today, that we really want to emphasize the hope for recovery. That, you know, this is something that is tragic, that is sad that we don't like to talk about. But my hope is that because we're able to talk about it, we're going to spread that hope. We're going to spread these resources that can and do save these lives.
Jen: So, you had said something about social filtering and because I'm old. I don't know exactly what that means, so can you explain it? Because I feel like younger people, this probably affects them more than myself because I'm not on social media that much, but. What does that mean?
Cari: Yes, yes, absolutely. I'm so I'll start with another statistic. In the state of Utah, 7 out of 10 teenagers ages 12 to I guess 24 is not a teenager technically but and seven out of 10 meet the criteria for moderate to severe depression. At some point throughout the year. So as researchers have been studying, why is this happening? Why are our teens struggling so much? One of the big causes that they found is on social media. I'm not going to be that person who says that social. Evil and bad, and we need to get rid of it forever because it does really important things. But the other part of it is that we are encouraged to live a filtered life on social media. So, you only see the best parts of people's lives, and usually they've put literal filters on those.
Jen: And that's what I was thinking, literal filters. But it is. You're living in a filtered life. You're only putting on the great things.
Cari: Exactly. You know, you wouldn't look at someone who's going on this fabulous vacation and say, oh, I bet they're struggling with a mental health challenge right now. Or maybe they're fighting with someone in their family, and that's why they felt the need to go on a vacation and get away from there. If we're only seeing the best parts of people's lives. Then it can lead us to feel like, oh, I'm the only one who doesn't have everything together. I'm the only one who isn't chasing all of these amazing dreams.
Jen: I remember when I was first dating my husband and he had friended my sister-in-law and my brother. And he was going during his divorce, he was going through a horrible time. I mean, lots of depression, not a great situation that he was in, but he was documenting on social media. This is I'm not in a good space and for him that was. He got so much back from people reaching out that it really helped him. But I remember. For my family saying. Have you looked at his past posts? It looks like he gets in pretty dark spots. Do you really want to get involved with that? And I thought to myself. You know, he's just speaking the truth. And if we all spoke the truth Because we all have hard days or dark days or whatever they are. I think social media could be an amazing platform. Instead of looking saying. Oh, look at that guy. He's having a really hard time. He must be, you know, having lots of mental health problems. Instead of saying oh, he's sharing the truth of what mental health issues look like and it's OK. Because now we can reach. OK, you know what do you need to go for lunch? Do you need to do this to those that we love? And so. I wish more people were honest like that.
Cari: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I talk about with my interpersonal communication students, we have a whole unit on social media. Is that one of the leading causes of heart disease and the leading cause of early death is social isolation. So, if we can use social media as a way to connect with other people in a way that creates opportunities for in person connection, then it's a really amazing resource and that's where the connection has to happen, right? If we're feeling isolated in our personal lives, it's easy to feel even more isolated. If we're just seeing everything that's happening on social media. But if you're able to say oh. This person is struggling or on the flip side, wow, this person looks like they're having an amazing experience. I want to reach out to them and make that in person connection. That becomes a really powerful and even lifesaving tool.
Hilary: We can debate social media for a long time, trust me, I have some strong opinions on this. So, we are we are having this podcast in. This is a timely sense for when. We're having this because it is September and so there is something beautiful in September, so. What do we get to advocate on behalf of in September.
Cari: So, September is Suicide Awareness Prevention Month, so not that we're preventing suicide awareness, but we're trying to prevent. Suicide by raising awareness and we have a lot of events going on around the state and that's also what our podcast is focusing on today.
Hilary: Yeah. So, this idea of like. Being able to talk about the tough things. That's what we want. To do because we want to open up these conversations, we want to be able to have these have these tough moments where we can help each other and help ourselves to become a little bit more aware as to what it takes to prevent, like you said, suicide. So, let's talk about some of these are the reasons why individuals shy away from having this topic, why is it so hard for us to talk about suicide. And what tends to draw people away from having open and honest conversations about it.
Cari: Yeah. So, there are two things that come to mind when you ask this question. The first is stigma. It's a word that we throw around a lot. It's the word that we hear, especially talking about mental health. But what the literal meaning of stigma. The roots that it comes from, it means to mark. And so, as a society, we have marked suicide as a topic that we should sweep under the rug that we should keep behind closed doors. That is a very private thing. And so, we feel afraid to talk about it for fear of being marked as different or marked as weird or even crazy. Some of these stigmatizing words that we use.
Hilary: OK.
Jen: I'm just thinking I. I mean been in. This field for a long time, so I feel like I'm fairly comfortable talking about suicide. Front of adults. When I have to mention it in front of children, it's like a whisper. That I tend to go to because I don't want them to hear or I don't want their parents to think, oh, you shouldn't be saying this in front of my child. But I'm really thinking, I should probably stop doing the whisper. I mean, it's not a bad thing to talk about suicide in front of kids. Now do I need to give all of the details of how what happened? No, but they need to hear it.
Cari: Absolutely. Well and I think that there's also this sense that we've developed. If I talk about this, it's going to give people ideas and so people are afraid of bringing up the word because they think, oh, well, if I say the word suicide, then maybe this person who's struggling is suddenly going to have these suicidal thoughts. But the good news is the research doesn't back that up. Our. Our research that we've read that we teach in mental health first aid indicates that actually talking about suicide and saying the word suicide reduces the risk. And that it helps people who are struggling to bring that dark place that they're in into the light, and they have this sense of, oh, this person that I'm talking to is willing to talk about this. They don't have to; they aren't stigmatizing me. They aren't putting me in this place where I'm not allowed to use this word. I can describe what I'm feeling and if they aren't having those thoughts, it's not going to make them suddenly have those thoughts.
Hilary: You know, working in the area of child abuse prevention, I think we see that same thing and parents are often fearful of you know. If you start talking to kids about child abuse. You're planting the seed that they wouldn't have thought of otherwise, and. We don't necessarily want these ideas in their head that wouldn't have been in there if it had not been for. Introducing this concept but. I often try to remind parents that, you know, just like in school, as we prepare children for fire drills and for earthquake drills and even nowadays for lockdown drills in case there's an active shooter. Are those things scary? Yes, they are. But the reality is, is that for many children. That may be something that they encounter in their life. And we want to help them be made aware, but also to prepare them so that if that time comes where they may need to use those preventative skills that they know how to help themselves but. Also help they know how to help other people as. Well, too, I think that's important, you know my daughter. It was funny because not funny it was interesting because she deals with anxiety herself and I remember working with her clinician and. She had some anxiety related to COVID and as a mom it was my natural reaction to kind of shy away from conversations related to COVID because I was afraid, they would make her more fearful. So, we just wouldn't talk about it. You know, if it was, if it was on the news, we'd turn off the TV. If it was on the radio, we turn down the volume because we didn't necessarily want her to be involved. And that. But I remember her, her therapist saying, you know. Especially for kids with anxiety. If they don't know the truth, then they find a way in their little minds to create that story on their own. Which, if these are young children, that story is bound to be inaccurate, and so I feel like with a situation like this with suicide helping children to understand. Children and people in general to understand. Here's the facts. And here's what we know will help and giving them that accurate story. Rather than having them come up with information on their own.
Jen: Because I think when we do. Like, I'm just thinking as you're explaining that of turning everything off, not talking about it. And I'm like, what in my adult brain would that equates to? And I'm thinking, well, I would think that there's something scary going on and lots of times we forget that kids think the exact same way times 10 sometimes. So, talking about it, yeah. But I do completely understand ours. Ohh, let's not talk about it. Yeah. Because I don't want to give her more information or ideas. That are really. Is the information that is helping reduce the anxiety, or knowing that they can go to a safe place a safe person to talk about their feelings?
Cari: And I think it's really important as we have these conversations, especially with children that we start using in the field we call it safe language, but changing the ways that we discuss suicide. In the past, people associate suicide with the word commit. They commit suicide. But the problem with commit is that there are essentially 3 associations that we have. With that word, you can commit a crime. You can commit a sin, or you can commit to a relationship. And none of those things are what we want children and adults to be associating with what happens in suicide. If a child feels like, you know, they're 10 years old. They're struggling with these feelings. But oh, if I talk about this, does that mean that I'm committing a sin? Does that mean that I'm going to go to jail because I'm committing a crime? And if we can change that to say, you know, these are experiences that you're having. These are feelings that you're having, and we take away that idea of commit and change it instead to your having thoughts about this or this person died because of this. Then we start to talk about it as what it is, which is a sickness. And the sickness is something that we can address, whereas a crime or a commitment to a crime or to a sin is something that we punish. And so, we really want to change that.
Hilary: Like I've never thought about it that way. But you're right, we do often use the term committed. Committed suicide. Somewhat would be the more correctly of appropriate term to use? And if that's the case?
Cari: Yeah. So, if we're talking about, you know, it hasn't happened, but you're thinking about it then rather than saying you're thinking about committing suicide, it's you're thinking about suicide or you're thinking about killing yourself. And you know, if we lose a person rather than saying they committed suicide, we'd change it to they died by suicide.
Hilary: Ok, So I'm imagining. A mom like myself who is listening. Listening to this podcast and thinking I have young children, I have teens. I have adult children and I've never had this conversation before with my kids and I need to do that. Where would one start what? What should that conversation include? How do we make? How do? We make that a successful conversation with our kids?
Cari: So, I think a really important place to start is just by and you know something that we talk about on the podcast all the time, which is teaching children to recognize and share the feelings that they're experiencing. And mental health thrives in isolation. Or I should say, mental health challenges thrive in isolation. And so, if children feel like they're having these feelings and they don't know how to share them or are afraid to share them. Same with adults. It makes it worse. So, we want to start from the very beginning, saying, oh, I can tell that you're sad about this. Let's talk about that. What are you feeling? And if we can get to a culture as a society where it's OK to have feelings of sadness where it's OK to be struggling, then we can unpack those deeper, maybe darker things that might be going on and eventually creating a climate where if someone is struggling, if a child is struggling, they'll be will succumb to their parent and say this is really hard and I don't know what to do with it. And then, as a society, we also want to move toward treating mental health challenges as the same way that we would treat a physical illness. There's this sense of you should get over it. You should just be positive. Just, you know. Yeah. Do these things. Check these boxes. Just exercise more and you'll feel better. And you know those self-help things that we do can be really helpful. But if someone you know their appendix exploded, we wouldn't tell them, oh, just suck it up, just get better, right. We take them to the hospital and the doctors would be able to help them. And so, we want to have that. Same idea about mental health challenges. Hey, this is a sickness. But guess what? We can treat sicknesses; we can go to doctors. We can do these self-help things. There are all of these resources to help you feel better and you can feel better.
Jen: I think emotional regulation is so important, and that is one thing that we're seeing. With kids is. They're not knowing how to regulate their own emotions, and so they're having this, and that's also part of that is understanding your feelings and being able. To put correct words with it. Being able to talk about it. And so, it's a big thing that, I mean, we're seeing here at The Family Place that parents are really wanting their kids to learn how to do this because if the pendulum went too far one way and whatnot. But we need to get back to talking about feelings and regulating our emotions.
Hilary: You know, I remember it was probably when I was taking my son to his middle school for his for his yearly like Doctor Visit for middle school. And one of the things that they do as part of that. After visit as they have your teen, your preteen fills out the questionnaire regarding feelings and suicide and you know, have you ever felt this way? Have you ever felt hopeless and lost? And like you don't have anything to look forward to. And I believe in that questionnaire. It uses the terminology of suicide and. And that was the first time, I had noticed I may not say that I go every single year. To those well child checkups, so. Maybe it was before that. But that was the first time. I noticed them giving him that form and having him fill it out and I remember watching him fill it out and then he turned to me. And he said, mom, what exactly is this asking? Me and. It was such a great opportunity for me to say let's talk about this. Like let's talk about what it's asking you on this board. Let's talk about what this means, and let's talk about why it's important for you to have this understanding. At this age. And I was like. Kudos to these doctor's offices, now that they're recognizing that not only are we here to take care of your physical health. But we're here to take care of your mental health too, but I love that they gave. Me a very. A teachable moment for my child. Where? I could have easily said I'll just. I'll just fill it. Out. Don't worry about it. You know? And brush it aside like we can to do. But instead, they gave them this opportunity to say all right. Let's have a conversation. About this and let me answer any questions that you have that it's asked. Taking you on this forum. I thought it was great.
Jen: And I think and doctors are coming, becoming more aware of Aces, which is adverse childhood experiences, and understanding that mental health is part of that or living in a home where there's mental health and making sure that. They are screening for those. Things so that they can get them the proper resources.
Hilary: So unlike. A physical ailment where I can clearly see that. My child has a cut or a. Bruise or, or maybe even a broken. I'm assuming it may not be as easy to recognize some of the signs and symptoms associated with a with a mental illness. So, what we as a community? What are some of those signs that we can watch out for and be made aware of?
Cari:Yeah, that's a really great point. So first and foremost, we just want to look for. Changes in behavior, and particularly emotional responses that seem out of the ordinary or maybe larger or more flat than we would expect for a certain situation. So, it really starts with being aware of the people around you as a parent being aware of, how does your child normally respond to situations that arise? And are there responses different? Are they seeming emotionally flat in a way that they normally wouldn't be, or are they seeming more angry, more sad, more extreme than they usually would be? Are they showing the same level of interest in things that they've always enjoyed, or is that changing? That's a really important warning sign for depression is things that normally fill you up, bring you joy. You don't care about in the same way anymore. Are they responding to life with enthusiasm and are their emotions appropriate for the situation? You know, if their best friend moves across the country, we would expect them to be sad. Mental health, that would be a normal response. But you know, two months down the road, are they still crying every day because they miss their friend or have, they withdrawn from their other friends? Seeking alone time. We really want to be aware of any signs that they're withdrawing from friends, from family, from life, as well as those emotional change. Physically, you might notice things like they're not taking care of themselves the way that they usually would, or conversely, that they're paying much more attention that they're extremely meticulous about. I have to look this way. I have to do this thing. Those are some of the things that I would suggest starting with.
Jen: You said to get to know how your kids look when they're having different emotions and there's this great handout, I'll have to remind them to attach it. But it's called being a feelings detective. So, it's just this. Handout that goes through. Happy, sad, angry. You know, several other feelings of. What are characteristics that my child shows? What body languages are they showing when they are having these emotions, so that yes you, it's kind of funny that you're sitting there taking notes about it. But when you do come to these situations and you're like. I've watched that I've taken 5 minutes out of my day to sit and watch my child when they're really happy and noticing those different things. So, I love that handout and I love that parents have that opportunity to sit back and really see what my kids feel like in these feelings.
Hilary: Well, and I love that it brings it. I think sometimes when we think about suicide prevention, we think about, you know, rallying together thousands of troops, you know, thousands of people to March down, you know, Center St. in Logan. And I don't think it needs to be that big. I think, suicide prevention looks like. Knowing my child, having a conversation on a consistent basis, spending time with them, being aware of what's going on at school. To me that seems much more manageable than saying. I'm going to put together a protest. That's going to occur this weekend. And so, I love that. It takes it down to a smaller scale. But to me, I'm like I can work on that. I can focus in on that and that's where the power lies.
Jen: Yeah. So, we've talked about family and kids, but I know, and this may have not been. A prep question. But veterans we know within our country that that is a huge problem. So, what can we do there? Just the same kind of ideas or. They just feel like these people have given up so much of their time for all of us, we need to make sure that they are safe.
Cari: Absolutely. And in my work with veterans and the research that I've read, one of the things that I've understood is that, you know, every veteran has a unique experience and that often one of the things they struggle with the most when they come home is feeling like nobody understands. Nobody else is there. Nobody else gets it. But just as with any other person experiencing this, it's that social isolation that creates big problems, right? So, we want to try and get them to community groups. There are a lot of really amazing social support groups for veterans where they come together. Where you know, even though their experiences aren't exactly the same, they have that shared bond of we've been out there, we've seen what it's like. And so, we can rally together for support. And then bringing in those family and medical supports as well, so that to the extent that's possible, these veterans are realizing, OK, I have my comrades who are going through similar things trying to figure this out. I have my family, who's trying to understand, trying to help. And then also these medical professionals who are trained to help me work through these feelings.
Jen: I mean, my dad was in the military for 26 years or so. Just grateful that he never had to go to any type of war or anything like that but having a deep appreciation for that community. Just we need to let them know that we're here to help them too. I mean, they've gone so far to help us, giving their lives or giving years to fighting. Let me help you.
Cari: Absolutely. And you know, just putting another plug in for our Mental Health First Aid program, we have a section that is specific to veterans and their families. So, if you're listening to this and going OK, I have someone in my life and I know that they're struggling and they're veterans, but I don't know how to help them specifically. We train for that. And we train for what are these veterans experiencing? How can we talk about mental health with them? How can we get them to appropriate resources?
Hilary: Let's talk about next steps. Let's say that that we are aware of someone that may be dealing with depression or suicide or, or maybe that person is ourself. What's the first step that we can take to ensure the safety of that individual?
Cari: Yeah, absolutely. So, what I'll start with, if you notice it in someone else. So, the first thing, and probably the hardest thing, is we have to ask the question. And as a society, once again, because we're so afraid of using the word suicide, we say things like. Are you thinking of hurting yourself or you aren't going to do something dumb are you?
Jen: Beating around the Bush.
Cari: Yes exactly, but in our training, we talk about, and I'll emphasize here. We need to use the actual word. Are you thinking about suicide or are you thinking about killing yourself? And that's an intimidating question to ask. It's much easier to beat around the bush because it's scary to use that word. It's scary to think that someone that you care about could be going through such a dark experience. But we really need to use that word and I was asked the other day. OK, well, why can't we just say, are you thinking of hurting yourself? And the problem with it is that there is another branch of mental health challenges known as non-suicidal injury. And we also call it self-harm. And so, if you ask someone if they're thinking of hurting themselves, they might think of it in terms of, well, am I going to go cut or burn myself? No, I'm thinking about killing myself. And also, sometimes when they're thinking about killing themselves, the methods that they're thinking of using won't be painful. And so, if we use the words, are you thinking about hurting yourself? We might skirt completely around what they're actually thinking and feeling.
Jen: Yeah, I don't want to hurt myself. I want the hurt to go away. And so, I'm thinking of a way to getting to stop
Cari: Yeah. Yeah, because people who are having these experiences. The vast majority don't want to die. That's not what they're looking for. What they're looking for is a way to end the pain. And the pain that they're experiencing just seems unbearable. So, we want to bring that out, we want to say I'm so sorry that you are. Experiencing this pain? Let's carry it together. Let's get the resources that we need. So, once we can ask the question, of course, our conversation is going to depend on their response. But if they say. You know what? Yes, I am having these thoughts. That can be a really terrifying moment for you. Right? OK. I had to work up all of this courage just to ask the question. And now, yes, they are actually experiencing this.
Jen: That is where breathing comes in on our own side.
Cari: Yeah. And we might forget to breathe. You just kind of freeze up in that moment. Like, snap. What do I do now? Or some people will also have the tendency to have a huge reaction to it. But neither of those are going to be helpful. We don't want to create a medical emergency ourselves by forgetting to breathe, and if we have a huge emotional reaction then what it tells that person is, oh, there's something really wrong with me or I need to focus on helping this person instead of dealing with what they are experiencing. So, something that we talk about is you want to be like a duck swimming in the water. If you look at a duck, they are so calm, so serene, just gliding. But if you could see under the water, those little feet are kicking as fast as they possibly can. And so that's what we want to be like. Inside, you might be freaking out. But on the outside, we want to invite the kind of response that will be reassuring to this person.
Jen: Practice a poker face.
Cari: Yeah, practice taking those deep breaths. Practicing. Wow. I'm so sorry to hear that. Let's talk about it. Be curious. Ask more. Because if they are having those thoughts, then we want to find out, OK, where are they in their planning stages? We'd ask them at that point. Do you have a plan? Do you have a timeline? Do you have the means that you would use for this? And at any point, if they are saying yes, I'm having these thoughts. We want to make sure that we're getting them to professional help. But especially if they're saying yes, I have a timeline. Yes, I have a plan. Yes, I have the means. We need to treat that as a medical emergency and call for emergency services immediately or take them straight to the hospital. Time in these moments, it's especially important that we don't leave them alone. Sometimes even just the space of a few minutes, someone may say yes, I'm having this and if we say OK, I'm going to go get resources. They might choose that time to take action, so as soon as they tell us, yes, I'm experiencing this, we want to stay with them and get them directly to the resources.
Hilary: And tell us a little bit more about the resources. Where should we go to get that help?
Cari: So as with any medical emergency, you can call 911 and if you choose that route, it's particularly helpful to ask for a mental health professional if they have one. Sometimes they have people. Who are trained specifically to deal with suicidal ideation or behavior. Who can come respond.
Jen: So that's like our police force. Some of them are specifically trained in mental health?
Cari: Yes, yeah, yeah, we have.
Jen: Because I'm just thinking, a regular police officer. If they have the means to do it right there, it's going to become this big thing. But if there's someone a police officer that's trained and. It'll be a completely different picture.
Cari : Absolutely, absolutely. And a resource that I really want to highlight is new. It's the number 988 and this is a national suicide prevention number. It's available 24/7. You can call or text. So, 911 you might use if you need, you know, if someone has attempted suicide. And we need help immediately. Whereas 988 is you have this conversation with someone, and they say, you know what, yeah, I'm having these thoughts. I don't have the means with me right now, but I am thinking about it. We'd call 988 and they can talk us through that moment. They can tell us. OK, we should call 911 now. We should go to the hospital. We should engage in, you know, whatever strategies are needed for that moment.
Hilary: And if this is an individual that says I don't have a plan, I'm just having a really hard time right now. I am dealing with a lot of really tough stuff. What is the best way to help an individual in that stage?
Cari : Yeah, absolutely. So, any time that a person hints or says explicitly that they're having these sorts of thoughts, we want to treat it very seriously. So, we will want to make, we call it a safety plan with them, OK, can I hold on to your gun until you're feeling safe? What resources would you need to feel supported? It can be a time when we can bring in. Those professional resources, because you know, they're saying I'm having a really hard time. Well, it might not be. High suicide risk at that point, but if they're experiencing depression, if they're experiencing anxiety, those are things that we would want to treat anyway. So, we want to refer to those professional resources. And really helps them feel that they have choices and that they have the ability to recover and move forward. Having been through my own struggle in the past with having some of these thoughts, there really was this point of feeling like there's nothing to look forward to. There's, you know, there's no hope. It's never going to change and that's something that we really want to help address. Hey, you know what? This is really hard right now. We have resources and recovery is possible and you don't have to feel this way forever, and you don't have to be alone as you're experiencing this. Each of those reassurances are really powerful as we tried to help the person think about a future where they do feel better, where they have the resources and also are, you know, back to pursuing their dreams, pursuing their relationships.
Jen: I think my husband has a suicide survivor and so. He shares his story. Whenever he can, he's done the. I'm still here video series of the Family Place is done, and he always says at the end of his presentations, when we go out and do them. He says, you know, if I had succeeded on that day, I wouldn't have. My 2 beautiful girls. I wouldn't have met, of course, Jen. You know, going through all of those things and that has really when he gets hard times, he's like ohh I got to remember the good things. The hope that does come. I'm probably going to have a grandbaby in the future, and I want to look towards that grandbaby, and he really focuses on the hope and knowing that there's such great things that are still to come.
Hilary : You've given us a lot of helpful insight and I love this. I love that that this conversation is happening because we kind of close up on time, any last things that you would want to share that you would want our audience to know?
Cari : So, we've spent a good portion of time talking about how to help others who are experiencing this and as Jen has alluded to, I just want to give a message to those who are listening to this who are thinking OK, that's not happening outside me. That's happening inside of me. And to those people, I would say. You know, having been there myself, there is light at the end of this tunnel and you know, making that decision to stay, instead of to end everything. It is a decision that has so many beautiful outcomes. That there are wonderful, glorious, amazing things that maybe you don't see right now that maybe you don't feel right now, but they exist and you can have a beautiful, healthy, amazing life even after having these thoughts.
Jen: That was a great way to end and. I think a great. Way of summing everything up and I really appreciate your time and your vulnerability and just all of the discussion. This is a discussion we need to have on a regular basis with family, friends, kids. Just a regular conversation. If you or someone is having a hard time, do call that number 988 and get the help that you need and deserve and reach out to those that can help you as well. We thank you for listening and we will see you next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place Podcast, if you. You like to reach us. You can at parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org, or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly - The Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is thefamilyplaceutah.org. If you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we’d love to see you there.
Subject Resources:
1. Mental Health First Aid: https://www.mentalhealthfirstaid.org/
2. The Family Place Events for MHFA class information: https://thefamilyplaceutah.org/events/list/
Subject Warnings: Suicide. Suicidal Ideation. Death.
Contact us:
-Email us questions or topic ideas: parents@thefamilyplaceutah.org
-Record questions here: https://anchor.fm/theparentsplace
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