Have you heard of the acronym I.E.P? Do you know what it stands for? I.E.P.s are common when it comes to the world of education but they can also come with a lot of confusion and misunderstandings. Kami and Tyler have both worked in Special Education for many years and are here to guide us through the I.E.P world. Come and dive into a world of understanding I.E.P's
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Jen: Welcome to the Parents Place podcast with Hilary and Jen.
Hilary: Okay. Thanks for being here with us. We have two special guests with us today that I'm really excited to introduce. We have Kami and Tyler, and I'm going to just turn it over to them and let them tell a little bit about what they do in our community and then introduce our topic as to why we're here. So, go ahead, ladies.
Kami: Hi. My name is Kami and I am a preschool special educator, so I teach kids ages 3 to 5. This is my this will be my 17th year teaching preschool special education. I received my undergrad, my bachelor's degree with, severe special education degree with an emphasis in early childhood education. And then a few years ago, I went back and got my master's degree to be like a school admin, administration and leadership masters. So, I love what I do. I love working with little children and kids with all abilities. My classroom is very much a very wide range of kids. And, you know, as we get talking and things like that, I have ranges of kids with maybe more moderate language delays where the child is struggling with some of their language and they need support in the classroom to kids that have like severe cognitive delays. I worked with kids that, you know, are, you know, maybe physically disabled children that are on the autism spectrum. Children's Down syndrome, you know, all those different types of disabilities that you hear, as well as just lots of kids that just have delays, some sort of developmental delay that we're still trying to figure out how we can help them. So anyway, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Tyler: Perfect. All right. I am Tyler. I am a life skills teacher. I currently teach kids grades three through six who have pretty significant cognitive and developmental disabilities. I absolutely love my job. I love working with kids with disabilities. I love just kind of watching the growth that they make year to year. I love that I get to have kids for multiple years to see that grow. I went to Utah State and I graduated with a degree, a bachelor's in special education with an emphasis in multiple profound disabilities. This will be my seventh-year teaching. My first three years of teaching, I was actually a center-based autism teacher. I taught in another state and loved that as well. So yeah, I'm super, super excited to be here to see.
Hilary: Well, you guys know Jen and I have both talked about how much we adore our teachers. I think the world of you guys. So, we're really excited that you're here.
Kami: You think you have.
Hilary: You do such marvelous work. And so, our topic today, there's a lot of things that we could have decided to talk about today when it comes to special education. But we're going to focus on IEPs, which is something that I feel like most everyone has heard of before. They've heard the lingo , they've heard , you know, the acronym. But some people are very well versed in what they are and others maybe have no idea what exactly we're saying when we use these terms and these letters. So, let's start very beginning. So, tell us, what does IEP stand for? What exactly is it in?
Tyler: IEP stands for an Individualized Education Plan. It is a document that explains kind of the special education services that a student requires in order to be successful. Kami does a lot of testing when they initially qualify. Students do have to qualify for a special education plan an IEP plan. So, in order for them to qualify for an IEP, they're evaluated and we look at the services that they do require in order to be successful. So that can be reading , that can be writing math, occupational therapy, speech therapy Really, it's kind of a big special education can be that big umbrella of things.
Hilary: Okay. Okay. So, I've heard terms, I've heard IEP, I've also heard 504. Are those things different? Are they the same? How does that play into it?
Kami: They are very, they are different.
Hilary: Ok so They are really different.
Tyler: Okay, go ahead. So, and a 504 is kind of just a document that the team agrees upon So, a 504 team is different than an IEP team. a504 team is often just their regular education teacher, the parent, and maybe an LEA or like a principal or counselor like that. a 504 is kind of just more, we know that their student has a disability or a need and the five before often just kind of states like the accommodations that are required in order for them to be okay. So, within that general education class, it doesn't provide special education services, it's more just accommodations that everybody agrees that that student requires. So, it could be preferential seating near the hearing can be extended time on assignments, it could be shortened assignments, all of those things then a general education teacher can do within their classroom to help that student be successful. And everybody agrees that that student needs that because they might have they might have a learning difficulty versus a learning disability. They might have OCD just kind of like things like that. Also, students with like medical needs can also qualify for a 504 where they might not necessarily need special education services. They're on grade level, they're progressing at an awesome rate, but they might need some physical assistance with certain things that those things can also go on a 504.
Hilary: Okay, okay, perfect. Okay. Because I know that I’ve heard both. And sometimes, honestly, I don't know the difference between the two of them. So that that helps out a lot. All right. So, you talk about these qualifications, which sounds like there's quite a few.
Tyler: There is, yeah.
Hilary: Tell us a little bit about those qualifications so parents can be aware of what they are.
Kami: Okay. So, a child does have to be tested to be able to qualify for special education. There's 13 different classifications within special education. There's a lot that are very specific. So, there's one that, you know, I'm not going to name all 13, but, you know, specifically autism or specifically developmental delay or speech or language delay or multiple disabilities. You know, so there are they are very specific. And within each classification, there are specific. What's the word, qualifications of the child? Of what? Of what that looks like? They would they might look at specific scores. You know, so you have to have a certain score to then be classified as this specific type of classification, if that makes sense. As well as you have to on some of them have to have a medical diagnosis. So, one topic that I often get asked, especially in young children, is, you know, a young child goes to the doctor and the doctor says your child has autism, let's say. And so that child goes through the process of being diagnosed from a medical professional that they have autism. And so, then the parent comes to us and says, hey , my child has autism. Therefore, they need to be , you know , in special education. That could definitely be the case . But that doesn't automatically get your child the help that they need or that they need that special education. So again, the school then takes the information that the doctor provided, but then we also have to do our own testing and they have to have against specific qualifications to then be eligible for our classroom. So just again, just because a child is labeled or given a disability medically, they have to show a delay in the educational setting, if that makes sense. So typically, you know, again, with myself, I pick up a lot of kids that are three. And so, their parents will say, I have a concern. And so, the parent will go through the process, you know, either through child find, which is like our early intervention, or the parent will just contact our, you know, my supervisor and say, yes, my child has these you know, I have these concerns with my child. We then begin the testing of that child. So, a lot of it for younger children are parents coming to us. But then there are those students that have already been found, whether through medical people or things like that, that we then just get a specific referral saying this child has already been, you know, receiving early intervention. Again, we then have to requalify them to start receiving special education because it is different from early intervention. And that makes sense. So, a child then is re-evaluated every three years to determine if they're still eligible for special education. So that's something that Tyler does a lot. I usually have my kids for about 2 to 3 years, and then I give them onto the next grade level. So maybe you can talk a little bit about like that re-evaluation process.
Tyler: So typically, when you look at qualifying for special education, you do you do an initial evaluation which can look differently. And when we're talking about like evaluations, they're like standardized assessments that we give. And when we do a three-year re-evaluation, we look at previous data, we look, okay, the last three years, here's what they've been working on. Here's their previous scores. Do we feel like these are accurate enough? Oftentimes they're not because it's been three years. Kids can make a lot of growth in three years. So, every three years we typically reevaluate them and we look at what their needs are. So, if they are doing really, really awesome in math, they haven't ever qualified in math. That's probably not something that we're going to assess them in this next like this next evaluation. But if they are still really struggling and reading, we're going to re-evaluate reading. Under those different categories that they can qualify for . I typically teach kids who qualify because they have a pretty significant disability . So, and they typically qualify under other health impairments, other health impairment , intellectual disability or multiple disabilities. So, for those three categories , oftentimes you have to have a cognitive evaluation and you have to have an adaptive, So, an adaptive evaluation often looks at how well can this student like, how well do they access their environment, how independent are they? Can they change their own clothes, can they write their name? Things like that is really just kind of like those functional life skills is more the adaptive. A cognitive is really kind of their IQ. What level are they functioning? Are they understanding different patterns? Can they be they following 1 to 2 step directions, things like that? And then, of course, we often assess like those academics as well, because we are in the education, you know, so we want to make sure that we're evaluating all areas of need and then we take those scores and we have an it's called an eligibility meeting or a re-evaluation meeting. And there are people that are typically required to be there. Those are part of the IEP team. Parents oftentimes forget that they are part of our team. They have a say. They can request things. So, your IEP team does have its typically a special education teacher, a regular education teacher. The parents are part of that IEP team and then you have your LEA, which is kind of a representative. They typically work for the district. They know a little bit more about those laws and things like that , and they're kind of, you are they're an advocate for the parent as well as an advocate, advocate for the student and the teacher and then any other service providers that you would have. So, a speech pathologist, if they require speech and occupational therapist, if they require motor services, things like that. And we all kind of sit down together and have this meeting go over scores and decide. We go through kind of these different checklist and decide are they still eligible for special education after three years, or if it's an initial, are they even eligible to begin with? And then from there, after you develop, after you decide do they qualify, what category do they qualify under? Is it autism, multiple disabilities, whatever it is. Then from there you create an IEP.
Jen: That’s a long process.
Tyler: It is a long process.
Hilary: I was just going to ask, what does help like time frame? How long had a long does that initial process tend to take?
Kami: It can. So legally we have to we have to have the process complete within 45 days of us and you either the parent requesting or whatever the case may be, that we are testing the child, which is an important part, is the parents always have to give permission. So, you know, a student that is maybe, you know, in first year, second grade, and they just are struggling, the school can't just pull the child in and start testing. You know, it is very much parents need to be involved in that process of knowing that their child is going to be evaluated and they have to be okay with it as well as parents. You know, they can have a say in if they have concerns and questions about their child possibly needing special education, all of those things, they are part of that process. And they need to be aware that they that they are able to share their concerns with the team. So once, you know, once that signed document happens of saying, yes, I am okay with my child being tested, then it's a 45-day process, but it's 45 school days.
Hilary: Just a little bit longer.
Tyler: Yeah, it does.
Kami: Yeah obviously, we try and move through it through as quick as we can because the important factor is that the kids, you know, if they need help, they need they need help. So, the quicker we can get them in and get them going. So yeah. Does that answer that question?
Hilary: Yeah. And so, and maybe us as well. For these parents that are curious I'm assuming that this testing usually happens at the school, free of charge. I mean.
Kami: Yeah absolutely. Yeah, it is. So, I do all of my own testing as far as, you know, what Tyler talks about cognition, adaptive and personal social areas, because obviously, again, younger kids, 3 to 5 we’re really looking at, you know, what are they doing socially with their peers and what does that look like with the adult interaction and those types of things. Once they get into the school age, kindergarten on, there is a school psychologist who does all of the testing that way and then, you know, the designated people in their specialties, like the speech thing, which pathologist does their testing? The occupational therapist would do their testing. So yeah, there's a lot of different people, but all of the testing does get done in the school setting. And again, it's very specific about what areas we're looking at. You know, like Tyler stated, we're not we're not always looking at every area. We're going to look at those areas that are obviously a concern to the parents, obviously a concern to the regular educator, those types of things.
Hilary: Okay. Yeah. And your guys focus is primarily young children, elementary age, but I'm assuming IEPs go through their schooling career.
Kami: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, both Tyler and I, being that we can both teach children with significant needs. Kids can go to the age of 21, and so there's a post-high program. And again, that's for kids that have more of a significant delay. They keep going. It's called a post high program where those kids then learn, you know really a lot of like…
Tyler: It is a lot of vocational skills.
Kami: Yes. Yeah. Life skills, vocational skills , getting them into the community, getting them involved in in work opportunities and stuff up until they're 21.
Tyler: So, through their it's through their 21st year. So, if they'd like turn 22 in like December they'll finish out the school year. So, it's like not like if like December they turn 22, we're not going to be like, all right, you're done. You get to like, they finish out that school year.
Hilary: Okay. Well, so you mentioned a bit back about getting that medical diagnosis. Is that necessary in order to have IEP or can you have an IEP without it?
Kami: Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. So again, you know, autism is like a hot topic. You know, there's a lot of people that have a lot of questions about, oh, is my child this or that or there's these symptoms or the doctor says, you know, there's just all of that. No, absolutely not. So, you know, if you're seeing concerns, you can have that discussion with your doctor. I think that's a great place to start. But, you know, if you just say, yikes, I'm seeing these delays in my child again, especially when they're younger, you know, early intervention is the key. So, getting that opportunity to get somebody that that knows more specifically about working with those kids, getting their eyes on them, and seeing what we can do to help. You know, it doesn't always have to have a medical. You know, there's so many times that the parents come into me as I'm evaluating them and they're just like, “Kami, I just I'm not sure what's wrong.” You know, they're not talking or they're throwing a fit or they seem like that they're always, you know, struggling and life shouldn't be that hard. And if it's that hard, then typically there's maybe something going on and there's help out there for you. You know, you don't you don't have to have a child with a severe, significant disability to get the help.
Tyler: I think it's important too to understand that there is a range of special education. Special education is not like I specifically teach kids who do have like pretty intense cognitive disabilities. But there is also mild moderate, which would be considered resource. Those are kids who maybe just are struggling and reading. My own personal child has had an IEP for the last three years and so because he struggles in reading but he doesn't have a significant disability, he doesn't have a medical diagnosis from a doctor that qualifies him for that. He just he had a learning disability for a little while, you know? And so now, we've, like again, we're re-evaluating every all bike every three years to just make sure that each kid is requiring getting the services that they require in order to be successful. And then once they like kids, can also test out of special education. It's not something that they once they're in, they're in. It's once they're in, they get the services that they need . And we try to close that gap in order for our goal . Our goal with special education is to try to get them as close to grade level as possible so they don't always have to receive those services.
Hilary: Okay.
Jen: Yeah, you may think that my parents never told me I had an IEP. Just reading. I was never good at comprehension. And so, this was a long time ago. Back in the day to where they would take me out of another class to go to a reading class and normally was math. And then I got really good at reading and really bad at math.
Hilary: You just did a flip flop.
Tyler: Interesting.
Jen: That was back in the day so maybe, I don’t know.
Hilary: You bring up a good point though, because I feel like sometimes there is a stigma associated with having an IEP. And so how can we as a community, you know, help to defeat that stigma? Right ? Because it's the IEP are there to help.
Kami: They are. And I think that we've come a long way. You know, like you think back and I think about the kid that was in kindergarten that was getting pulled out with the principal by the ear, you know what I mean? And I was like, I'm getting old, you know? But, you know, you think about how it's changed so much. And so even you saying, like, I got pulled out into this reading room. Now there's so many different levels of tier. You know, you got tier one instruction and you got tier two instruction where there's like, okay, a little bit some more support. And then tier three, you know, all of that has changed so much that that is a positive thing in my eyes for special education because kids are going everywhere in all different directions all day. And it's like maybe this kid is going to that special room for the night and it might not be a special education or it may be a tier two room that they need a little bit more help, you know, and that's what I love about education in general, is we have come a far way of saying we are individualizing so much more for individual kids, even if they're not on an IEP. But overall, I think going back is we are here to help and there should be no shame in having a child on an IEP. They get that extra, extra help that they need to be successful, you know? It's there to help them. So. Yeah.
Tyler: Yeah. I also think something that that I found with my own personal child was I educated him on what it was like. This is, this is a plan to help you be successful. We talked about what who his teachers were and why he went to go see a certain teacher for reading or why he went to go do this. You know, we talked about those things. And I kind of I think that kids also being an advocate for themselves, like I really tried to teach him to be an advocate for himself. If you if you're struggling and you need more time, you need to say, I would like more time, please, you know, and ask for those things. And I think kind of that I think that that understanding for him at least, and for a lot of kids, like he's going into middle school like he's kind of a he's getting up there, you know, so he's like starting to kind of notice what his peers are doing. He's like, wants to be with everybody he wants to. But I think educating him on that was really beneficial for him because then he was like, Oh, I get it now. Like, I understand. So, I think if parents can include them in the IEP processes whenever they feel it's appropriate for them, then I think that that also can kind of help that student be more comfortable advocating for themselves and understanding why they need to advocate for themselves as well.
Hilary: Yeah, that's cool. I have a daughter, I've talked about my daughter on this before, but I have a daughter who is hard of hearing and so she has some special accommodations in her classroom. And she sounds very similar to your child because she wants to be like everybody else. She doesn't necessarily want to be pointed out as the one that needs the special device or as a speaker or that has to sit in front versus sitting in the back with her friends. And it's something we've had to work on. This idea that, you know, it's, you know, we want you to be assertive, we want you to speak up. These people are here to help you and they can't help you if they don't know that you are having a hard time hearing them or not understanding the instruction that they're giving. So, I think that's a powerful piece to remember for parents.
Jen: I just think about how many kids sit wherever they are and they just get used to whatever and they don't advocate for themselves and get the help because not always do parents recognize it.
Kami: Right, Right. That's true.
Hilary: So, let's say that we have a parent that is listening and thinking, okay, this sounds like a great solution for my child. What are the first steps? Do they go to their principal? Do they go to their teacher? What are those initial steps that they should take?
Kami: Okay. So, let's talk about when they're young. And I kind of I kind of touched on that a little bit. So, if you're working with a child that's younger, let's say, before they're three and you're like, oh, I'm concerned my child isn't walking, or maybe they're not babbling or they're not talking or they're not sitting up or something like that. Most communities have some sort of early intervention program. So, the best place would probably be to talk to your doctor and your doctor would be able to maybe get you that help. Right here in Cache Valley it's called the Up to three Program. It's through Utah State University. So again, if it's before they're three and you're saying, Oh, I'm concerned that that's probably the direction you would go, like get some sort of early intervention. Then once they turn three from 3 to 5, again, there's a program in most communities where you again, the parent is the advocate for their child just because they're not having a general education teacher that says, oh, I'm concerned. So, you again, is the mom or dad need to be that advocate. So, you would contact your district and ask about the early childhood program within your school district and they would be able to put you in the right direction. And specifically, if it was something special education, you would want to mention that because there's a lot of programs that just have preschool programs that it's just like my child needs to be in preschool to get them ready for kindergarten. That looks different than a special education preschool program. And so being specific with that person would be beneficial for that. So that's my specific area. And then once they get into school age, Tyler , I'll kind of let you talk about that.
Tyler: So, once they get into school age, then they will be like they will have a general education teacher. Oftentimes this general education teacher is kind of keeping track of a lot of those and a lot of those things for you as a parent, but also just be aware, like if you're if you see that your student is struggling and your teacher hasn't said something, then you would go to your general education teacher and they would kind of be paying attention to these things. So, once they kind of, once you’re kind of passed that up to three year in school, you’re kind of noticing that struggle. Your general education teacher will typically take a few steps. They'll start to provide some simple accommodations within their classroom to try to build that success. Maybe that's extra time, preferential seating, just kind of those really, really simple accommodations. They might, Kami talked a little bit about tiered instruction, and so tier one is kind of that whole group instruction that all kids receive in first grade, second grade, whatever it is. Tier two is, where you kind of look at those kids levels a little bit differently and then you kind of pair them into groups. So, we do like lots and lots of tier two reading group. And so, these kids maybe are reading at a lower first grade level. So, they're going to be paired and go to this group to kind of build those reading skills. These kids maybe are reading at a very, very high first grade level. So, they're going to kind of. Be paired together to challenge them. That's where that tiered instruction comes in. If students still are not kind of making the growth that you want to be seeing at that tier two, then they'll be presented. So, each different kind of each district calls it something different. So, it could be a tag team, it could be a SAT team. Pretty much it's a team of educational professionals like teachers, special educators that meet together. We look at data purely around a student, we look at data, we take them to this team and we say, okay, I have this student that we have provided these accommodations or we've tried these groups, we've tried these different things. We're still not making the growth that we want to see. So, then this team kind of gets together. We look at the data, we look at where we were, where the growth that we're making, we're not making whatever it may be, and we offer suggestions for things that need to be done. After that, we can decide if we try all of the suggestions, we take all of the data. We're still not making a cut. We're still not making great growth with the accommodations that are put in place, then that's kind of where a referral is sent to special education. And then then we kind of a referral list and then a permission to test the student for special education. And then we go kind of into that whole evaluation process from there.
Hilary: Okay.
Jen: So, I have a question. Just because of what we do here, we do a lot deal with a lot of trauma and we know that ADHD can or those who have experienced trauma can kind of show itself as ADHD symptoms. So, I'm just wondering and I know that individuals that have trauma, a lot of trauma can have some of those delays just because of the trauma that they've experienced. Have you ever dealt with anything like that? Do you ask those kinds of questions of trauma, past trauma, things like that?
Kami: I have worked with a lot of kids with trauma, and I like being that I work with younger children. I have more of a connection with families that, you know, like the whole, you know, which I think Tyler does, too. Just because she has, you know, a smaller class size where she's able to have more connection, I guess, with families. So, some of those questions and that that conversation happens. And then we you know, we do have services, you know, for older student, you know, any age group of kids that if trauma is part of that, if it's within special education we have social groups you know that that help with social anxiety or social behavioral stuff that we can work specifically with kids on an IEP for that, or even if the child's not on an IEP and they've just had trauma in their life Again, I think education in general has come a far way that we have a school counselor, you know, within every school we have like within, again, our community we have Bear River Mental Health. They come into our schools once and once a week and provide services to kids that are struggling with trauma and stuff like that. So, there are so many resources, you know, so if you're if you're a family out there that your child has dealt with something challenging, again, not special education wise, but they've got anger or frustration or something like that, you know, ask those questions and there are people there to help and to, you know, to have those discussions with the kids to give them the support they need.
Tyler: I also think that just education as a whole has kind of come a long way. I know that I've taught for a few different districts in every district kind of that I've taught for at least does offer trauma informed, like the trainings that they offer to teachers. So, it's like I think just as a whole, education is kind of shifting towards trauma informed care. So, you see a kid that's angry it’s no longer go to the principal's office . It's more looking okay. Like , did you have breakfast today? Like, what do you need? Like, why are you upset? Kind of asking those questions instead of just jumping towards those? Like go to the principal's office or you need to go sit out in the hallway/. Things like that. With teachers just as a whole are making that shift. I feel like at least that they are making that shift towards kind of looking , looking at those smaller pieces that could be contributing to some of those like anger issues or attention, things like that
Jen: I was just going to say we've had a lot of families that are like they're getting in trouble because they're not reading on their level or whatever or not getting in trouble. I guess that's the word.
Kami: But they're just struggling.
Jen: But they're struggling on reading. And it's not because they may have a disability or anything , it's just that. They've been sexually abused or there's domestic violence or whatever. So, of course, you know, when you have those kinds of things happen within your lives. You're not going to be paying attention to school.
Kami: Right. And so that's just it goes back to whether they're you know, if they're with the family that that that they were part of that trauma or maybe they're in like a in a home, you know, temporary, that type of thing. I think that communication is so important. And I think that's kind of what I was going back to you. I'm so grateful that I have such a great relationship with my parents, you know, because I do see other teachers that I'm on that tag team that Tyler was just talking about. And sometimes I'll sit I'll ask a question to a teacher. I'll be like, Well , have you talked to Mom ? It's like, well no, you know, and it just as important is that teacher needs to have that relationship with the parent. The parent needs to have that relationship with the teacher. And it goes both ways and is so key. So, if you have a child in your home, whether you know, you guys worked to get your child back in your home or you're working with a child that is in a different, you know, from a different home, whatever that that looks like having that communication with the teacher and letting them be aware of where this child is from. And now where we want this child to come is so crucial. And I'm so grateful that I that I had that good communication with my parents because it does make a huge difference on that daily interaction that I have with the child.
Jen: And If your child has gone through just recently a big life event of, you know, a divorce or remarriage or things like, right, tell your teachers so that they know, so that they're not like, oh, we need to get this child tested or, you know, this child's being a stinker or whatever the case may be. It's oh, they're dealing with some really hard thing, right?
Kami: Absolutely. And we and again, those interventions and those supports can happen, whether it's a special education setting or a general educator, that that is more aware of those student’s individual needs.
Tyler: I know that as an educator those things are really beneficial for me to know because I typically ask those questions, but if I kind of know the answer to those questions, I, I will like I don't I don't ask the kid about their trauma or anything like that, but I'll ask it. Did you have breakfast today or something like that? But if a parent says like, Hey, they're not eating breakfast here, I can go through those steps and like, I can make sure that they have breakfast in my classroom. I can make sure, like if they're uncomfortable with a certain situation. And I know that beforehand, if they don't like to be touched and I'm a high fiver, you know, I can be like , all right, man, and we can do thumbs up instead, like things like that. Just being able to know those things, especially like I teach a lot of kids who are nonverbal and who maybe can’t answer those questions for me. So, if I know those things kind of when they come in or as they happen or things like that, that that helps me be a better teacher for that student.
Hilary: So besides having the open and honest dialogue, what else can parents do to kind of strengthen that team? Anything else they can do to help in that process?
Kami: That's a great question . I really, I really think just, you know, being part of that team, you know, and feeling part of that team and asking those questions, you know, I love it when a parent comes in and we're having an IEP and I say, this is kind of what I want to do with your child. And these are the goals that I'm thinking about and that not that that parent argues with me. You know, it's always it's always good to have a good conversation. But I appreciate when the parent says. But tell me a little bit more about that or those questions. And they really, they're really there to give that feedback to me. I love that team feel and I love to see how much they care about their kid . And so, yeah, I would definitely just say truly having a voice and asking those tough questions and advocating for their child and trying to think of other things.
Tyler: I also think, something like something that happens a lot just in IEP and special education just as a whole. No matter where you go. There are so many acronyms. IEP, LEA, IDEA. There are three right off the bat. If somebody throws out inaccurate acronym and you're like, I'm not sure what that means, ask just say, Hey, I'm not sure what that means because sometimes as special educators, we have so many IEP that we do. And so sometimes we just are we just are kind of on a roll, right? We're going and we're talking. And then a parent like, I don't ever want a parent to feel lost because it gives them a lot of information when you're having a re-evaluation or when you're having an IEP and you're going over goals and you have to talk about least restrictive environment like all of these things, it's a lot of information. So, if you don't understand something, please make sure that you understand and like if you like, ask a question so that we can we can make sure that we are providing the services that you also would like to see happen. And you don't kind of feel like, well, I guess they've got it. You know, you understand like what the plan is. You're participating in that. And I want them to be like, I really want them to work really, really hard on reading this year. Can we try to go can we bump that that goal up a little bit or, you know , things like that advocate and be a participant, but also advocate for yourself. If you don't know something, ask.
Hilary: Yeah , that's so helpful. I'm just thinking of my own experience. My daughter was diagnosed later in life and so we were dealing with essentially the trauma of her diagnosis and trying to figure out what exactly her life was going to look like. And then we get, you know, 504 thrown at us. And I remember seeing in those initial appointments thinking, I have no idea what this is even all about. And, you know, we're just maneuvering this new world. And I think a lot of people, a lot of parents that maybe have a new diagnosis for their child and are still trying to figure out what exactly that part of their life is going to look like. And now we throw on this IEP, and I love that idea of saying, hold on, wait a second.
Kami: Right! Asks some questions.
Hilary: Giving more information about being out here, what exactly will that look like? Think that's so powerful.
Jen: Yeah, I always love the question. Are there other questions I should be asking? Yeah, Yeah. Because sometimes we don't we don't know the questions.
Hilary: Right? Yeah, exactly.
Kami: Yeah . Building that relationship is, is so crucial. And , and it does, it goes on in both ways. You know, the teacher and the parents know it can be very powerful for the child as well. So yeah.
Hilary: And ladies, you speak on behalf of our area here, but I'm assuming a lot of this will look very similar throughout our nation. Is that right?
Kami: Yeah, Yeah, we they're yeah, for the most part. Yeah. Right
Tyler: I would say like district to district, state to state, what they might call their programs, what they might so like here, severe special education may be called severe special education on life skills. Significant support means that's something else they heard. So, some of those terms might change kind of what the classrooms look like, the way that they group kids might be a little bit like that. But overall, the general process is the same. Like I like that, you know, like it's the law, you know, like we have to follow that law no matter what state you're in. It is the special education process is the same.
Kami: And truly, you know, again, going back to that nationwide is we're looking at the least restrictive environment for your child, you know , and so there is so many different levels to give your child what they need in the least restrictive environment. So, year.
Tyler: And least restrictive, I think sometimes often that gets kind of, that kind of gets misinterpreted . Sometimes the least restrictive environment often means what are the supports that your student needs in order to be successful with their peers? So, for some students who have a significant disability, this life skills classroom, where it's kind of a self-contained special education classroom, and we go to where we go out to general education for some things like lunch, recess, prep, science, social studies, a lot of like that, hands on learning. Those things are going to be kind of like that might be that student's least restrictive environment. But for a student and resource that would be their most restrictive might. What we don't want to do that. We want to make sure that they are with their peers as much as possible, but in a way that they can access that environment. You don't want to put a student who is nonverbal and unable to identify letters who's in fifth grade. You don't want to put them in a fifth-grade reading group. That's not their least restrictive environment. Right?
Hilary: Okay. Oh, man. Like, my eyes are open to that This has been so helpful, ladies. I really think that there's been so much information that has been shared I think we're running out of time. But any final thoughts on what I'm imagining our listeners out there, particularly their parents? Any final thoughts, pieces of advice that you would offer for them, whether their child has an IEP or maybe whether they are considering that that is a path that they should take?
Kami: Yeah. I think the biggest thing, you know, and I spoke about it a lot is just is being the advocate for your child you know and asking those hard questions and feeling like that you're part of that team again whether it's an IEP team or just your child's education team being that advocate communicating your concerns, you know asking those questions if you don't know, find a neighbor or a community member that can help you through that path. I'm trying to think of anything else. You know, Tyler touched a little bit on just like the legal. The legal aspects of special education. Parents have a lot of rights in special education. And so, asking for…
Tyler: Like your procedural safeguard. Like your documents Just know your rights. Know your rights. Communicate. Ask the questions. Just know as a parent that you do have rights. You know you do have rights and your child has rights. And so just make sure that you know what those are. And if you don't if you don't know something, ask the questions.
Kami: Yeah because they are there to help.
Jen: So, well, awesome. Thank you so much for coming and joining us on our podcast. We really appreciate it. Gave us a wealth of knowledge. Lots of things to think about. We appreciate you joining us and we'll see you next week.
Thank you for listening to the Parents Place podcast. If you would like to reach us , you can at parents@theFamilyPlaceUtah.org or you can reach Jen on Facebook. Jen Daly - the Family Place. Please check out our show notes for any additional information. Our website is TheFamilyPlaceUtah.org. If you're interested in any of our upcoming virtual classes, we'd love to see you there.
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